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Dimple dies

captainron

captainron

Well Known Member
I purchased a set of #3 "spring-back" dies from one of the "big three" (A-B-C) tool suppliers, and I am not pleased with the dimples they produce. The dimple is just too rounded and the rivet sits too deep in the dimple. When squeezed, since the rivet sits low, the manufactured head is just not tight enough and the head is too far below flush. Has anyone else had this and can anyone recommend a better die set?
 
I have dies form Cleaveland and really like them. If I use not quite enough force they can create dimples something like you are talking about. I liked the first set of the Cleaveland dies well enough I bought two more in other sizes even though I already had those size dies from another vendor. YMMV
 
Ron,

I also use the Cleaveland dimple dies and have also gotten perfect rivets...Just curious, can you show us a picture or two of your results? Better yet, how about dimpling a scrap piece of .020-.030, take a photo of the resulting dimple, then squeeze a rivet and take another photo.
 
Hi Bret, I think that part of the problem is that I'm dimpling .032, two bulkhead pieces to be riveted together. I'm sure it would work better on lighter gauge stuff. The first pic here is the dimpled hole, the next is the rivet sitting in the hole, and the last two are squeezed. I hope you can see that the rivet has "room" around the head.

Could it be that the .032" is too heavy to "spring back"?

http://i
mg215.imageshack.us/img215/7959/dsc01258lp5.th.jpg

http://
img215.imageshack.us/img215/7755/dsc01259bb1.th.jpg




 
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sportpilot said:
Ron, here are some pics of our work with the dimpled #3 rivets. I have noticed that results are very slightly different depending on which tools your using, hand squeezer, neumatic squeezer, or rivet gun.

This first pic is using the Cleveland hand squeezer for both the dimple and the rivet on the flap gap seal. The upper row is the factory installed QB. The row along the trailing edge is our work. We think we came out as good as the factory work. Do these rivets pass muster in your eyes?
Trailing edge row of rivets on flap gap seal are ours. all others are factory rivets

This next pic of dimples was using the table top dimple machine, but with the same dies. We could not detect any notable flaws.
Dimples using the table top dimple machine and Cleveland dies

This last pic was dimpled using the table top machine and rivets shot with the air gun.
Rivets shot with the air gun

I agree the heads do look below the surface, but we thought that was a good thing since the paint will fill them in. If the shop head is not down enough, have you tried cranking down half a turn on the screw jack on the squeezser? Thats what we do.
Do our rivets show the same results as what you are getting? , This wont solve your problem but maybe it will help.. :rolleyes:
Click to expand...

Thanks Claude, I think it's just the heavier stuff (.032") that's giving me trouble. Your work looks good!
Ron
 
Okay...someone's gotta ask so I'll ask. Are you sure you're not using tank dimple dies?

I use Cleveland dies too, and not to take anything away from Avery (cause I use just about everything else from them) but in my opinion the Cleveland dies are just a touch nicer than anything else out there.

I think the tank dies have a "t" in the part number. It should be visible on the die. I'll check tonight and post back if I'm wrong.
 
jcoloccia said:
Okay...someone's gotta ask so I'll ask. Are you sure you're not using tank dimple dies?

I use Cleveland dies too, and not to take anything away from Avery (cause I use just about everything else from them) but in my opinion the Cleveland dies are just a touch nicer than anything else out there.

I think the tank dies have a "t" in the part number. It should be visible on the die. I'll check tonight and post back if I'm wrong.
Click to expand...

Is .032" too heavy to "spring back"? Should I use standard dimple dies on this stuff?
 
I have to agree...
I have a set of springback dies from Avery, Cleaveland, and yardstore.com

The cleaveland dies are just somehow better. They make a crisper, better looking dimple every time. I have relegated the other two sets to use for dimpling understructures ... I save the cleaveland ones for the exterior skins. YMMV

T.
 
I recall reading somewhere that Dan C recommended some dies he had seen and said he would only use those if he built again. I cant seem to find it again. Anyone know ? EJ
 
Dimple Dies

Perhaps you have an oddball die from Cleveland that slipped past QA/QC. I've used the dies you are referring to from rivet tools and also the dies from Cleveland. To me, the Cleveland dies are the best on the market.

Mike Miller
RV-10 - Tailcone complete
RV-9A - Vertical Stab
 
Cleaveland Dies

Thanks to all for the kind words about our dies. We go to great lengths to make sure the dies are of top quality and more important tolerance.

Looking at the photos I would say if they are our dies something is terribly wrong. My first guess would be a mismatch in the male and female. Perhaps they were packaged incorrectly and a tank die female was matched with a regular male. My second guess is... believe it or not it happens... did you dimple both sheets at the same time???

As for the skin thickness it should not matter between .016" and .040" The outer diameter of the die makes a difference in .040", but in .032" it does not. Initially when designing the dies we assumed that to get perfect dimples we would have to have a different set for each skin thickness. We also thought that we would have to have a different set for the c-frame and the squeezer. Once we had all the R&D done it turned out that the springback angle was the same regardless of skin thickness or the tool it was used in. But that is where the tolerance comes in. If the springback angle varies by even .05 of a degree or the funnel diameter by .0003" the die will not work as well. Most machines can't even keep these tolerances, that is why we make them in house. Several attempts to have high precision machine shops make them have not panned out due to the high tolerances and finishes we require.

I will send a replacement set immediately. I encourage anyone to contact me in the future if they are experiencing trouble. Occasionally I look at these lists as time permits, but not often enough to catch a problem like this.

Mike

Mike Lauritsen
Cleaveland Aircraft Tool
mike (at) cleavelandtool.com
800-368-1822
www.cleavelandtool.com
 
I've been using Avery without a problem... maybe i'm just not that picky... On the other hand, you could just countersink .032
 
I just got the cleaveland dies

I just got the Cleaveland dies and they work awesome.

We are selling the Cleaveland dies and punches, along with other sets from Cal A/C.

We just started getting into more tooling, but we do have the dimple dies and punches. I stock them as my numbers but they are made by Cleaveland.

They are great folks, order from them or us, :) whatever is more convenient.

see http://www.gen-aircraft-hardware.com/images/pdf/rivet-sets.pdf
 
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