Kirk,

The magnetometer is built in to the SkyView AHRS, so there is no need for the EDC you have today. On top of that, all AHRS units come with an OAT in the price, and they have a different connector on them, so it's probably easier to use the new one (but yes, they are electrically compatible)
 
Went back and looked at the top down page some more...Not as bad as I first thought. An idea for improvement might be to decouple the heading arc from the TD map and make it more real time and smooth.
 
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Brantel said:
The top down terrain page with the heading arc has a horrible update rate. That would drive me crazy...
Click to expand...

It probably depends on the map range. I seem to recall they are using a terrain database with about 10-100 times smaller resolution than some others. Showing a greater range would cause it to slow down if they aren't "toggling" to a scaled database (e.g. if showing bigger map, use database "B" with only one data point per 500' as opposed to database "A" with 1 data point each 20', or whatever it is).

My guess is that that is one of those things they will tweak over time.
 
Update rate

Regarding the update rate on the top down terrain "map page". Actually, the update rate is one of the things we are quite proud of. It is much more powerful than it has to be, this is for future flexibility and smooth synthetic vision, which is the real reason you need the horse power. The range (zoom) that the map is set to does not have a real impact on the smoothness. The best way to experience this is to see it in real life at an air show. When there are more people flying SkyView there will be much chatter about things of this nature and we welcome it. The proof is in the pudding, and we are anxious to see folks experience it for themselves and tell their friends.

Nick
 
Boy, Brian, you know how to put a damper on a party! :) Seriously, I think the effect you are looking at has more to do with video camera interaction. You won't find a faster or smoother map out there. It is certainly a lot faster than my Garmin. But hey, I'm the marketing guy, you'll just have to see one in person.

Todd, pricing is available on our Website at www.dynonavionics.com. We are taking orders starting on Tuesday, December 1.

Robert
Dynon Marketing
 
SkyViex

I love new technology and I'm blown away by Dynon's new SkyView system. I'm sure there are other builders out there that have
purchased magnetometers and OAT senders for Dynon's D-100 (which I was going to install) I suppose these items will still have
some residual value in the second hand (but not used) market.
 
You know I went back and looked at that video again and really watched that top down map page and it is not as bad as I first thought.....

An idea for improving it might be to decouple the heading arc from the map to make it more real time.
 
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arc ring range

what it looks like Brantel is referring to when the operator is changing the arc ring range and the map snaps to a new zoom level... it is hard to see at first but the operator is changing the range (displayed in the lower right corner of the display) about every second whenever it is being adjusted. there is never any mention in the voice over that it is being adjusted but in some views you get a glimpse of the control being manipulated.
 
I am sold from the video. I thought was extremely fluid. And at a fourth of the price I paid for BMA/EFIS One.
 
[email protected] said:
what it looks like Brantel is referring to when the operator is changing the arc ring range and the map snaps to a new zoom level...
Click to expand...

Can't speak for Brantel, but I thought he was referring to about 2:48-2:53 in the video. No range changing there and the top down map looks like it's only being updated at about 5 Hz or so; definitely doesn't look smooth.

All the segments showing the PFD look nice and smooth, which makes it seem like it is not a video artifact.

--Paul
 
Couple Questions

1. The horizon line seems very light in the video. Is it more pronounced in real life? Can it's brightness be adjusted?

2. Does the gyro stabilized compass also serve as a CDI for GPS or Nav?
 
Re: Top-down map: I was going to mention it but didn't. The other factor is simply the GPS update rate. You can use any common GPS feed to drive the map position/ground track/etc. Our GPS is 5Hz which is nice. But this is why I mentioned that the computer is much better than "what is needed" it is many times faster than any GPS. The cool thing though is as GPS technology improves (there are 10Hz and rumors of 20Hz models), we can snap it right in to the system and it will be that much smoother.

Re: The horizon line being light: Yes, it is more pronounced in real life. The video can only do so much. One of those things that can only be experienced in person. Also, synthetic vision presents a unique color palette. But if you want the traditional blue/brown, you can simply toggle synthetic vision off.

Re: Gyro stabilized compass: Yes, we will (quickly) add a full HSI to the compass rose, much like our existing products (e.g. D100), so you can expect all those features in SkyView too. Each software release will be like getting a new toy. The only one we plan to charge $$ for is the mapping software, so just like in our D100 family of products; you will keep getting the latest we have to offer.

Nick
 
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nav data?

Will the addition of the mapping software add mapping data the synthetic vision or just the top down map? I am assuming the mapping software will add GPS type data (streets, airspace, etc.) to the top down map so I can have all my navigational data too.
 
Q1) I didnt see any AoA in your video, is this something you are working on ?

Q2) All the split screens are horizontal, will you be able to select some vertical modes, ie SV 80% with engine 20% underneath SV.

thank you
 
nice video!

we are going with AFS3400's new cpu models with slightly different mission/capability in mind.
but i admit, had the new dynons been out/plannable when we had to settle on a decision, it would certainly have been a top contender, especially what features/price ratio is concerned.
just as a data point, as we planned/built the panel completely ourselves, we finalized most decisions about 1.5 years ahead of finisihing the airplane (technically it is done, only needs paint and rigging at the airport). this turned out to be pretty good planning. of course assuming all wiring specs/install manuals are available at the time of planning. and also accounts for the unavoidable delays here and there.

one thing that strikes me in the video (and as a matter of fact a very similar problem to even a top-end g1000 system in a da40) is the nervousness of the speed tape to the point that it is inferior to an analog airspeed indicator/unusable.
dynon should think about putting some smoothing filters over the airspeed indicator... for example it's very important to avoid the constant changing of up-down trends in a narrow, let's say 3kts band. because it will lead to overreaction when trying to "fly by the numbers".

my 20cts,
rgds bernie
 
I agree that the ASI was VERY nervous and hope this will be / can be smoothed out, either by Dynon or by the user.

However, I see a near feature in the new Dynon units that so far, is only offered by ... the Nissan GT-R :) - extensive customization of the engine display. Individual parameters can be displayed by a sweeping round display (looks like a gauge), a line, etc.

For those of you who aren't gearheads, the GT-R is a true supercar made by Nissan that costs less than $100,000. And it has a useful and very customizable EIS. :)

112_0803_13z+2009_nissan_GT-R+top_speed_display.jpg


2009-nissan-gt-r-26.jpg


TODR
 
flyvans.com said:
one thing that strikes me in the video (and as a matter of fact a very similar problem to even a top-end g1000 system in a da40) is the nervousness of the speed tape to the point that it is inferior to an analog airspeed indicator/unusable.
dynon should think about putting some smoothing filters over the airspeed indicator... for example it's very important to avoid the constant changing of up-down trends in a narrow, let's say 3kts band. because it will lead to overreaction when trying to "fly by the numbers".

my 20cts,
rgds bernie
Click to expand...

This sounds just like the Manifold Pressure problem - the digital readout is so sensitive that it registers swings with every gust. It isn't a problem with the instrument.

Simple enough to fix - put a small restrictor in the AS line. Readings will be rock-solid then.
 
breister said:
This sounds just like the Manifold Pressure problem - the digital readout is so sensitive that it registers swings with every gust. It isn't a problem with the instrument.

Simple enough to fix - put a small restrictor in the AS line. Readings will be rock-solid then.
Click to expand...

no, while this is acceptable for the manifold pressure, you wouldn't want an orifice in the pitot/airspeed system.
the idea is to smooth it without introducing much if any lag. there is a difference.

rgds,
bernie
 
breister said:
This sounds just like the Manifold Pressure problem - the digital readout is so sensitive that it registers swings with every gust. It isn't a problem with the instrument.

Simple enough to fix - put a small restrictor in the AS line. Readings will be rock-solid then.
Click to expand...
This should be fixable in the software. There is probably some averaging period for the ASI, VS, ALT, etc. Whether or not it's a user-configurable item is a different matter.

If the digital display is jumping around all the time with just 1-2kt variations, then it's less usable than a round gauge.

TODR
 
my questions

can someone answer these.

I would be looking to order two 7inch units and had questions..?

1. Do I need 2 of everything or can they be integrated together....i.e. GPS (I have 296 now), engine monitors,...

2. Does it have HITS?
3. Does the dual ahrs read each other to double check against attitude errors?
4. With SL 30, would NAV data work on both or would I need 2 sl30s?
5. AOA?
 
Answer to Q's

Answers to some questions from above…

There will be some aviation data on synthetic vision that comes along with the navigation map software, I don’t have a detailed description of which pieces at this time. But runways are an obvious one.

AoA is in there from day one.

All our split screens are horizontal (or vertical, depending on how you think of it).

Regarding customer EMS screen display/widgets. You will be surprised at how flexible they are, we can pretty much do a very similar thing to the Nissan example. The ems layout customization is amazingly flexible, more than we have bothered to emphasize yet.

Re airspeed jumpiness: We tune the airspeed and altitude filters, it will be similar to what we do today in our current products, not to worry, its simple, won’t be a problem.

miyu1975 Q’s

1. Do I need 2 of everything or can they be integrated together....i.e. GPS (I have 296 now), engine monitors,...

One GPS is sufficient. You can connect one unit to both displays, but you may consider a second to have a backup (you would connect both GPSes to each display for premium backup functionality).

2. Does it have HITS?

Not on day one, but we will be adding it.

3. Does the dual ahrs read each other to double check against attitude errors?

"Cross-checking" won’t be part of the first release but we have plans to add that.

4. With SL 30, would NAV data work on both or would I need 2 sl30s?

One SL30 will due. Our SL30 interface will be a software update early to mid year. So plan on the same interface that we do in a D100 today. That is one of the first follow-on items we will be working on.

5. AOA?
See answer above, Yes, AoA is in there.

Nick
 
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Looks like by the time I wear out my new panel full of existing products in 3-4 years, this Skyview gizmo will be getting out of diapers. :p
 
Thank you for the video. It gives some of us 1/2 way accros the globe, that wont be seeing it in real life soon, some insight to its workings.

Regards
Rudi
 
dynonsupport said:
Re: Top-down map: I was going to mention it but didn't. The other factor is simply the GPS update rate. You can use any common GPS feed to drive the map position/ground track/etc. Our GPS is 5Hz which is nice. But this is why I mentioned that the computer is much better than "what is needed" it is many times faster than any GPS. The cool thing though is as GPS technology improves (there are 10Hz and rumors of 20Hz models), we can snap it right in to the system and it will be that much smoother.
Click to expand...

You have all your AHRS data available as well. So why limit yourself to the GPS update rate when displaying the top down map and heading arc?

But this raises another question. The PFD falls back to GPS aiding if pitot data is lost. Does this mean the PFD display goes to GPS rate (like 5Hz) updates without pitot?

--Paul
 
Maps are ground track based. You want straight up to be where you are going, not where you are pointed. So if you point the map at the magnetometer, it makes it hard to fly to a point if there is any wind, since you now have to figure the wind correction angle. This is why we use GPS track, just like every other map out there.

We do hope to blend magnetic heading and GPS data in the future in order to get smoother updates, but this needs to be done carefully, and we haven't gotten there yet.

We think 5Hz is actually very good, and we can handle much more if we get the data source to do it. Most older maps (even a 430) can't update faster than 1Hz since that's as often as they calculate a track. Maybe someone with a 396 will chime in. That thing updates at about 0.2 Hz (every 5 seconds)!

As for GPS fail-over on the PFD, we continue our high update rate over there. We already blend the data between GPS updates, so there is no degradation in update rate.
 
flyvans.com said:
no, while this is acceptable for the manifold pressure, you wouldn't want an orifice in the pitot/airspeed system.
the idea is to smooth it without introducing much if any lag. there is a difference.

rgds,
bernie
Click to expand...

Sorry - whether you do it with software or a restrictor is immaterial. Both approaches are "averaging the flow," and both induce lag.

What you are pointing out is that you don't want to use as small of a restrictor as for a manifold pressure approach, or there will be an annoying amount of lag before real change is fully realized. But, a restrictor will do exactly the same thing without requiring any software or extensive testing.
 
the_other_dougreeves said:
This should be fixable in the software. There is probably some averaging period for the ASI, VS, ALT, etc. Whether or not it's a user-configurable item is a different matter.

If the digital display is jumping around all the time with just 1-2kt variations, then it's less usable than a round gauge.

TODR
Click to expand...

Same comment I made above - whether you do it with software or a physical restrictor is immaterial - both accomplish exactly the same thing.

I'd opt for displaying with perfect accuracy, and smoothing the changes with a very slight restrictor.
 
Garage Guy said:
You have all your AHRS data available as well. So why limit yourself to the GPS update rate when displaying the top down map and heading arc?

But this raises another question. The PFD falls back to GPS aiding if pitot data is lost. Does this mean the PFD display goes to GPS rate (like 5Hz) updates without pitot?

--Paul
Click to expand...

No - the MEMS sensors have a sampling rate well above 100 times per second, and the GPS data is only used to smooth out the inaccuracies over time in the absence of pitot/static inputs.
 
Don't forget about us D100 customers!

Yes, yes the new toy is all very cool but...
What about those of us who have invested and built our panels around the
D100 and EMS D10? Are we to be left out in the cold?
Please tell me you're not going to follow the Garmin example of declaring a
product "discontinued" and pull your support! Now that the 396 is considered
"old hat" Garmin has already pulled the online manual from its site!
I happen to enjoy my D100/EMSD10 and don't particularly desire to invest more $$ nor do I wish to alter my present panel. Are we to get software updates and enhancements in the future or are we told, "sorry, you need to purchase the new product?" If upgrades ARE planned for the present hardware please clue us in!

I enjoy my DYNON products and I have found the support staff to be pleasant and very helpful. Please don't forget about me!

Peter K
9A-94 hrs
 
avi8tor50 said:
Yes, yes the new toy is all very cool but...
Click to expand...

Ah...............but we can't call this a toy. Toys are to play with, with no lasting consequences. This device as well as similar ones will become the aviation "hind end" savers of the future. This box will be one of many that will go a long way in reducing all those flight into terrain accidents we still keep hearing about. No sir, this is "serious stuff".... :)

L.Adamson ---- I want one. Actually two.
 
When you get your GPS track take a reading from your magnetometer.
On subsequent map updates take the difference between the last GPS track reading and the current magnetometer reading (assuming it comes in at a faster rate than the GPS). Add that difference to the GPS track and use that to point the map.
This works fine even at a 1 Hz GPS update rate and gives a smooth map rotation without any wind direction worries. This also means you can live with very large magnetometer errors, even an uncalibrated compass as you are only looking at relative headings.
As preferable variant to the above, ignore the magnetometer and use the yaw angle calculated from the AHRS - that way this works even if you don't have a magnetometer. Even in this case the absolute yaw heading from the AHRS is unimportant - you are interested in relative numbers only and you could rotate the map at whatever rate your AHRS solution comes in.

Rainier

dynonsupport said:
Maps are ground track based. You want straight up to be where you are going, not where you are pointed. So if you point the map at the magnetometer, it makes it hard to fly to a point if there is any wind, since you now have to figure the wind correction angle. This is why we use GPS track, just like every other map out there.

We do hope to blend magnetic heading and GPS data in the future in order to get smoother updates, but this needs to be done carefully, and we haven't gotten there yet.

We think 5Hz is actually very good, and we can handle much more if we get the data source to do it. Most older maps (even a 430) can't update faster than 1Hz since that's as often as they calculate a track. Maybe someone with a 396 will chime in. That thing updates at about 0.2 Hz (every 5 seconds)!

As for GPS fail-over on the PFD, we continue our high update rate over there. We already blend the data between GPS updates, so there is no degradation in update rate.
Click to expand...
 
avi8tor50 said:
Yes, yes the new toy is all very cool but...
What about those of us who have invested and built our panels around the
D100 and EMS D10?
Click to expand...

We have no plans to stop selling any of our current products, much less discontinue support for them. They still fill a very large need in experimental and LSA markets.

Heck, we still support the D10, which we last sold in 2004 (although parts are hard to find and we often have to upgrade to a D10A)
 
Shockwave said:
Is the Skyview capable of handling aerobatics or inverted flight?
Click to expand...

Absolutely. All of our AHRS units are completely solid state, work fine at all angles, and are not damaged by any maneuvers. To be fair, this is true of all of the true attitude EFIS units (GRT, AFS, MGL) that I know of.

The main thing you run into doing aerobatics is roll rate limitations. We can handle up to 150 deg/sec and keep track of the airplane. Beyond that, we will have some error, but we clearly annunciate this. After the aircraft is stabilized, we can recover within a few seconds. All AHRS units have this limitation at some roll rate.
 
Sam Buchanan said:
Is he helping out or sabatoging???????

Just kidding, just kidding.......... :D

<feeling mischievous>
Click to expand...

Well, if this is sabotaging - then I better head back to cloak and dagger school because I sure flunked that one...:D

Anyway, I don't count Dynon as a competitor but as fellow EFIS designers. Our respective products are very different in concept and so they don't directly compete with each other. You may be surprised but I have in the past many times recommended a Dynon (or GRT) product to a prospective customer as it would suit him better for what he wants to do. In fact, the last one was just yesterday !

Is that wrong ?

Rainier
CEO MGL Avionics
 
Rainier,
your comment

"Our respective products are very different in concept and so they don't directly compete with each other. You may be surprised but I have in the past many times recommended a Dynon (or GRT) product to a prospective customer as it would suit him better for what he wants to do"

prompts the obvious question from someone (me) who is getting very close to choosing an EFIS/autopilot. I have read all that I can, determined my "mission", visited vendor booths at Oshkosh, looked at the screens, watched the products evolve, yet with all of that remain unable to say with any confidence how your product, or Dynon, (or GRT or TruTrak for that matter) differ in concept.
I would have thought that they did compete!
So, from someone who designs these things and knows, what market/user requirements is your product designed for? What criteria (other than price that we can all judge) do you suggest prospective purchasers looking at these things take into account? What is the difference in concept between yours and the others? I am sure the best system for a user may be any one of the vendor offerings depending on mission and priorities (IFR or VFR, sole system, main system or backup, autopilot function, cost, ...) so it is not a question of criticism of any of them.
In short, I have determined my "mission", but am at a loss to know how to apply that to what is out there.
Dynon, others have any comments?
Thanks,
Bill Brooks
Ottawa, Canada
RV-6A finishing kit
 
C-GRVT said:
Rainier,
your comment

"In short, I have determined my "mission", but am at a loss to know how to apply that to what is out there.
Dynon, others have any comments?
Thanks,
Click to expand...

Bill,

check out this thread:

http://www.vansairforce.com/community/showthread.php?t=50144&highlight=dynon

Ironflight (aka Paul Dye) has a nice write up in here about applying your mission objectives to selecting an EFIS. There are also a lot of opinions (mine included) about how the different systems are aimed at different markets.
 
Not today. We do not have a full moving map yet. We will be working on that right away after we start shipping next week.
 
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