Van's Air Force
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Michelin AirStop isn't
- Thread starter Dgamble
- Start date
First thing I'd do is remove the valve core and reseat it, then refill the tire and see if that has fixed the slow leak (unless you already know that the leak is someplace else from bubble testing).
Just a place to start....
Paul
Just a place to start....
Paul
Mee too #2!
Bought new Mickey Airstops and new tubes. After about a month, each was down about three pounds. I did what Paul suggested. Next month, same thing, down about 2.7 pounds. Through a series of calls, I finally got in touch with a factory aviation rep and the result of the conversation was that all tires loose air. To minimize the loss, he said to use nitrogen to inflate the tires because "nitrogen molecules are larger and cannot escape as easily through the rubber tube". When I pointed out that nitrogen was an atom, not a molecule, the conversation ended.
I will use these up and switch back to the cheap stuff for the following reasons. Air loss makes one inspect the wheels/tires/wheel pants/brakes more often. More frequent changes of tires give you the opportunity to service the wheel bearings more often and warrants more detailed inspections of the above areas. If you do not fly but 30-50 hours a year, it saves money on tires and tubes. Lastly, I plan to use the tires on this link:
http://gikonfinsh.blogspot.com/2006_08_01_gikonfinsh_archive.html
This is what I plan to do and I hope it works for me. I'm sure there are other solutions out there and would love to hear differing opinions.
Bought new Mickey Airstops and new tubes. After about a month, each was down about three pounds. I did what Paul suggested. Next month, same thing, down about 2.7 pounds. Through a series of calls, I finally got in touch with a factory aviation rep and the result of the conversation was that all tires loose air. To minimize the loss, he said to use nitrogen to inflate the tires because "nitrogen molecules are larger and cannot escape as easily through the rubber tube". When I pointed out that nitrogen was an atom, not a molecule, the conversation ended.
I will use these up and switch back to the cheap stuff for the following reasons. Air loss makes one inspect the wheels/tires/wheel pants/brakes more often. More frequent changes of tires give you the opportunity to service the wheel bearings more often and warrants more detailed inspections of the above areas. If you do not fly but 30-50 hours a year, it saves money on tires and tubes. Lastly, I plan to use the tires on this link:
http://gikonfinsh.blogspot.com/2006_08_01_gikonfinsh_archive.html
This is what I plan to do and I hope it works for me. I'm sure there are other solutions out there and would love to hear differing opinions.
AlexPeterson
Well Known Member
I've used Michelin Airstops for several years now. I maybe put air in them every 6 to 8 months. The go from about 45 psi to 35 or 40 in that time period.
With respect to nitrogen being an atom or a molecule, it is both. The common form of nitrogen in the atmosphere being molecular nitrogen N2. Frankly, I don't think it would make much difference air or nitrogen since normal air is 78% N2 anyway, the remainder being mostly O2 which actually has a slightly higher molecular weight than N2. The primary advantage of nitrogen is that it is inert and does not react with anything and will not cause any corrosion or deteriation of any mateial it contacts.
CraigH@KRPH
Well Known Member
I put on a set of the generic Leak Stop tubes sold by Desser last September. Haven't put any air in the tires since.AlexPeterson said:
ptrotter said:
Nitrogen will be interfered with more effectively than the oxygen by the carbon-sulfur bonds in the rubber, significantly slowing it's elution through the tube and tire. Pure nitrogen will still lose pressure in a tire, but slower than straight compressed air. I was told recently by an A&P servicing a Mitsubishi Diamond (now BeechJet 400A) tire that the main reason nitrogen is used is to make sure it's completely dry to limit microbial action, and so there is no oxygen in the tube to slowly oxidize the inner surface, which causes cracking.
Mike S
Senior Curmudgeon
Hard Knox said:
Interesting thought process here-----------use lesser quality parts to make you do the checks you should already be doing anyway. Preflight.
Lets see, ---if I use hardware from the local Ace, think of all the $$ I can save, and it will make me more viligant about checking the prop, wings, tail etc to be sure they dont fall off---------
Nope, I dont want to start down that slippery slope.
Mike
Dgamble
Well Known Member
Yep, they're pretty good. Mine took very little air until I recently went to the hangar and found the right side to be nearly flat. I don't think it's a quality or design issue with the tube - it's far more likely that I picked up a puncture somewhere. I've had the Desser retread tires and tubes for a couple of years now with no complaints - if I end up needing a new tube, it'll be from Desser.CraigH@KRPH said:
I've had very good experience with my Michelin Air Stop tubes. Same with my hangar mate, topping off the tires is not required for months. I will say that I recommended these tubes to my neighbor for his Grumman Tiger, and he did not notice as much difference, but there was an improvement. We are using shop air through a dryer, not nitrogen.
This year I have changed to the other brand of Leak Stop tubes, simply because they were available from the dealer where I bought my new tires.
This year I have changed to the other brand of Leak Stop tubes, simply because they were available from the dealer where I bought my new tires.
Mark Burns
Well Known Member
Nitrogen
I was taught in A&P school (a long time ago) that nitrogen was more temperature stable. And that it should be used in struts and tires for that reason if it's available.
And by stable I mean it expands and contracts less with temperature changes.
Mark
I was taught in A&P school (a long time ago) that nitrogen was more temperature stable. And that it should be used in struts and tires for that reason if it's available.
And by stable I mean it expands and contracts less with temperature changes.
Mark
Captain_John
Well Known Member
Hey, I just googled up tires and nitrogen and it seems that there are ALOTTA LINKS for stuff!
My buddy was on a carrier and says that all the warbirds do it as a standard practice!
I am sure it can't hurt any!
Check out this link for cars.
Google some yourself and check it out!
CJ
My buddy was on a carrier and says that all the warbirds do it as a standard practice!
I am sure it can't hurt any!
Check out this link for cars.
Google some yourself and check it out!
CJ
Last edited:
Mark Burns said:
This has always been my understanding of why it is used on many aircraft as well as race cars. However, I have noticed that with airstoppers and local Poughkeepsie air, my tires only loose a couple pounds when the weather turns cold.
Scott A. Jordan
N733JJ
AlexPeterson
Well Known Member
Mark Burns said:
Unfortunately, this is not true. The pressure changes in your tires due to temperature changes would be identical with any gas, at least is any measurable sense.
There might be stability in using pure nitrogen in the sense that some of the oxygen in normal air may react (combine chemically) with compounds in the rubber in the innertube, and hence not contribute to the pressure any longer.
Jconard
Well Known Member
When I raced, we did fill the tires with nitrogen, and Alex is correct that the iflation changes, attributable solely to the gases changing temperature, are not measurably different.
But, the reality is that compressed air always contains some moisture and it is this content which causes wild changes based on temperature changes.
The feeling of the racing teams was that by using nitrogen right from the bottle, we could avoid these issues. Some teams would mount the tire, use nitrogen to set the bead, then drawn a vaccum to remove all gas in the sealed tire, and then refill, with the nitrogen.
As a driver I can tell you that it made the tire pressure much more stable, and in the aero cars, it was a real help, as they are pitch critical for downforce.
But, the reality is that compressed air always contains some moisture and it is this content which causes wild changes based on temperature changes.
The feeling of the racing teams was that by using nitrogen right from the bottle, we could avoid these issues. Some teams would mount the tire, use nitrogen to set the bead, then drawn a vaccum to remove all gas in the sealed tire, and then refill, with the nitrogen.
As a driver I can tell you that it made the tire pressure much more stable, and in the aero cars, it was a real help, as they are pitch critical for downforce.
dessertire
Member
Thanks for the support sir! If you guys need anymore tubes or tires, please visit our site at http://www.vansaircrafttires.com We Desser, are now a supporting vendor on this great forum! Don't forget to subscribe to our newsletter, that will have exclusive discounts and promotions to our subscribers.
-carlo
tom boback
Member
My Desser Leak-Stops leak more than my old non-leakstops...
3 psi. drops in a 2 week period, repeatedly. Called Desser... Avi returned my call and said that per Michelin: " Tubes, including leak-stops can lose up to 5% of their pressure per day.... and that's NORMAL." Obviously, many have had good luck with these tubes, but that's unacceptable to me. If the quality on these is that unpredictable, I would certainly have to question spending the money on these in the future.
3 psi. drops in a 2 week period, repeatedly. Called Desser... Avi returned my call and said that per Michelin: " Tubes, including leak-stops can lose up to 5% of their pressure per day.... and that's NORMAL." Obviously, many have had good luck with these tubes, but that's unacceptable to me. If the quality on these is that unpredictable, I would certainly have to question spending the money on these in the future.
Kahuna
Moderatoring
It would seem this thread has drifted off.
To answer your question, as Paul said check valve first. Since these tubes are expensive, they are very much worth patching if you end up with a pin hole in a tube. I have never had a patch repair leak on any tube if patched on an aircraft tire in the 4-6 size. And Ive patched many And had those tubes last in the multi thousand flying hours range without failure through of course many tire changes along the way.
SO if your nervous about patching, dont be.
If you dont want to mess with patching, then it will end up being a new tube.
Make sure you dont go through all this without root causing the leak and verifying the offending item is no longer a source for failure. I have seen many an RV'er throw a new tube in just to have the new one leak cause the little burr/pin that caused the problem was not removed from the tire.
If your tube is not leaking at the valve.... Save the tube orientation by marking it on removal so when you find the leak you can go back to the tire and find the culprit.
Neal@F14
Well Known Member
I had excellent experience with the Aero Classic LeakGuard tubes I put on my old Cherokee. I didn't have to add any air to them for a few years....no kidding. The old plain rubber tubes required adding air every few months. I did have 6-ply 6.00x6 tires on it, so the thicker tire probaby helped prevent picking up pinholes from thorns while landing on turf runways, but I'm a true believer in the LeakGuards and will put them on my RV-6 the first time I need to remove the mains for service.
No Slime in aircraft tire for me... too much chance for screwing up the balance. Slime works fantastic in the riding mower tires however ;-)
No Slime in aircraft tire for me... too much chance for screwing up the balance. Slime works fantastic in the riding mower tires however ;-)
RVG8tor
Well Known Member
Slime help balance
Curious but wouldn't the slime actually help the balance? On initial spin up I can see an out of balance situation since the slime has settled but a few revolutions and it should balance out a tire that might be out of balance without it. Kind of light dynamic weighting, the slime distributes as required.
I have no experience or expertise here, just thinking this through my little brain. Curios if we have any experience with this.
As to the tire pressure issue. I have had my tires on for a year and after an initial refill after the first 4 weeks no air loss (stock tubes). My plane has been in a near constant temperature humidity in my garage so I am sure that would explain my lack of air loss.
Curious but wouldn't the slime actually help the balance? On initial spin up I can see an out of balance situation since the slime has settled but a few revolutions and it should balance out a tire that might be out of balance without it. Kind of light dynamic weighting, the slime distributes as required.
I have no experience or expertise here, just thinking this through my little brain. Curios if we have any experience with this.
As to the tire pressure issue. I have had my tires on for a year and after an initial refill after the first 4 weeks no air loss (stock tubes). My plane has been in a near constant temperature humidity in my garage so I am sure that would explain my lack of air loss.
