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Dugaru
01-31-2019, 01:37 PM
So I've got the 307, G5, and two GSA28s in an RV-9A. What kind of "accuracy" should I be seeing in turns if the autopilot is properly configured?

For example, let's say the autopilot is flying this GPS approach. I'm coming from the west and doing maybe 100 knots as I fly from Harcum to JUBJI:

https://aeronav.faa.gov/d-tpp/1902/09364G1.PDF

My 430W will plot, and the G5/307 will follow, a turn (indicated by a dotted line) that smooths out the corner as I get near JUBJI and start heading north toward IFESO.

When executing this turn, the plane will however overdo it to the left by about 10-15 degrees, before straightening out and heading to IFESO.

Meanwhile (if I don't command a new altitude) the altitude change will be maybe - 40 feet before it corrects and settles back at the original altitude.

The same things happen in shallower turns in cruise flight, although there's definitely less overshoot in shallower turns.

This overturning is not as significant as with my S-TEC with GPSS in the old Warrior, and is certainly not a major problem. But is it par for the course, or does it indicate that my autopilot settings still need tweaking? Is the thing actually capable of riding the plotted course like a rail?

Assuming I need to do some more tweaking, are there "starter" settings recommended for an RV-9 and the latest G5 software?

Thanks
DMG

gfb
01-31-2019, 03:06 PM
I have similar overshoot problems and have been waiting for weather to go back above zero to re-do the autopilot tuning procedure.

Has anyone managed to get it so it doesn't overshoot?

g3xpert
02-01-2019, 10:13 AM
I have similar overshoot problems and have been waiting for weather to go back above zero to re-do the autopilot tuning procedure.

Has anyone managed to get it so it doesn't overshoot?

Hello GFB,

Seeing this autopilot over-shoot a turn would be very unusual.

I have been flying this autopilot since 2012 and have never seen it over-shoot a turn, and I fly lots of approaches, all with video and data logs.

I would start by reviewing the data log and making sure that the servo isn't being limited from doing its job by a Maximum Torque setting that is too low.

For example, if you have your maximum roll servo torque set to 25%, and you see in the log that it is pegging out against the 25% limit in a turn, it is being prevented from having as much roll authority as it needs to fly the plane accurately and follow the flight director commands.

Please feel free to contact us if you need assistance in resolving this or in interpreting the data log.

Thanks,
Steve

Brantel
02-01-2019, 10:17 AM
Agree with Steve, you should be able to fine tune this AP to better than airliner performance. If you are having to go way outside the box with settings or the AP is not performing well after fine tuning, something is wrong.

gfb
02-01-2019, 10:40 AM
Glad to hear it's likely just a tuning issue. I'll try to reproduce the problem in the next few flights.

If it helps, I have all my flight telemetry uploaded to the fly.garmin.com logbook. Can you guys access that and search for the issue you mentioned? This would be a perfect use for machine learning :)

lr172
02-01-2019, 11:02 AM
Also, I am not sure you should expect it to follow the pink line. I thought the GPS steering turns were done by calculating an appropriate roll rate, based upon the degrees of the turn and the current airspeed. It also picks the start and end points of the roll command. I am sure the 430 models this on the screen to draw the pink line, but each plane will behave somewhat differently to the commanded roll. You do need to insure that you are not limiting the AP's roll rate to less than what the GPS steering commands are calling for. I don't believe that this steering approach accounts for wind either (though it might - I am not sure), so that will move your actual track relative to the plotted course.

I don't believe that the 430 plots an arc that AP precisely follows, like it does a straight line.

Larry

g3xpert
02-01-2019, 12:45 PM
Larry,

Pretty rare for it not to be on top of the magenta line in my plane. Here is a GDU 470 screen shot I took yesterday while in a holding pattern at the end of the missed approach. You do have to keep the ball centered since the GTN calculates needed bank angle assuming the plane is in coordinated flight.

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/blAAmnnbJgZVBR3ikuDOFSc5-ff6yUHawLCtk3Shg_mwSUc2BJIXUE0A6ewwek4-T96J3Ur4dL83wDOiU_XY1ikNUQPGVTI1EhSfbqfkgPyQjCSRby Vn4gOmFt6QS27t5TPGrLCOzoYn_PF4UZeR9-P5i7DoPE0JGNNerku49gfbkLK23BsIgzGuoKY1URaogjSE39yx 6K1zk8s-wBUSIEJr2jUJmQG5O9C6NTabybuSITZrwf3oPt6EYjuNPmmaWf pzw8PVdEbEeX5-Z6ebJksnjShOPQQWbzDxdlRt6ba5LdyFeoBhoBV5il0riCZlYE nemAfdT-KyFbpeD-gdHgIR1EQMXdXER0anGNO_zlcegatsgmCs3d8EhT_UK2ktvGBn pA8HRnSLl-gqgOqH4JPXjx1SL4gq2KWzwmARHJQrabpFJNVSfgOpQiCiet3X iZjJVGtUGaVadr6RonHBGRTSDM0KOc1EkauqL1gehLwnm2aCzF lG_jda69pyOUbPlJ0BqXWiorh3DLStkOr6bbeYQq_xF1fnmoP8 BdrOWB3X9jkIxuTWvUruAhimGBqI5ggILcYuvT7FHlcQdu3O5k PBXQg-Pp8isK2OCM7OEhNvMNKe3GLrPxCFtdVx5W46AQctj6ubJxBbVM TEVWDlO5PmVlNENAE=w480-h800-no

Good example of target trend. The traffic will be high and off my right wing in 60 secs.

Here is a screen shot from an Aera 660 (different flight) which is listening to the same MapMX out of the GTN as the G3X Touch system. Don't try this with a tablet!

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/p9l43sjQ1ggtNr9MQLMmXS-div-0WUWgK1QVKX01QFBJnUWNgq6K7h7v9ZpbuRps1OsGXAZAHXaQ0 QusuSLG_0YMHvXJDtNyxfejEoGnZDKQSQ-hhH9wupdPL9LuObUUKw_WM4kqQDFhJZU9iZtziwhgItdevmyBr UdVfM0085B6ePriQ05G5MfXbxdw4tWR5Oq1-S9oyxNtnNcQTt_a8MgPyy0hMxzE08AEKcAMx_y_bVIskaxnDc2 y-UzcqQac9A7D0nervzTOoB1jucuFMyqir4eUq0LdN7YhfVojsah-YfD7SeZeaBC2woqFi23OyblG14afzQqJxZWtrk2r_7GKV36bQu wiBnKLA80XmpjXRLA8xJOjnKol8L4d72a-RX6UWtjW3PwU-XRNKom1nflx759NG1NU2MSYkUI7rbgm0hFpd5pBY_Wb9SCX8V3 yRv3YwFkQu6b_hOWowgXJsvzuWvGF0d-1bUMTQEudPerPf2n0EjQym_jq9SLLjR8PfRbU7RUCb6anpIkgh V5XTIltNPhdjh68Q1DLhjKclRXCaaJEE1114Ghwwl0y_rCdHVl ZF2JWWk9UknaYmVx9gfdOdxQPGAaGSgENGPbk0j-8lLHs3vdJGSNLp8qSthrwlSmio_NsA1Ct1Jmdj6xPIuBp=w480-h800-no

Thanks,
Steve

Dugaru
02-01-2019, 12:45 PM
You do need to insure that you are not limiting the AP's roll rate to less than what the GPS steering commands are calling for.

Starting to wonder if this is my issue. Or perhaps I'm not allowing the AP to fly a steep enough bank angle.

Dugaru
02-01-2019, 12:48 PM
GFB, what are your current settings for your autopilot? Since we fly the same aircraft, I'm thinking we should probably compare notes.

I'll try to get out to the hangar this weekend and write mine down.

Glad to hear it's likely just a tuning issue. I'll try to reproduce the problem in the next few flights.

If it helps, I have all my flight telemetry uploaded to the fly.garmin.com logbook. Can you guys access that and search for the issue you mentioned? This would be a perfect use for machine learning :)

Dugaru
02-01-2019, 01:46 PM
From about a year ago. This was a fairly gentle turn at cruise speed, and the overshoot was about 6 degrees, with maybe +/- 30 feet on the altitude. Both would be more pronounced on a 90-degree turn.

Again, hardly scandalous performance, but apparently improvable:

https://share.icloud.com/photos/0hE9JdVmh24UQvqUJvwpU9E_Q

g3xpert
02-01-2019, 02:29 PM
If you are having autopilot issues, please contact us directly via email and we will get any issues you have all sorted out. When you contact us, it is helpful to provide a datalog from recent flights where you have seen issues as well as your autopilot settings.

While forums are great for opinions, going to the source for the information will get the problem sorted out much more quickly.

Thanks,
Levi Self

Team X Project Manager