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philb
05-31-2019, 12:02 PM
Hi Guys,
As luck would have it, got bit by the slow build.
Purchased an AF-Pilot 7 years ago, but just got around to flying 6 months ago.

Never worked out of the box despite in the field trouble shooting. Sent it back to TT - they say at a minimum $300 to replace an analog board, but likely would need a $700 "major".

So, given that the AF-Pilot is not even made any more, not sure I should throw money down that hole, but then I guess the option is throwing another $2000 to upgrade to a vizion after a previous $3500 boat anchor.

Does anybody have a sense of the build of the vizion - repair issues, reliability? If it was truly a "plug and play" replacement, might be tempted, but if I had to do any work, servo replacement, whatsoever, I might steer clear in favor of another manufacturer. Troubleshooting experience not stellar.

Phil Barnette
RV-10
Bountiful, Utah

Bugsy
05-31-2019, 12:36 PM
I like my AF pilot. Finally figured out why it wasn’t always predictable. The new AFS 5000 series need a dedicated serial port connected to AF pilot. Now that it’s wired the way the EFIS wants it the integration is phenomenal. It’s nice to be able to look at the autopilot and see the word coupled or flagged giving me a definitive that the autopilot has the approach in hand. On an LNAV+V I have seen GS Flagged on the AF pilot. I let it fly the approach anyway and sure enough it wasn't coupled and wouldn’t have been safe in IMC. The EFIS gave me a “good” glide slope. was it really good. Don’t know. The AF pilot convinced me to hand fly it.

BobTurner
05-31-2019, 02:37 PM
If you decide to go the new route (including servos), I can recommend the Trio Pro (and get the speed-modulated auto trim option - worth every penny). I control mine thru a GRT HX but the Trio works fine in stand-alone mode, too (but you need the EFIS to do an ILS).

rleffler
05-31-2019, 02:52 PM
Phil,

Unfortunately, purchasing an unit six years too early, then finding out you have a DOA is really your issue. The vendors clearly state what is the warranty period. I can empathize, I had a similar issue with my GTN-650. I was only a few months over the warranty period and Garmin charged me $975 for the repair.

I upgraded my AFS-Pilot to a Vizion for $1,500 when they first came out. If you can talk to Andrew directly, you may be able to negotiate with him on the pricing due to you're circumstances. Other folks probably don't have the authorization to sell other than list pricing.

I can tell you that the Vizion is tightly integrated with the AFS screens. Mine works as advertised. It is a plug and play solution.

Another alternative that may be less expensive is to switch to the Dynon Servos (you'll need at least two) that are directly connected to the SV-Network. This is assuming that you have 5000 series screens. This isn't an option on 4500s. You won't have a stand alone AP head, which some may consider a risk. However the risk of your EFIS failing is pretty minimal. If you have dual EFIS, the nice thing is that you can reconfig SV network devices on the fly to another EFIS. This combo also gives you the option to fly a desired IAS on the approach. This is the only feature that you can do with the AFS/Dynon combo that you can't do with the Trutrak AP heads.

philb
05-31-2019, 03:38 PM
Thanks Bob!

Totally agree on the warranty- it?s on me, just trying to figure best way forward at this point. I?ve got 2 of the 5600?s so sounds like I?ve got options. The plug and play of a vizion is really attractive if I don?t have to rewire everything or cut out a new panel- I like flying too much to be down for awhile!

I?ll see what the price options are if they?ll sell me just the vizion head. As long as the tech service picks up if I have problems in the future, should be ok. Seems like folks like the TT models.

Phil

RONSIM
05-31-2019, 03:42 PM
I think you will very happy with your AFS screens and the Vizion. (and, I believe, the Vizion is what is used for the Certified aircraft installations, so lots of support down the road.)

Ron

cojaken
06-05-2019, 07:49 AM
Philb, there is a Vizion head for sale in the Classifieds

rleffler
06-05-2019, 12:53 PM
Thanks Bob!

Totally agree on the warranty- it?s on me, just trying to figure best way forward at this point. I?ve got 2 of the 5600?s so sounds like I?ve got options. The plug and play of a vizion is really attractive if I don?t have to rewire everything or cut out a new panel- I like flying too much to be down for awhile!

I?ll see what the price options are if they?ll sell me just the vizion head. As long as the tech service picks up if I have problems in the future, should be ok. Seems like folks like the TT models.

Phil

You will have to change one pin when migrating from the Pilot to the Vizion. Its for support of the blue button, which is a new feature. I don't recall what that pin did on the Pilot, its been too long ago since I upgraded.

Larco
06-05-2019, 03:26 PM
I recommend checking with TT regarding the servos. a couple of upgrades to the vizion done locally required a pitch servo change as part of the upgrade too?

philb
06-05-2019, 03:34 PM
Thanks guys!

Pretty timely that it would post, but TruTrak good to me on the upgrade to a new 385 Flat Pack. New unit with a 3 year warranty at a good price.

They did make sure I knew about the minor wiring for the button, but said my existing servos were compatible. The wiring diagrams look very similar, but we'll see as I get it installed. Some weekend panel work!

Phil

Bugsy
06-05-2019, 06:06 PM
The only thing that seems intrigueing to me about using the Dynon imbedded autopilot over my AF pilot is the turbulence smoothing function that is built into the Dynon efis. Has anyone compared the autopilot with and without this feature? Does it really make a difference?

Norman CYYJ
06-05-2019, 06:29 PM
One advantage of keeping the t.t. pilot is that is if the Dynon system goes south you still have a functioning autopilot and a working heading indicator. I have always been very happy with Tru track products and their service, and they work extremely well in turbulence.

amekler
06-07-2019, 03:13 PM
you will be very happy withe the 385
the straight and level button could save your life if disorientated or inadvertent unusual attitude
Alan
N668G RV10

dpansier
09-12-2020, 03:29 PM
Following in the OP footsteps and purchased my electronics way too soon.

Have a AFS Pilot unit that is unable to hold a heading but the altitude is rock solid.
Trouble shooting I swapped the servos, servo works fine in the other function, wiring all checked out.
Appears the roll function is inop in the control head.

After a long 10+ year build, I would like to fly it some before starting a panel upgrade and Iím leaning toward picking up a used control head if available. Any other options make sense?

philb
09-12-2020, 04:32 PM
Hi Don,

As a follow up, I installed the vizion head, other than the additional pin out for the leveler, completely plug and play. Benefit is that do have the new warranty on the head. I really love the autopilot, very satisfied.

Phil

rleffler
09-12-2020, 05:31 PM
Following in the OP footsteps and purchased my electronics way too soon.

Have a AFS Pilot unit that is unable to hold a heading but the altitude is rock solid.
Trouble shooting I swapped the servos, servo works fine in the other function, wiring all checked out.
Appears the roll function is inop in the control head.

After a long 10+ year build, I would like to fly it some before starting a panel upgrade and Iím leaning toward picking up a used control head if available. Any other options make sense?

Don, have you tuned the gain and sensitivity on both the AFS Pilot, then on the AFS EFIS?

Does it act the same in both the heading mode and gpss mode? What about manual heading mode on the AP head?

What EFIS do you have?

Iím sure youíve probably already tested these, but I had to ask. I couldnít remember what you had on your panel. Especially since we both missed our annual Black Otter meat fest.

dpansier
09-12-2020, 07:23 PM
Thanks for assistance with this problem.

Iím a bit reluctant to install a BK product as they were one of the reasons I left the certificated world, hopefully they solved their issues.

The panel contains a vintage AFS 3500 which had a few issues but is performing well at this time.

Iíve been through the autopilot setup guide several times and have the gain and sensitivity dialed in for the altitude but have not been able to get the roll function operable. The roll servo remains stationary and chatters, increasing the bank rate just increases the chatter rate with no rotation. The servo seems too have plenty of power as it is difficult to rotate the shaft when it is chattering.
Appears the step pulse is being sent from the control head but the direction pulse is missing.
All wires check in the proper spots and pin - pin.

I have not tried to control the autopilot from the EFIS as I have been unable to get the autopilot only mode.

Any help will be appreciated.

rleffler
09-12-2020, 07:40 PM
Thanks for assistance with this problem.

Iím a bit reluctant to install a BK product as they were one of the reasons I left the certificated world, hopefully they solved their issues.

The panel contains a vintage AFS 3500 which had a few issues but is performing well at this time.

Iíve been through the autopilot setup guide several times and have the gain and sensitivity dialed in for the altitude but have not been able to get the roll function operable. The roll servo remains stationary and chatters, increasing the bank rate just increases the chatter rate with no rotation. The servo seems too have plenty of power as it is difficult to rotate the shaft when it is chattering.
Appears the step pulse is being sent from the control head but the direction pulse is missing.
All wires check in the proper spots and pin - pin.

I have not tried to control the autopilot from the EFIS as I have been unable to get the autopilot only mode.

Any help will be appreciated.


I have a similar apprehension with BK, but I canít elaborate publicly.

I had the arinc receiver go bad in my Vizion. Trutrak had a hard time accepting they had a bad board in the head. I was fortunate to have the help of Ken Chard and Rob Hickman assist with the troubleshooting.

If you have to replace the head and it was my money being spent, I would upgrade to a 5000 series and switch to Dynon servos. I wouldnít upgrade to whatever BK is calling the Vizion these days. actually, Iím thinking about taking out the Vizion and my servos and replacing them with Dynon servos the first of the year.

TruTrakAndrew
09-14-2020, 01:04 PM
Hey everyone, I really do understand the concerns about the TT product line. Many times when companies / technologies are acquired, the product is quickly killed off, cannibalized, or just no longer supported. We are still working to get everything running smoothly, and I am continuing to work to integrate the TT product line into existing and future BK product lines. Rest assured that Honeywell is committed to continuing support of the TT products. These products are a core part of what we have planned for BendixKing in the experimental (and GA for that matter) market.

While there are some products that we cannot continue support, those issues existed for TT as well. We just can't get parts for many of the early products anymore. We have recently approved an upgrade Sales Bulletin, much like what TT always did for our existing customers.

While I'm not out on VAF daily, I am always available to help with anything that you may have going on with your TT or BK products. Please do not hesitate to reach out to me if you have a problem or question! Andrew.Barker(at)honeywell.com