Avoiding Vancouver and Victoria ATC

I'm an N-pilot needing some help from C-pilots. How big a library must I purchase and carry to navigate around and avoid entry into the B, and C airspaces smothering these two cities? I have the Vancouver VFR navigation chart, but it's woefully inadequate because it doesn't show floor and ceiling of all the various fragments as do FAA sectionals. My 795 will delineate boundaries and altitudes of each, but no mention of contact/no contact stratifications that may exist within.

Does yet another $20 chart - the Victoria terminal - have everything I need? I've no fear of ATC, but I'd much rather not be involved, preferring sight-seeing and conversation with my pax than confinement and rapt attention to ATC.

The plan is fly to Port Hardy on the north end of Vancouver Island after clearing customs at Abbotsford (Class D, piece of cake), but it seems far simpler to cross the strait from Port Angeles and clear at Nanaimo.

John Siebold
Boise, ID

RV7ator said:

I'm an N-pilot needing some help from C-pilots. How big a library must I purchase and carry to navigate around and avoid entry into the B, and C airspaces smothering these two cities? I have the Vancouver VFR navigation chart, but it's woefully inadequate because it doesn't show floor and ceiling of all the various fragments as do FAA sectionals. My 795 will delineate boundaries and altitudes of each, but no mention of contact/no contact stratifications that may exist within.

Does yet another $20 chart - the Victoria terminal - have everything I need? I've no fear of ATC, but I'd much rather not be involved, preferring sight-seeing and conversation with my pax than confinement and rapt attention to ATC.

The plan is fly to Port Hardy on the north end of Vancouver Island after clearing customs at Abbotsford (Class D, piece of cake), but it seems far simpler to cross the strait from Port Angeles and clear at Nanaimo.

John Siebold
Boise, ID

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I've done the Port Angeles crossing a couple of times and used Victoria for customs, which has always been exceptionally easy. The water crossing is only about 10 miles.

You need to be in touch with ATC to cross the border, and the Canadians eh just vectored me straight down the lake for a right turn onto Runway 9, which seems to be their main runway.

I did it all on the US Seattle sectional.... I simply asked for vectors and was treated well by the tower/approach.

On the return trip I used Port Townsend upon recommendation from the Victoria folks and had great, fast US Customs service, as well as tasty pies in the airport café.

My destination there was Powell River, about half way to Port Hardy, but on the mainland. Interestingly, Canadian fuel prices are not out of line at the present given the exchange rate.... no need to tanker fuel across the border...

You want the Vancouver VFR Terminal Area (VTA) chart. It has the airspace boundaries, including floor and ceiling, and provides the frequencies for each airspace if you need to enter it.

Better idea

You must have an ipad no? Ipad with foreflight with the included US data will include most if not all you need for the airspace info.

I am in Canada and the included US free stuff covers all the stuff in Canada that covers most of the populated areas and a few hundred miles into Canada.

Get an ipad, if you dont have it. Will be perfect.

Paper charts?? Are those like record player? Heard of them

The Vancouver VTA would be a good idea. If you're planning on clearing at abbotsford the best way to avoid too much radio work is to fly north to the mountains and through vancouver harbor. You will be out of harbors airspace if you stay north of the main highway (the upper levels), but harbor is very relaxed as they mainly just deal with the float plane base downtown vancouver. If you follow the mainland there is an airport every 10 minutes, Sechelt, Powel River, Gillies bay, Campbell River, and Comox. Just watch for the restricted airspace around Comox, it's an airforce base.

Victoria's easy too. Just talk to terminal and they'll bring you all the way in, just know the call points or have them pre loaded on your 795. Leaving, let them know your intentions to port hardy and they'll be with you or hand you off to who ever you need to talk to. Looking at the airspace it does look intimidating, but the controllers are great, and when they hear the N number I'm sure they'll assume that you're unfamiliar with the airspace and will help you out.

Feel free to stop by Pitt Meadows on your way, fuel sale at the aeroclub every 3rd sunday of the month. Usually around 1.65/litre or 6.27/gallon. Around here that's a **** of a deal. You can usually find a bit cheaper on the Island, Nanaimo's flying club is usually one of the cheapest.

You only need the Vancouver VTA and the Vancouver VNC to be legal. You may also want a Canadian Flight Supplement for airport info.

The free Fltplan Go has all of these with the exception of the CFS approach procedures which can be downloaded in a separate binder within the app. This is actually a bug in Fltplan go, since these pages are in the paper CFS, indexed by airport, but don't appear in the app's CFS pages.

The best work around is to contact the airport early and tell them you are unfamiliar...


Don't forget to file EAPIS, notify customs in advance and use a flight plan.

Wave as you pass over CYYJ (Victoria). I'm on the downwind for 09.

vlittle said:

Don't forget to file EAPIS, notify customs in advance and use a flight plan.

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Perhaps more important: Don't forget to OPEN your flight plan when you depart to cross the border. Many pilots, even US pilots, file the flight plan but then forget to activate it before crossing the border into Canada.

Every second day I see a report of a US-registered aircraft flying into Canada without an active flight plan, only to find later that one was filed but not opened.

Thanks, guys. I'll get the VTA chart. I know about fltplan, skyvector, and the like for on-the-ground planning. No iPad, thank you; tried that years ago and laughed it off as unsuited for the cockpit. I've operated in Canada before, so I'm familiar with border crossing prototcol.

Much of my consternation will be assuaged with developing familiarity with the Canadian presentation. Took awhile with Oz charts, too. I must say, though, that by not giving George III the boot when we Yanks did, Canadian bureaucratic overreach is further developed by 240 years and it shows up in necessary flight information being scattered about - even on the same paper, immense airspace grabs, and operational hindrance. Hate to think that's where the USA is headed, too.

John Siebold
Boise, ID

Legality

vlittle said:

You only need the Vancouver VTA and the Vancouver VNC to be legal. You may also want a Canadian Flight Supplement for airport info.
........

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Interesting legal question.

Are you legal flying in the Canadian Airspace using a current US Sectional if it covers the area?

Do the Canadian regs require Canadian documentation, or just up-to-date information/charts?

Foul:

Please review Posting Rule #3.

RV-4 said:

John

''I must say, though, that by not giving George III the boot when we Yanks did, Canadian bureaucratic overreach is further developed by 240 years and it shows up in necessary flight information being scattered about - even on the same paper, immense airspace grabs, and operational hindrance. Hate to think that's where the USA is headed, too.''

You got that one right....

Bruno
[email protected]

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Requirements for Power-driven Aircraft
602.60 (1) No person shall conduct a take-off in a power-driven aircraft, other than an ultra-light aeroplane, unless the following operational and emergency equip- ment is carried on board:
(a) a checklist or placards that enable the aircraft to be operated in accordance with limitations specified in the aircraft flight manual, aircraft operating manual, pilot operating handbook or any equivalent document provided by the manufacturer;
(b) all of the necessary current aeronautical charts and publications covering the route of the proposed flight and any probable diversionary route, if the aircraft is operated in VFR OTT, night VFR flight or IFR flight;


No mention of day VFR, so it is technically legal to fly without any charts ( but not a good idea)!

vlittle said:

Requirements for Power-driven Aircraft
602.60 (1) No person shall conduct a take-off in a power-driven aircraft, other than an ultra-light aeroplane, unless the following operational and emergency equip- ment is carried on board:
(a) a checklist or placards that enable the aircraft to be operated in accordance with limitations specified in the aircraft flight manual, aircraft operating manual, pilot operating handbook or any equivalent document provided by the manufacturer;
(b) all of the necessary current aeronautical charts and publications covering the route of the proposed flight and any probable diversionary route, if the aircraft is operated in VFR OTT, night VFR flight or IFR flight;


No mention of day VFR, so it is technically legal to fly without any charts ( but not a good idea)!

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Sounds like a current Seattle sectional would not violate the rules for a VFR flight to Victoria...

Thanks Vern, I'll buy you a pint at the Bard and Banker next time I fly to Victoria...

az_gila said:

Sounds like a current Seattle sectional would not violate the rules for a VFR flight to Victoria...

Thanks Vern, I'll buy you a pint at the Bard and Banker next time I fly to Victoria...

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...i personally don't fly in this area without the VTA open and on my lap. It is the most complex airspace in Canada.

vlittle said:

...i personally don't fly in this area without the VTA open and on my lap. It is the most complex airspace in Canada.

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The Seattle Terminal Area Chart will get you to Nanaimo and is easier for us S. of the border to read...

The N reg. call sign helps with ATC...

Get the Canadian subscription

So to add to what the fellow Canadians have said already if you do have an ipad and you do have foreflight you will make this much more simple on yourself by getting the Canadian subscription because it includes the complete CFS and all charts including All VTA, VNC and will allow you to switch between them when zoomed in on a particular terminal area.

Hope that helps

Michael B.

C-FWMB reserved
College fund paid up

1bigdog said:

So to add to what the fellow Canadians have said already if you do have an ipad and you do have foreflight you will make this much more simple on yourself by getting the Canadian subscription because it includes the complete CFS and all charts including All VTA, VNC and will allow you to switch between them when zoomed in on a particular terminal area.

Hope that helps

Michael B.

C-FWMB reserved
College fund paid up

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I looked at that, but the cost is high for a once in a year trip to Powell River via Victoria starting in the Sequim WA area....

The cost of Canadian content in Foreflight is high even if you're Canadian and always fly in Canadian airspace...