wjfredericks4
I'm New Here
Hi Vans Community,
I'm new this this forum. (I did read the 'Read Me First'). I should introduce myself first. I have been flying since I was 13 years old. I'm a private pilot rated in gliders, single engine, multi engine, and instrument rating. I have about 850 hrs total time. I currently own a 1978 Piper PA-32 Lance. I used a Mooney M20J, which I loved that airplane, but when my wife and I had our second child, we couldn't fit in the Mooney any more. My wife, 2 kids in car seats, dog, and all of our bags simply would not fit in a 4-seater.
Additionally, in recent years, I have become much more interested in experimental amateur built. I’m now a lifetime EAA member too. Great magazine and I love Oshkosh each summer but I don’t get a chance to make it there much anymore. One recent factor is that I read the article in AOPA Pilot about the C182 vs. RV-10 and the RV-10 performed better than the C182 in every respect. Additionally, the new technology that is only available in the experimental market I believe will actually make for a safer airplane too.
I would like to see a modern replacement for the Piper PA-32 Lance/Saratoga and the Cessna 210 Centurion and the Beechcraft A36 Bonanza that is designed by Vans.
Key targets:
-6 seats in a club seating configuration in the back so my wife can have easy access to all the kids.
-1,400 lbs useful load (600 lbs of people, 200 lbs of bags/dogs, 100 gal of gas)
-Lycoming IO-580 (or similar) (~315 hp) (full FADEC and digital ignition would be great too)
-175 KTAS cruise speed @ 65% power (~205 hp) @ ~8,000 ft (more would be better but let’s be careful to not over compromise other areas of the design to get a few more knots). Those that want turbo charging could go higher and faster too.
-55 kt stall speed in landing configuration. (Note I think 61 kts is a bit too fast in the event of an off airport landing, kinetic energy is velocity squared, so reducing stall speed by 6 kts is 19% less energy to dissipate)
-‘RV Total Performance’ (handling qualities, easy of build, robust design, etc.)
-Retractable landing gear for the performance benefits, but I understand that RVs have always been fixed gear to date. A compromise would be to retract only the nose wheel. The nose wheel has more drag than the two mains combined. I would also be open to a 'conventional gear' (aka tail dragger) to mitigate the drag of the nose wheel.
-This would make for an awesome and affordable cross country airplane. 175 KTAS at ~14 gph with 100 gal of gas would be over 7 hours and over 1,200 nm of range. Granted reserves need to be subtracted from these numbers.
I would like to know how many other people would be interested in a 6-seat quick build kit from Vans? Please sound off with your thoughts on this topic. Do you think the above listed Key Targets are about right, or would you propose something different? Ideally this fosters lots of discussion and Van’s would view this as an informal petition to develop a 6-seater after they finish the high wing bush plane. I have decided, if Vans developed this kit, I will absolutely buy it. Who else would buy it?
Merry Christmas and Happy New Year,
Bill Fredericks
Williamsburg, VA
I'm new this this forum. (I did read the 'Read Me First'). I should introduce myself first. I have been flying since I was 13 years old. I'm a private pilot rated in gliders, single engine, multi engine, and instrument rating. I have about 850 hrs total time. I currently own a 1978 Piper PA-32 Lance. I used a Mooney M20J, which I loved that airplane, but when my wife and I had our second child, we couldn't fit in the Mooney any more. My wife, 2 kids in car seats, dog, and all of our bags simply would not fit in a 4-seater.
Additionally, in recent years, I have become much more interested in experimental amateur built. I’m now a lifetime EAA member too. Great magazine and I love Oshkosh each summer but I don’t get a chance to make it there much anymore. One recent factor is that I read the article in AOPA Pilot about the C182 vs. RV-10 and the RV-10 performed better than the C182 in every respect. Additionally, the new technology that is only available in the experimental market I believe will actually make for a safer airplane too.
I would like to see a modern replacement for the Piper PA-32 Lance/Saratoga and the Cessna 210 Centurion and the Beechcraft A36 Bonanza that is designed by Vans.
Key targets:
-6 seats in a club seating configuration in the back so my wife can have easy access to all the kids.
-1,400 lbs useful load (600 lbs of people, 200 lbs of bags/dogs, 100 gal of gas)
-Lycoming IO-580 (or similar) (~315 hp) (full FADEC and digital ignition would be great too)
-175 KTAS cruise speed @ 65% power (~205 hp) @ ~8,000 ft (more would be better but let’s be careful to not over compromise other areas of the design to get a few more knots). Those that want turbo charging could go higher and faster too.
-55 kt stall speed in landing configuration. (Note I think 61 kts is a bit too fast in the event of an off airport landing, kinetic energy is velocity squared, so reducing stall speed by 6 kts is 19% less energy to dissipate)
-‘RV Total Performance’ (handling qualities, easy of build, robust design, etc.)
-Retractable landing gear for the performance benefits, but I understand that RVs have always been fixed gear to date. A compromise would be to retract only the nose wheel. The nose wheel has more drag than the two mains combined. I would also be open to a 'conventional gear' (aka tail dragger) to mitigate the drag of the nose wheel.
-This would make for an awesome and affordable cross country airplane. 175 KTAS at ~14 gph with 100 gal of gas would be over 7 hours and over 1,200 nm of range. Granted reserves need to be subtracted from these numbers.
I would like to know how many other people would be interested in a 6-seat quick build kit from Vans? Please sound off with your thoughts on this topic. Do you think the above listed Key Targets are about right, or would you propose something different? Ideally this fosters lots of discussion and Van’s would view this as an informal petition to develop a 6-seater after they finish the high wing bush plane. I have decided, if Vans developed this kit, I will absolutely buy it. Who else would buy it?
Merry Christmas and Happy New Year,
Bill Fredericks
Williamsburg, VA