Van's Air Force
Don't miss anything! Register now for full access to the definitive RV support community.
DYNON HSI Released
- Thread starter Brantel
- Start date
HSI - horizontal situation indicator - is a very intuitive format for displaying magnetic heading, desired course/selected radial and course deviation. Most helpful in tracking VOR's and localizers!
Typical "old" indication came in the form of an course deviation indicator (CDI). What most associate with a VOR display. Dial in your desired radial, and you will see a vertically oriented needle deflected according to your relative position from that radial.
Takes fair amount of spatial awareness to work effectively with the CDI display since one can fairly easily get "reverse sensing". HSI is much more user friendly and intuitive.
With analog/mechanical displays, HSIs are 5-10 times the cost of a CDI. Hence they are generally in the nicer planes. With electronic display systems, HSI is no more costly than any other format.
Typical "old" indication came in the form of an course deviation indicator (CDI). What most associate with a VOR display. Dial in your desired radial, and you will see a vertically oriented needle deflected according to your relative position from that radial.
Takes fair amount of spatial awareness to work effectively with the CDI display since one can fairly easily get "reverse sensing". HSI is much more user friendly and intuitive.
With analog/mechanical displays, HSIs are 5-10 times the cost of a CDI. Hence they are generally in the nicer planes. With electronic display systems, HSI is no more costly than any other format.
Gsuit
Well Known Member
HSI = Horizontal Situation Indicator
It's like mixing a CDI, DG, and ILS all in one, but with a much more enhanced interoperability with your various nav radios. Most certified GA aircraft have a CDI, and most HSI's are ex-pensive in comparison!
So, you want one because it gives you higher situational awareness when flying on the airways and shooting approaches. It's a good instrument. And adding it to any EFIS is even better!
(there's a lot more to this - but I've just provided a direct answer to your question)
It's like mixing a CDI, DG, and ILS all in one, but with a much more enhanced interoperability with your various nav radios. Most certified GA aircraft have a CDI, and most HSI's are ex-pensive in comparison!
So, you want one because it gives you higher situational awareness when flying on the airways and shooting approaches. It's a good instrument. And adding it to any EFIS is even better!
(there's a lot more to this - but I've just provided a direct answer to your question)
We added a lot more to the software as well, such as winds aloft when you have a GPS, better AoA alarms, MPG and range on the EMS, flap and trim indicators, and shock cooling alarms.
Here's our update page:
http://dynonavionics.com/docs/support_software_200610.html
Feel free to head over to our forums and tell us what to do next
Here's our update page:
http://dynonavionics.com/docs/support_software_200610.html
Feel free to head over to our forums and tell us what to do next
frankh
Well Known Member
OK so...
I loved the simulator...Pretty cool thanks
So if thing works and "prevents" reverse sensing then I guess if I had GS (only available if you have an SL30 which I don't) then it makes the 1600 dollar nav head/GS slope meter pretty redundant?
I guess if the EFIS goes AWOL I still have the GNS430 and Nav head as the backup.
Frank
I loved the simulator...Pretty cool thanks
So if thing works and "prevents" reverse sensing then I guess if I had GS (only available if you have an SL30 which I don't) then it makes the 1600 dollar nav head/GS slope meter pretty redundant?
I guess if the EFIS goes AWOL I still have the GNS430 and Nav head as the backup.
Frank
frankh
Well Known Member
Another head scratcher
How exactly do you calculate the winds aloft from the GPS when you don't know the performance of the airplane?
I mean if you have a 50 kt headwind surely the GPS system would just assume I was flying a Cessna...I.e low TAS....
Very cool features by the way...At least they will be when you get my dead D100 repaired and returned to me .....
Frank
dynonsupport said:
How exactly do you calculate the winds aloft from the GPS when you don't know the performance of the airplane?
I mean if you have a 50 kt headwind surely the GPS system would just assume I was flying a Cessna...I.e low TAS....
Very cool features by the way...At least they will be when you get my dead D100 repaired and returned to me ..
...Frank
Jamie
Well Known Member
Nope...it won't work with the 430 at all. The 430 does not have serial output of the GPS data like the SL-30. This is why the SL-30 is almost always supported first on new EFIS designs -- it's a heck of a lot easier. For now the Dynon appears to only support the SL-30.frankh said:
Clarification: you can most likely have the Dynon display GPS course data from the 430, but not NAV data.
Last edited:
frankh
Well Known Member
CAS?
As the unit is reading IAS then it seems one needs to calibrate this to get get correct winds aloft. In theory the EFIS could put in a calibration factor...I.e you fly 3 different headings and the EFIS cancels out the error.
Otherwise the EFIS will be using incorrect data.
Thoughts
Frank
Jamie said:
As the unit is reading IAS then it seems one needs to calibrate this to get get correct winds aloft. In theory the EFIS could put in a calibration factor...I.e you fly 3 different headings and the EFIS cancels out the error.
Otherwise the EFIS will be using incorrect data.
Thoughts
Frank
Jamie
Well Known Member
Ok, Frank. I think I'm understanding what you're saying. CAS is IAS adjusted for position error or instrumentation errors across the entire range of speeds. Since we never do that calibration, we never achieve CAS so we never *really* get a strict definition of TAS so the winds aloft data is not going to be absolutely precise.
Gotcha.
My limited understanding of this speed stuff tells me that for the speed range of our aircraft this is not a big deal, but is a much bigger deal for faster/higher aircraft.
Gotcha.
My limited understanding of this speed stuff tells me that for the speed range of our aircraft this is not a big deal, but is a much bigger deal for faster/higher aircraft.
Hmmmm.....
I really hadn't been following the Dynon HSI, as I'm already heavily invested in GRT - but I can tell you that the GRT works seamlessly with the 430, including all HSI functionality. The 430 uses a serial out RS-232 datastream to link to the GRT....maybe the Dynon is using a newer standard?
Paul
Jamie said:
I really hadn't been following the Dynon HSI, as I'm already heavily invested in GRT - but I can tell you that the GRT works seamlessly with the 430, including all HSI functionality. The 430 uses a serial out RS-232 datastream to link to the GRT....maybe the Dynon is using a newer standard?
Paul
The GNS430 will do the GPS output over serial just fine. We can read the GPS portion no problem, showing you all sorts of nifty stuff. We can do this with basically any GPS, including a Garmin X96.
The GNS430 will not output anything from the NAV radio via serial. If you can get an HSI from the NAV on your GRT unit, you're using ARINC-429 or an analog connection the radio, not serial. The 3X+ the price gets you these interfaces.
The SL-30 is the only NAV radio we support today, because it's the most popular of the very, very few units that will do NAV over serial. We'll need to add some sort of hardware before we can get NAV data from other radios, including the Garmin GNS430.
As for winds aloft, we do it using TAS, just like everyone else. This uses altitude, airspeed, and OAT to get this speed. We've been showing TAS and density alititude on the EFIS for years now. Yes, this has some error as you go really fast, but our target market is RV's and other recip aircraft. TAS is pretty darn accurate, and our beta customers have told us that the winds aloft work well, assuming your compass is well calibrated.
The GNS430 will not output anything from the NAV radio via serial. If you can get an HSI from the NAV on your GRT unit, you're using ARINC-429 or an analog connection the radio, not serial. The 3X+ the price gets you these interfaces.
The SL-30 is the only NAV radio we support today, because it's the most popular of the very, very few units that will do NAV over serial. We'll need to add some sort of hardware before we can get NAV data from other radios, including the Garmin GNS430.
As for winds aloft, we do it using TAS, just like everyone else. This uses altitude, airspeed, and OAT to get this speed. We've been showing TAS and density alititude on the EFIS for years now. Yes, this has some error as you go really fast, but our target market is RV's and other recip aircraft. TAS is pretty darn accurate, and our beta customers have told us that the winds aloft work well, assuming your compass is well calibrated.
hevansrv7a
Well Known Member
GRT does CAS
I mean no disrespect to Dynon. It's a good product at a terrific price.
I merely wish to point out that GRT has a function for calibrating your TAS to various airspeeds from low to high so that the IAS and TAS will be accurate. It is based on flying directly upwind and downwind and comparing to GPS. It's prompted and self-actualizing. You just need to follow its directions. This ends up filling in a table for correction factors. This is only available in version 28D and beyond.
Of course, the GRT first helps you figure out what heading is directly upwind and downwind. Your OAT, altitude, etc. must all be pretty close before this can work. I have been watching mine and I think it's OK plus or minus 1 kt. Close enough for me.
I mean no disrespect to Dynon. It's a good product at a terrific price.
I merely wish to point out that GRT has a function for calibrating your TAS to various airspeeds from low to high so that the IAS and TAS will be accurate. It is based on flying directly upwind and downwind and comparing to GPS. It's prompted and self-actualizing. You just need to follow its directions. This ends up filling in a table for correction factors. This is only available in version 28D and beyond.
Of course, the GRT first helps you figure out what heading is directly upwind and downwind. Your OAT, altitude, etc. must all be pretty close before this can work. I have been watching mine and I think it's OK plus or minus 1 kt. Close enough for me.
We'll add calibration for our TAS in the future if it seems to be needed. So far, our beta testers have seen pretty good correlation betweeen TAS and ground speed, and we've had years of people using it without complaint.
FYI, the GRT system doesn't cal IAS, since that would mess up correlation with other things in the plane. It only cals TAS, but that's what matters for winds, and would be the same thing we would do if needed.
FYI, the GRT system doesn't cal IAS, since that would mess up correlation with other things in the plane. It only cals TAS, but that's what matters for winds, and would be the same thing we would do if needed.
mgomez
Well Known Member
Don't confuse OBS and heading
No, the OBS (omni bearing selector) is not the same thing as heading. The OBS is the knob on a nav head that you use to tell it which radial of the VOR you're interested in tracking. I'm guessing that the compass rose will still rotate to indicate heading regardless of what radios are installed. It won't be stuck at North.
So I don't know how it works with the 430, but with the SL-30 -- if I understood the HSI pages in the manual -- you have to use the knobs on the SL-30 to select the radial. This is different than mechanical HSIs or pricier EHSIs, in which there's a knob on the instrument itself that you turn to select the radial.
frankh said:
No, the OBS (omni bearing selector) is not the same thing as heading. The OBS is the knob on a nav head that you use to tell it which radial of the VOR you're interested in tracking. I'm guessing that the compass rose will still rotate to indicate heading regardless of what radios are installed. It won't be stuck at North.
So I don't know how it works with the 430, but with the SL-30 -- if I understood the HSI pages in the manual -- you have to use the knobs on the SL-30 to select the radial. This is different than mechanical HSIs or pricier EHSIs, in which there's a knob on the instrument itself that you turn to select the radial.
vlittle
Well Known Member
dynonsupport said:We added a lot more to the software as well, such as winds aloft when you have a GPS, better AoA alarms, MPG and range on the EMS, flap and trim indicators, and shock cooling alarms.
Here's our update page:
http://dynonavionics.com/docs/support_software_200610.html
Feel free to head over to our forums and tell us what to do next
I intend on connecting my G296 to the D10A even though I won't use it for the HSI. The 296 has an HSI display that I'll use, and keep the D10A in AI mode so I can see all my flight information.
The promise that the D10A clock will finally be accurate is nice, and I like the ability to get wind data.
Finally, I'm hoping that for the D10A, Dynon will release a single page display that will combine HSI with AI and flight information. I'm willing to give up the heading tape, altitude tape and maybe a few other things (that can be moved to a second page) in order to have the unified display.
I know Dynon does not think this is possible, because of screen clutter, but I think that it could be managed with judicious selection of data fields by the pilot.
Vern Little
You do need to use the knob on the SL-30 to adjust your OBS setting. We only have inputs programmed right now on the EFIS, so we can't send out a signal to the SL-30 for the OBS. It's not all bad, since the knob on the SL-30 is a pretty good dedicated interface for the OBS.
You're Correct!
You're absolutely correct....I wasn't thinking about the fact that the actual VHF Nav info goes over the analog lines. The GPS stuff goes across the serial.
Paul
dynonsupport said:
You're absolutely correct....I wasn't thinking about the fact that the actual VHF Nav info goes over the analog lines. The GPS stuff goes across the serial.
Paul
Lots of new and improved!
Wow. This thread has my head spinning. I'm computer semi-literate (barely), and haven't flown since glass was a glimmer in the Big Irons eye. Whats out there now for us little guys is amazing and just keeps getting better!
I hope in several years when I'm ready, it will be plug-n-play, and using the stuff will be intuitive - which is pretty much the only reason I can get around a computer as well as I can!
Wow. This thread has my head spinning. I'm computer semi-literate (barely), and haven't flown since glass was a glimmer in the Big Irons eye. Whats out there now for us little guys is amazing and just keeps getting better!
I hope in several years when I'm ready, it will be plug-n-play, and using the stuff will be intuitive - which is pretty much the only reason I can get around a computer as well as I can!
hevansrv7a
Well Known Member
True: GRT not IAS. just TAS
True - my error. Since the internal table is only correcting TAS using IAS and the other factors. I forgot it was a unidirectional calculation. Thanks.dynonsupport said:
JonathanCook
Well Known Member
GRT Sport
Just to get the word out GRT has a sport version for only $2800.
Just to get the word out GRT has a sport version for only $2800.
Paul Eastham
Well Known Member
Here are some photos on the D10A:
Very cool...my EFIS/EMS combo now does a lot more than it did when I bought it. Thanks to the pop-up EMS alerts and cross-device displays, I plan to keep the HSI up on the bottom screen en-route.
Very cool...my EFIS/EMS combo now does a lot more than it did when I bought it. Thanks to the pop-up EMS alerts and cross-device displays, I plan to keep the HSI up on the bottom screen en-route.
Jamie
Well Known Member
Yep...I wish Dynon would add RPM and MP on the HSI screen and/or on the EFIS screen. It seems silly not to make it an option. There must a some technical reason for not doing it.Paul Eastham said:
I connected mine up as well. I have my GX-50 GPS powering it. Anyone know why I'm not getting all the fancy stuff? The GX-50 is running in simulation mode, so maybe that's why? In the simulation mode, I have the altitude set to 6000 but the Dynon is displaying 0000. It looks like I'm only getting GS and ground track information. According to the GX-50 manual, all the other stuff should be in the serial stream. Does anyone know if this is just flagged and not transmitted when in simulation mode?
There's no technical reason that we don't show MAP and TACH on the EFIS, it just didn't make it into this release. Every change to the code takes a lot of testing, so we can't just dump everything in at once or we'd never get any software out. It is high on our wish list for future software updates.
We are going to need to figure out where to stuff it on the screen though.
We are going to need to figure out where to stuff it on the screen though.
Paul Eastham
Well Known Member
dynonsupport said:
Great! That'll make my EFIS/HSI display just perfect. You guys rule.
As for where to stuff it on the screen, you could imagine a multi-mode HSI display, one with some EMS data and one with the GPS data (like it is now). After all, normal HSI's don't show all that GPS data...
(I'd settle for just TACH, by the way...and even just a numeric readout would be better than nothing)
Last edited:
Paul, as for the GX-50, you'll need to set up the output as MovMap and turn off extended data.
Even in this mode, some things may not work. Apollo did a lot of non-standard things like outputting pressure altitude, not MSL altitude, and we don't support that. You'll probably never see altitude.
Overall we don't directly support the GX-50 today, but we'll add it to our list of non-standard GPS units to analyze. We would very much like to hear how it works for you once you fly it for a few hours.
Even in this mode, some things may not work. Apollo did a lot of non-standard things like outputting pressure altitude, not MSL altitude, and we don't support that. You'll probably never see altitude.
Overall we don't directly support the GX-50 today, but we'll add it to our list of non-standard GPS units to analyze. We would very much like to hear how it works for you once you fly it for a few hours.
the_other_dougreeves
Well Known Member
Are you not using the split screen option? I know it's not the same as just displaying a few parameters on the HSI screen.Jamie said:
Paul Eastham
Well Known Member
the_other_dougreeves said:
Not available on the smaller-screen models...yet?
Re: Tach / Map on the EFIS: Info items is quite possibly where it will go.
As for the mention of split-screen on a D10 product, it is not likely to happen. There is just not enough area or pixels to make that work well. It's been considered before but isn't currently planned.
As for the mention of split-screen on a D10 product, it is not likely to happen. There is just not enough area or pixels to make that work well. It's been considered before but isn't currently planned.
Paul Eastham
Well Known Member
RV7Guy said:
Free download, though you do need to wire in your GPS or NAV line...
jeff beckley
Well Known Member
It is too bad that Dynon has decided not to support the 430 yet. I went with Blue Moutain because the G4 will take analog input as well as serial. At first the G4 line would not accept OBS data from analog sources but with the most recent updates I have a fully functioning HSI. It does have a built in OBS resolver so I make my OBS slection right from the EFIS. I almost chose the GRT but it required a 429 converter to talk to the 430 and flying autopilot was doggiy at best. At least with the Blue Moutain G4 it will accept all nav data from the 430 so it will fly the route,glide slope,localizer,back course ect..
I just don't like being limited to just one radio as the SL30. GPS approches are important to me.
I just don't like being limited to just one radio as the SL30. GPS approches are important to me.
Jeff,
We do support the 430 via serial. True, not the NAV portion, but the GPS portion is supported.
We didn't choose to just support the SL-30, it was the only radio possible. We are releasing a FREE firmware update to our products for people that have had units from us for years. We are stuck with the hardware we have today, and it's not possible to support anything but the SL-30 with our hardware, since the SL-30 is the only radio out there that talks serial.
True, this means we can't support everything out there, but it also means we continue to enhance the usability of our devices for customers that have had our products for years, not just months or days.
The cheapest units out there that support OBS resolvers cost 75% more than our products, so there's a real financial difference as well. With Dynon, most customers are getting way more than they originally paid for, and they can have faith they will continue to get even more in the future.
We do support the 430 via serial. True, not the NAV portion, but the GPS portion is supported.
We didn't choose to just support the SL-30, it was the only radio possible. We are releasing a FREE firmware update to our products for people that have had units from us for years. We are stuck with the hardware we have today, and it's not possible to support anything but the SL-30 with our hardware, since the SL-30 is the only radio out there that talks serial.
True, this means we can't support everything out there, but it also means we continue to enhance the usability of our devices for customers that have had our products for years, not just months or days.
The cheapest units out there that support OBS resolvers cost 75% more than our products, so there's a real financial difference as well. With Dynon, most customers are getting way more than they originally paid for, and they can have faith they will continue to get even more in the future.
CarlosF@grtavionics
Active Member
GRT Sport HSI
Just to clarify, the GRT Sport has an HSI when using an SL30. It also has a separate GPS CDI on the PFD and MAP/HSI page when using the internal or an external GPS.
Thanks,
Carlos
Just to clarify, the GRT Sport has an HSI when using an SL30. It also has a separate GPS CDI on the PFD and MAP/HSI page when using the internal or an external GPS.
Thanks,
Carlos
Last edited:
You might want to update your information, since it indicates no HSI on the sport product:
http://www.grtavionics.com/documents/EFIS%20Flyer%20Sun%20n%20Fun%202006.pdf
http://www.grtavionics.com/documents/EFIS%20Flyer%20Sun%20n%20Fun%202006.pdf
mgomez
Well Known Member
What are the bugs for?
Hi,
I noticed that the Dynon EFISs have user-settable bugs for altitude, heading, and airspeed. What are they for? I guess they're reminders for the pilot? There's no interface to an autopilot, is there?
With that in mind, can I request a feature? It would be great if the value of the three bugs were output on the serial port. I might want to a) make "notes" in the telemetry data during flight test, b) make my own a/p some day.
Yes, I'm a geek...and proud of it.
Thanks,
Martin
Hi,
I noticed that the Dynon EFISs have user-settable bugs for altitude, heading, and airspeed. What are they for? I guess they're reminders for the pilot? There's no interface to an autopilot, is there?
With that in mind, can I request a feature? It would be great if the value of the three bugs were output on the serial port. I might want to a) make "notes" in the telemetry data during flight test, b) make my own a/p some day.
Yes, I'm a geek...and proud of it.
Thanks,
Martin
