Aircraft Finishing Systems (especially their primer)

Anyone have any comments about AFS products, good or otherwise?

I'm thinking of using their primer. I used PPG DP40 on my empennage and some wing parts, and it works great, but it's a pain to work with (since it's a two-part expoxy), and since AFS is water-based, I'd think it would be easier to work with. How well does the primer hold up?

John (RV-6 sssslllllooowwwww build...left wing)

Nothing wrong with water based paints, but there is nothing better for primer than DP40.
I'd stay with what works, and just tell yourself that you are only going to paint this plane once.

Personally, I don't know how DP40 could be described as being "hard to work with". Like any two-part material, you mix it, and you spray it.
"Being hard to work with" is more a description of the messy Alodine process, not a simple two-part primer like DP40.

I ordered a gallon of the water-borne stuff after working with the SW wash primer. Mixing the two-part was time consuming (actually mixing and shooting was fairly easy. It was the clean-up that was a pain in the neck).

So I ordered a gallon of the AFS primer. I finally got around to using it on some wing skins and it worked fine. I can't say it saved me a lot of time, but it certainly seemed durable and nobody was killed by my using it asa far as I know.

Still, I went back to the SW primer because I fnally figured out how to use my HVLP gun properly and the stuff is light and tough and more consistent with my "build light" plan. (I'm not sure I can afford a constant speed prop so I'm trying to maximize performance by building light and I'll just get some place a little later than everyone else>(g)).

If yo're anywhere near Minneapolis/St. Paul, you can have the rest of the AFS primer and try it out (and keep it) if you'd like.

Bob
St. Paul

John,

I experimented with a number of different paints on my empennage, and finally settled on the AFS system. I used AFS primer for all of my wing parts, and I really like it. The best thing about the AFS primer is that you don't have to mix it, and you can pour any extra paint back into the bottle when your are done. I don't even thin the primer, just use it straight from the bottle.

The only complaint that I have heard from others is the drying time. I can confirm that it is longer than SW 988, which is like 2 minutes, but it is not really a problem. I tend to wait about 10-15 minutes between coats.

On the other hand, the top coat is a "more normal" two-part poly urethane. It takes a bit of practice to get good results, but it looks really good once you get the hang of it.

The other good thing about AFS is their support. They will talk to you on the phone, and they don't turn their noses up if you just want a quart of primer.

Tracy - RV-7A

I used AFS on my 9A and it worked great. I did thin the primer a bit with distilled water. I like the fact that it is nice and white which makes a very nice light clean looking interior when doing inspections etc down the road.

Does anyone have any experience with their top coats?

Thanks,
PJ
RV-10 40032

So far, I have experimented with their Metalic Red, Metalic Blue, and Insignia White on my horizontal stabilizer. My first attempt at painting the fiberglass pieces and the trimtab were not very good. After some sanding, my second attemp was better, but still not good. I had runs, orange peel, and oil rings. I could see just how nice the AFS paint would look if applied correctly, but there was still progress to be made.

Then, I got some tips from Andy Karmy, who was doing all of his fiberglass at the time. My third try at painting the fiberglass parts was pretty good, but not perfect. One problem was with parts falling over and ruining the finish. Also, I am painting with extremely cheap equipment and no paint booth. Obviously, this has nothing to do with the paint. It's just part of the learning process that you need to go through if you are going to paint a whole airplane.

I have fixed the problem with parts falling over (I built a rotating stand that will hold pieces as large as a wing), and the results are getting better all the time. The key is to practice until you have the feel, the mixture, and the environment right. I have no reservations about using AFS to paint the whole airplane. It really looks good when it is applied properly.

One thing regarding shelf-life which is supposed to be one year. I found that the white paint that had been opened a year before had started to harden on the bottom. I broke-up the hard piece on the bottom of the bottle, and thought everything was fine. However, when I got to the bottom of the bottle I discovered what felt like sandpaper on the top of the HS. You really should run the paint through a filter before you put it into the gun (just like the instructions say to do).

The Metalic Blue, which had not been opened, went on very nicely, even after a year. My suggestion is to order the paint when you need it, and use it once you open it, but it will definitely last the whole year if not opened. Note, that I live in Texas, and the paint sits out in the garage, which is not very good for paint.

BTW, the fiberglass parts that I painted over a year ago have been tossed around the shop quite a bit, and the paint has held-up really well, even if the application was not so good.

Tracy.

My thanks to all who responded. I'm going to give the AFS stuff a try (one quart of primer) and see if I like it. The ease of cleanup is what I'm looking for (yep, I'm kinda lazy, and I'll also save a tad of $ on solvent...just enough to buy 1/1000th of that glass panel I'm going to purchase). If I don't like it, I'll go back to the DP40. The latter is as tough as nails and easy to spray, but it does take time and a bit of care to mix it, and cleanup can be time-consuming (and smelly). Plus I like the fact that I can pour what paint I don't use back into the can, instead of having to chuck it.

Tracy,

Thanks for the info. Did you use the AFS primer underneath, or somtehing else?

PJ

PJ,

I did a lot of experimenting with primers and corrosion inhibiters on the empennage. On a few ribs, I tried Alodine only, I think I sprayed SW988 on top of Alodine, and I used SW988 with an enamel top coat. Then, I bought the AFS primer and 3 quarts of red, white and blue paint. I painted the top and bottom of the HS with AFS primer and AFS top coat. However, I am pretty sure that the solid bars on the rear of the HS had been primed with SW988 and topcoated with enamel. I went ahead and sprayed AFS primer on top of this before doing the AFS topcoat (remember, I am experimenting here). This seemed to cover and adhere without any problems, but this was painted in December, and I haven't looked at it since I hung the HS on the wall back in January.

Also, when I painted the trimtab, it already had SW988 without topcoat on the rear piece, but the rest of the trimtab was bare. I wanted to see what would happen if I used AFS on top of SW988, so I gave it a try--it didn't adhere very well at all. I ended up sanding the whole trimtab and repainted it, again. The trimtab had other problems, and I ended up sanding it again a year later, and repainting it again.

I should note, that once the topcoat dries, it is very hard to sand. It can be sanded, but it takes a lot of effort. Also, the topcoat is virtually impervious to any solvents that I have (MEK, lacquer thinner, naptha). The primer comes right off with MEK, even after 6 months. The primer comes off with lacquer thinner and a bit of rubbing.

Since my initial tests with the empennage, I have used only AFS primer on the wings, to ensure that the base coat will be compatible with my intended topcoat (AFS). Every datasheet for every paint system says to only use their primer under their topcoat. So, my suggestion would be to follow the manufacture's recommendation, and only use compatible products.

Tracy.