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People using Dynons. How do you like them?

Paul Tuttle

Paul Tuttle

Well Known Member
I have just about made up my mind that I am going to go with Dynon's
EFIS-D100 and EMS-D120. Before doing so though I would like to get the opinion of those who are using them . I would like to know how the installation went, how they are to fly behind and the general overall level of satisfaction. Thanks.

Paul

RV 8 Fuselage
 
D100 and D10

I love mine. They have had a couple of (admittedly rare) glitches that required factory service but other than that great so far.

Frank
 
Hi Paul

I have one of the old D-10's. I didn't upgrade it to a D-10A. I love it. Other than a software bug Dynon fixed a couple of years ago, I've had absolutely no problems with it. I recently put an OAT on it, and hooked it up to my transponder. This allowed me to removed my RMI uEncoder and put a Trio EZ-Pilot in its place.

P.S. I just noted that you live in Lantz. I was just in Milford Station at my sister's place a couple of weeks ago. Had I realized I would have given you a call. Next time.

Cheers
 
Paul Tuttle said:
I have just about made up my mind that I am going to go with Dynon's
EFIS-D100 and EMS-D120. Before doing so though I would like to get the opinion of those who are using them . I would like to know how the installation went, how they are to fly behind and the general overall level of satisfaction. Thanks.

Paul

RV 8 Fuselage
Click to expand...
I keep trying to add a picture of my Dynon panel in My RV3 but have no luck, sorry. Dick
 
I had a D10A in an RV-3, and now have a D180 in my RV-8. I've been really happy with the Dynon products, and particularly with their active support, and updates. The D100/D120 combo is even better if you want to make the space and funds available for them. DO get the bright screen option for any bubble canopy RV.

Cheers,
Rusty (6.3 hours)
 
10A

Hi Paul,

I have the 10A. I waited as long as possible for the larger version put finally had to pull the trigger and make the decision.

Doing it again I'd consider the newer Dynon but definitely would rule out the Advanced Systems new EFIS. I only throw that in because I love the ACS engine monitor. Plus Rob at ACS is an RV guy.
 
RV7Guy said:
Hi Paul,

I have the 10A. I waited as long as possible for the larger version put finally had to pull the trigger and make the decision.

Doing it again I'd consider the newer Dynon but definitely would rule out the Advanced Systems new EFIS. I only throw that in because I love the ACS engine monitor. Plus Rob at ACS is an RV guy.
Click to expand...
Darwin,
Does this say what you wanted it to say? Or did you mean that you would NOT rule out Advanced Systems EFIS?

thanks,

-mike
 
I have one of the early D-10s and love it. A few teething problems in the early days, but I was taken care of in a very courteous and professional manner. Would not upgrade to the D-10A because of the encoder hook-up.
 
I have one of the early D-10s and love it. A few teething problems in the early days, but I was taken care of in a very courteous and professional manner. Would not upgrade to the D-10A because of the encoder hook-up.
Click to expand...

Same here, but I've decided to upgrade since I'm not using the Dynon for the xsponder encoder. The winds aloft/crosswinds feature of the D10A is way cool. :)
 
I'm using the EFIS D-10A with my GTX-320A transponder which requires parallel input. I'm using Dynon's adapter which is TINY compared to every encoder I've seen, so IMHO it's still preferred over a stand-alone encoder.
 
I retrofitted a D-10A/EDC-10 to replace electric gyros in a RV-7 that were grinding themselves to death. The solid state vibration immunity will save bucks in the long run, it's fairly impervious to upset, and microprocessors can gin up useful and also superfluous, distracting info. My favorite Dynon trick is the real time TAS.

Counterpoint, it doesn't even come close to the instant legibility and ease of interpretation that dedicated AH and DG present. The heading tape is almost confusing compared to a compass rose picture, and it leads and lags and has a variety of heading compensations just like a wet compass. The D100 split screen with HSI might help, but now you're into squinting at tiny numbers. Direct sunlight does wash out the display, but you can still see it. (All those EFIS ads show installations beneath a roofed-over cockpit!) Nonetheless, I installed a D-10A from the get-go on a new project for the same reasons as the retrofit. Configure the display as you will, but I think all the bells and whistles can be overwhelming if the chips are down and you're dedicating more neurons to dealing with a fancy display that you really don't know how to run and keep the airplane upright. That's true of any complex panel (G1000 schools!). A pinched static line tanked my Dynon in IMC; I'm very glad to have had steam gauge partitial panel back-up that I could instantly utilize without any intervention.

You get a lot of capability for the buck in a Dynon, and the software geeks keep up the enhancements. Have fun with the new toys and integrated systems, but use them wisely.

John Siebold
 
John,

Just as another counterpoint, a pinched vacuum line would have tanked your mechanical attitude indicator. No instrument works right when it isn't getting the data it needs. A backup when used in IMC is always a requirement, and the EFIS will do a great job when your vacuum pump packs it in some day, and with a backup battery, it will even do a good job if the alternator decides to quit at the same time.

We are well aware that the EFIS can do a lot and this can cause issues with too much data on the screen. It's the reason that we allow the screen to be de-cluttered. You can take it all the way down to just the artificial horizon if you wish. Having all the tapes and such up is not a requirement- it's a user defined setup. We're pretty unique in the EFIS world in allowing so much configuration. Of course most people buy the EFIS because it does so much in one box, but if you have other indicators in your plane, you can remove the redundant info.

The heading tape should not lead/lag like a compass does. If it is we very much want to find out why since the system should not do this. This indicates either a broken unit or a install issue.

We are very much on the same page with using the data wisely however. No matter what EFIS or steam gauge you buy, please read the manual throughly and use the instrument on the ground before going flying with it. With the Dynon EFIS units, if you order the internal battery we ship them partially charged. When you get your unit, press the right button to fire it up and play with it on your couch for an hour or so. You can get familiar with it right in the comfort of your couch. Just make sure you don't wake up the family with your airplane noises! ;)


Notes for other posts:

Plenty of us here at Dynon fly RVs too.

If you need a parallel encoder for your transponder, we do sell a converter for the D10A to go back to that method. Yes, it's $80, but it will allow you to get all the new stuff like the HSI and winds that the D10A does. You're not totally stuck if you wish to move to the D10A, and of course we are still offering upgrades from the D10 to D10A.

If there's anything we're not doing in our engine monitor that you would like to see, please let us know. It's our goal to have a very rich feature set in that product, and I think we're pretty close.
 
Last edited:
Flap- and trim indication?

Dynonsupport,

Can your engine monitor show the positions of the flaps and trim, like the ACS does?

Regards, PilotTonny.
 
Yo, Dynon Support,

My back-ups are electric, as stated, not vacuum (don't need that dinosaur, and no mags, either). The pinched line served the Dynon. We agree about clutter; your delete options are very much appreciated and one of the reasons I chose Dynon. The full-up display looks like the circus came to town.

You've looked at and blessed my fussy -10A/EDC, your service and interest are very supportive, but there's been no improvement. The installation conforms to instructions and mimics others in equipment location. The heading weirdness varies between ground attitude and flight attitude, and will not calibrate out. I'm done fooling with it since I generally track a nav signal and numerical heading isn't very important; its like dealing with a crosswind.

The new project will fly in a couple of weeks. You can bet I'll be seriously interested in its performance.

John Siebold
 
I am very happy with the D10 that I upgraded to 10A and the EMS. I also can not say enough for the support the Dynon staff provides. Mike Schofield is always pleasant and has solved the very few problems I have had, most of them my fault. There is only one thing that I could say is a negative and that is on cold days the screen is slow to appear. I just have to put a heater in the cockpit, which is probably better on all the instrumentation and it shows up fine. I think you would be hard pressed to find better instrumentation and service for the money.
 
dynonsupport said:
We are well aware that the EFIS can do a lot and this can cause issues with too much data on the screen. It's the reason that we allow the screen to be de-cluttered.
Click to expand...
To solve this issue, have you considered to have even bigger displays with higher resolution? Any plans for touchscreens and are customers statisfied with the buttons? And if not bigger screen for Dynon, any possibility to support external LCDs (possibly using them as dual and/or even with higher resolution) and button sets?

I understand that we can't get all but we can always ask. :D So far I like what I've seen and hopefully I can get it with same price in couple of years.
 
Small tech note

I finally got my D100 EFIS to read the serial data from the GNS430...Wow and HSI with TAS and winds aloft..Way cool.

But....I also have a Trutrak auto pilot that needs the same aviation format serial data.

I assumed that I could wire serial output #1 to the Trutrak and Output #2 to the Dynon...WRONG!

Both these units require "Aviation" format and you can't output the same data on more than one channel from the 430.

The fix is simple enough (if you don't mind soldering while upside down) and that is to wire output one to both the trutrak and the Dynon...According to my friend who works at Garmin you can wire up to 4 serial devices to one output of the 430.

Works great...on the ground at least.

Frank
 
I did much of my training in an airplane that had only a D-10A for flight instruments (Ok, it did have a MC). I would say that using the small screen Dynon for primary instruments is fine for a 90kt airplane, but not a 160kt RV. The bigger screen should provide significantly better readability over the small screen of the 10A. Brightness of the 10A was marginal in direct sunlight, but I have not used the new "super bright" displays.

I did manage to overtemp the 10A while doing T&Gs and flying at low altitude to stay under the Class B on several nice Dallas afternoons (100+). When this happens, the display goes to a B&W presentation - no color, harder to read. However, once I opened the canopy to let in lots of cooling air, temps came back down and both the instrument and pilot were happier.

The internal battery is a nice feature. I liked to turn the Dynon on when I started the preflight so it was nicely stabilized when it was time to start and taxi.

In the CT, we did not opt for the D-100/120 package. Given that this is a VFR only airplane, we went simple and figured we could upgrade from there. We will install either a D-180 or EMS this winter. We like the alerting ability of the EMS over steam gauges. However, for VFR, the Dynon EFIS is overkill.
 
Tonny,

The EMS does support trim and flap indicators like ACS does.

Pirkka,

We do sell the D100 which is a 7" widescreen with pretty high resolution, and this is a big change over the D10A and is only $200 more. We can't just support any random LCD screen since we don't run Windows, DOS, or Linux like some of our competitors do. Our hardware is specifically designed for our LCD and talks to it digitally without a video card. It's an interesting idea, but we're going to stay far, far away from PC's because of stability issues.

As for touch screens, they are generally a bad idea in airplanes. They're hard to hit in turbulence because you're just trying to touch a flat surface, not something with any texture.
 
Delivery time

Thanks for all the opinions . What is the usual delivery time for the units after ordering?

Paul

RV 8 Fuselage
 
Trim Indicators???

dynonsupport said:
The EMS does support trim and flap indicators like ACS does.
Click to expand...

I know I'm a long way from ordering my avionics, but here's my question. Is it possible to have manual elevator trim and manual aileron trim indications displayed in the Dynon (or other integrated) electronic display? For whatever reason, I prefer manual trim, but the thought occurred to me that I would like to display my trim settings on an EFIS. Whaddya think?
Don
 
Paul Tuttle said:
Thanks for all the opinions . What is the usual delivery time for the units after ordering?

Paul

RV 8 Fuselage
Click to expand...

Dynon claims less than two weeks. If this is true then it would be a major departure from other vendors (from what I've seen over the years).
 
dynonsupport said:
We can't just support any random LCD screen since we don't run Windows, DOS, or Linux like some of our competitors do. Our hardware is specifically designed for our LCD and talks to it digitally without a video card. It's an interesting idea, but we're going to stay far, far away from PC's because of stability issues.
Click to expand...
That explains a lot. Stability == every x hundred line of code will have at least one bug. Having less code is very likely be more stable. And Windows as starting point will not lead very good results on stability. Here in Finland we can't fly IRF with experimentals so losing EFIS is not a such big deal as we usually have also some steam backup and paper map. I'm not saying I would like to see blue screen or something, but... (Once I did wanted to draw some cash from the wall but there was blue screen with some .dll-loading errors... who wants to give any cards for machines like that anyway.)

I've never flown with EFIS so honestly can't say that it should be size x. However all the pictures and measurements (paper models) I've made I would say that having navigation and engine instruments in 7" screen is not fun. Of course getting two displays is an option, but like having two small cars when you would need one big. ;)

As for touch screens, they are generally a bad idea in airplanes. They're hard to hit in turbulence because you're just trying to touch a flat surface, not something with any texture.
Click to expand...
It's nice to see that you do not directly deny anything but will show the pros and cons for everything. Of course touch screen in plane should have "big" buttons for a start and UI has to be bit different anyway for best usability. However as you are running with microprocessors, supporting touch screen would be big step with no true advantages - more like nice-to-have option.


As you are now reading I might throw a few more questions. As choosing avionics is not the current state of my project, I'm just looking some basic information and don't read whole website through until it's really time to make the choise. Therefore these can be answered somewhere with small print, but yet I haven't found them from you site.

a) You have Li-Ion batteries for a backup. Which brand of batteries are you selling (as we all know the problems that Sony had a while ago)?

b) I guess Dynon can't drive autopilots?

c) Any plans for moving map or such? As knowing where you are is next important thing after you know how you are.

d) Does your system collect data which could be downloaded for futher analysis for the PC? If so, how much data it can collect and which rate?


As for now we need a bunch of different systems to make complete avionics. If we just could get all-in-one that should become cheaper than buying all different things from different vendors. And in that case I would also willing to pay more than current price of Dynon as well. :D And thanks for the previous answer, that was quick and complete!
 
Paul,

If you ordered one direct from us today it would ship today. We have every product on the shelf right now.

This does vary a little bit over time, but our delivery hasn't been more than two weeks since before Oshkosh, and we don't expect that to change. We've done lots of work around here to make sure we can deliver right away. Ordering from a dealer sometimes slows things down if they don't get us the order right away. Nothing we can do about that.

rv7boy,

It's totally possible to display the trim with mechanical trim, but you may need to do a little work. All we need is a potentiometer hooked up to the trim somehow so the resistance varies as you adjust the trim. We calibrate your trim so it doesn't have to be a specific resistance or range, but we'd recommend a 1K pot. This shouldn't be too hard to fabricate up.
 
Thanks

dynonsupport said:
rv7boy,

It's totally possible to display the trim with mechanical trim, but you may need to do a little work. All we need is a potentiometer hooked up to the trim somehow so the resistance varies as you adjust the trim. We calibrate your trim so it doesn't have to be a specific resistance or range, but we'd recommend a 1K pot. This shouldn't be too hard to fabricate up.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the prompt response,
I'm not an "electron chaser" but I thought it could be done someway. I'm at least a year away from getting serious about the instrument panel, but I do appreciate the positive feedback.
Don
 
Pirkka said:
I've never flown with EFIS so honestly can't say that it should be size x. However all the pictures and measurements (paper models) I've made I would say that having navigation and engine instruments in 7" screen is not fun. Of course getting two displays is an option, but like having two small cars when you would need one big. ;)

...

a) You have Li-Ion batteries for a backup. Which brand of batteries are you selling (as we all know the problems that Sony had a while ago)?

b) I guess Dynon can't drive autopilots?

c) Any plans for moving map or such? As knowing where you are is next important thing after you know how you are.

d) Does your system collect data which could be downloaded for futher analysis for the PC? If so, how much data it can collect and which rate?
Click to expand...

The 7" screen is pretty big actually. Putting two things on it at once really doesn't crowd it at all. We're not trying to do EFIS, EMS, HSI, and moving map all at once. Having two screens is actually really nice- because of screen prices it doesn't cost any more and gives you some redundancy.

a) We don't use Sony Li-Ion batteries and never have.

b) We don't interface with any autopilots at this time.

c) It is our plan to make just about everything you could want in your panel at some point in the future, but we don't have any timeframe for a moving map.

d) Our system outputs data out the back of the unit which can be collected externally, but we don't have internal storage at this time. The data comes out at 64Hz.
 
Never noticed the Ray Allen position sensor before, but that would work great with our system.
 
Dynonsupport

Dynon support

Thats great. I ordered a Catto prop a few weeks ago because of the lead time . I'll wait until I'm a little closer to finishing before ordering . Who knows what new stuff you guys may have come up with by then.

Paul

RV 8 Fuselage
 
As long as we're on the subject...

The one thing I would really like to see on the Dynon (D100) would be the compass rose right on the attitude indicator. The heading tape seems awkward to me. I find myself referencing my vacuum DG fairly frequently. There's something about the display that is very intuitive (particularly when approaching an unfamilier airport.

John
 
Advanced Flight EFIS

Like the Dynon the Advanced Flight Systems EFIS does not run on Windows or Linux. The internal AHRS is actually running FAA certified software.

The new AF-3400EM and AF-3500EM Engine Monitor can be connected to a Dynon EFIS giving you a full EFIS, engine display, and data logging on the engine monitor screen.

Rob Hickman
www.Advanced-Flight-Systems.com
 
Mistake

mlw450802 said:
Darwin,
Does this say what you wanted it to say? Or did you mean that you would NOT rule out Advanced Systems EFIS?

thanks,

-mike
Click to expand...

Thanks for the catch Mike,

I would NOT rule out the Advanced Flight Systems!!!!!!!
 
John_RV4 said:
The one thing I would really like to see on the Dynon (D100) would be the compass rose right on the attitude indicator. The heading tape seems awkward to me. I find myself referencing my vacuum DG fairly frequently. There's something about the display that is very intuitive (particularly when approaching an unfamilier airport.

John
Click to expand...
This is interesting. Having trained in both Dynon and steam gauge airplanes, I find the heading tape very natural. I guess it's what you're used to.

Doug
 
Paul Tuttle said:
I have just about made up my mind that I am going to go with Dynon's
EFIS-D100 and EMS-D120. Before doing so though I would like to get the opinion of those who are using them . I would like to know how the installation went, how they are to fly behind and the general overall level of satisfaction. Thanks.

Paul

RV 8 Fuselage
Click to expand...

Paul,

Can't comment on the EFIS, but service for original D-10 is good. Mine is upgraded to 10A and the TAS feature is very nice as is OAT.

I had a bad temp sensor and they replaced it proptly even before the original was returned. One of the wires coming out of it had no voltage.

Haven't yet calibrated the AOA but that will come one of these days.

I had an avionics shop wire the 32 pin connector. I tried soldering those little suckers and that did not work at all. The avionics guys use a small crimper and that works well.

dd
 
I have a few additional questions for those who are flying with the new software. My RV-6A is flown under IFR and has traditional steam gauges. There is an SL-30 with Mid-Continent indicator in the panel and this is supplemented with a Garmin 296, soon to be 496. The plan is to replace the vacuum DG with a D-10A and use it primarily as an HSI, and secondary as a backup to the vacuum attitude indicator. How well does the DG function of the HSI work? I?ve read that some builders are complaining about heading lead / lag in a turn, similar to the typical whiskey compass errors. Does the Dynon DG provide an equivalent level of precision as a vacuum DG? Currently, the Mid-Continent is setting the OBS on the SL-30. Once set on the Mid-Continent, will this replicate to the Dynon. And finally, can you elect to remove the bearing pointers from the display? I?ve flown glass before and had the option to remove these from the display. Over 95% of the time, we never displayed them as they provided redundant information and cluttered the display.

Thanks in advance,

Scott Gesele
N506RV (900+ hrs)
 
N401RH said:
The new AF-3400EM and AF-3500EM Engine Monitor can be connected to a Dynon EFIS giving you a full EFIS, engine display, and data logging on the engine monitor screen.
Click to expand...
An interesting option. Worth of considering until one unit will do all. Yes, AFS can do it, but I do see price difference between Dynon and AFS which can't be ignored. AFS can drop their prices or Dynon add new features with some price increases... ;)
 
RV7Guy said:
I would NOT rule out the Advanced Flight Systems!!!!!!!
Click to expand...

Unless you are trying to fly anytime soon. Delivery dates have slipped from July to October to December to... I ordered in April and am still waiting.
 
Scott,
We expect the compass to outperform a mechanical DG. It doesn't drift at all and shouldn't under or overshoot. I guess only other users can tell you how many are having issues.

The OBS on the SL-30 must be set on the SL-30 when you have only the Dynon HSI. We can only receive from the SL-30, so we can't set the OBS. If you keep the analog indicator, the Dynon HSI will follow the analog one.

You can't currently remove bearing pointers with the SL-30, but they only show up when they are active, so you can de-tune the standby if you don't want that one. A future SW update will allow you to set up bering pointers how you want.
 
Dynon

I have had my DA-10 for several years with absolutely no problems. I might suggest remote pick up for compass. I do aerobatics on about 80% of my flights and again no problems. I do note it keeps up in roll but then RV's are relatively slow rolling aircraft, but it does not keep up in pitch in looping manuvers. It does not tumble as my old "steam gauge" horizon did. Roger Moore
 
Don't forget you can mix Dynon instruments.

I elected to install a D100 EFIS on the left side and D10 EMS on the right. The two are bused together so they can share info from each other. This has left me with a LOT of space on the panel and puts an EFIS on the right side for when my wife / passenger wants to fly.

The DSUB connections between the two units ROCKS!

The other thing that I really like is the audio and visual warnings the units put out. Even if you are blind, the audio warning will get your attention if something should start inching towards a limit.

Here's a picture: (Click to enlarge)
 
N941WR said:
Even if you are blind, the audio warning will get your attention if something should start inching towards a limit.
Click to expand...

If you're blind, I'd imagine the first parameter to reach a limit would be your airspeed!
:D
 
I elected to install a D100 EFIS on the left side and D10 EMS on the right. The two are bused together so they can share info from each other. This has left me with a LOT of space on the panel and puts an EFIS on the right side for when my wife / passenger wants to fly.
Click to expand...

Bill, your panel looks nice and like you, I'm a Dynon fan.

I do have a question: With all the empty space on your panel, why did you add the subpanel instead of just putting the switches and breakers in the standard panel? Please understand I'm not criticizing your design, just curious.
 
Sam Buchanan said:
Bill, your panel looks nice and like you, I'm a Dynon fan.

I do have a question: With all the empty space on your panel, why did you add the subpanel instead of just putting the switches and breakers in the standard panel? Please understand I'm not criticizing your design, just curious.
Click to expand...
Thanks for the complement.

The reason for the subpanel is that some day I thought I might upgrade from VFR to IFR and thought the subpanel would be easier to replace. Also, there is a red EL strip above the switches for night time illumination and I couldn't figure out how to do that w/o a spotlight of some type, if they were on the panel.

In addition to that, it put the carb heat and flap switch just to the left and right of the throttle quadrant. This allows me to push both levers forward, push in the carb heat with my thumb, and toggle up the flaps with the middle finger of my right hand. With one motion I can do a go-around and can keep my hand firmly planted on the throttle quadrant.

How many times have you tried to reach for a switch and can't activate it because of turbulence? All those worries go away with this layout.

One other thought, the -9 is large enough that the subpanel really doesn't cut into your leg room, so why not add it?
 
The reason for the subpanel is that some day I thought I might upgrade from VFR to IFR and thought the subpanel would be easier to replace. Also, there is a red EL strip above the switches for night time illumination and I couldn't figure out how to do that w/o a spotlight of some type, if they were on the panel.
Click to expand...

Sounds like a plan, Bill. Leaving room for upgrades is good considering how quickly the avionics options are changing. I really encourage the builders in our local group to consider a modular panel so upgrades won't be so messy when the newest must-have gadget hits the market.

Thanks for the reply. :)
 
Sam Buchanan said:
...Leaving room for upgrades is good considering how quickly the avionics options are changing. I really encourage the builders in our local group to consider a modular panel so upgrades won't be so messy when the newest must-have gadget hits the market...
Click to expand...
Sam,

That is VERY GOOD advice.

I went as far as using plate nuts and 10-32 cap screws to hold things (dimmer controller, Mode-C box, etc.) in place behind the sub-panel. That way they are VERY easy to remove when lying on your back with your hands up where you can't see what screw you are trying to turn. In some cases I mounted "things" to small hat sections of aluminum and then held them in place with the cap screws. All that was done with future maintenance in mind.
 
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