One would think so but ...

I have beaten RV-4s with O-360s so there is no reason you can't beat them in your engine class. It does take dedication but I know you have that. That RV-3 and 4 cheek cowl just looks like a racer but I think there are some inefficiencies in all the blisters and intersections of surfaces that hurt their speed a little bit. That's my story anyway and I'm sticking to it (Chris and Cam have both beat me with their O-320s).

Bob Axsom
 
Rv-4 vs RV-6

I think the RV -6/7 is a cleaner aerodynamic shape. I think the only advantage the -4 has is its weight. Sure would have liked to made the race but I am just glad I have the plane back home from Courtland.

Looking forward to next season too.

Chris Murphy RACE34
 
Darrell - Race 007

Let's see... You're flying an O-320 7A, no nose wheel pant, no tape or other speed mods, you use a fish finder GPS to navigate the course, there were headwinds on most of the legs, you had trouble finding a turn, AND YOU CLOCKED 198 MPH! Are you sticking to your story that you didn't turn more than 2500 rpm because you have a new motor? You've got this racing thing down pat... poor-boy your machine to the other racers, freely offer an occasional misleading statement when asked about your strategy or speed mods and, after the race results are posted, act surprised (oh gosh while kicking an empty can) that you're first in your class. I'll be there soon... BTW, am I'm supposed to pass on the right?

It was a spectacular race weekend excepting only that some of the racers were absent because of weather. I really missed not seeing Bob A and his lovely wife. Kudos to Mike, Mark, Cheryl, and the tremendous support staff that make this event both SAFE and FUN.
 
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New motor??? Ernie is going to buy me a new motor (engine)? Awesome!!! :D

I really enjoyed visiting with everyone. :) And feel free to pass on the right. :eek:


Let's see... You're flying an O-320 7A, no nose wheel pant, no tape or other speed mods, you use a fish finder GPS to navigate the course, there were headwinds on most of the legs, you had trouble finding a turn, AND YOU CLOCKED 198 MPH! Are you sticking to your story that you didn't turn more than 2500 rpm because you have a new motor? You've got this racing thing down pat... poor-boy your machine to the other racers, freely offer an occasional misleading statement when asked about your strategy or speed mods and, after the race results are posted, act surprised (oh gosh while kicking an empty can) that you're first in your class. I'll be there soon... BTW, am I'm supposed to pass on the right?

It was a spectacular race weekend excepting only that some of the racers were absent because of weather. I really missed not seeing Bob A and his lovely wife. Kudos to Mike, Mark, Cheryl, and the tremendous support staff that make this event both SAFE and FUN.
 
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Gary Wilcox?

Hey! 214.39 mph in the many switchback turned 2009 Rocket 100 course! Mike Thompson's 202.94 mph is my normal neck and neck competition. Where did this masked man in the RV-7 come from? WOW! Things are going to be even tougher in the RV Blue class next year with this new competitor in the mix.

Glad to have you Gary.

Bob Axsom
 
Gary has a nice ship... came in from Canada. He did pass Mike I believe shortly after Turn 1. Gary has a nice cold ram air induction system that gained MP for the race.





Hey! 214.39 mph in the many switchback turned 2009 Rocket 100 course! Mike Thompson's 202.94 mph is my normal neck and neck competition. Where did this masked man in the RV-7 come from? WOW! Things are going to be even tougher in the RV Blue class next year with this new competitor in the mix.

Glad to have you Gary.

Bob Axsom
 
Back Home

I am finally home. It was a great trip, and if the weather wasnt foggy yesterday in taylor, Would have been home last night. Bob and Daryl, I hope to see you up in Canada August 28 at Tom's race. I am based from that airport and will definatly make it there on race day.
Bob, I would think you'll be giving me a good race with that new prop you will be swinging. Actually, i am going to make some changes to my lower cowl and exit air to see if I cant get some more speed, I think there is alot of oportunity to get some.
 
The latest from Mike Thompson - see the video link

Hi Folks,

I have updated the point totals for the year.

I also started on race memories - between my brother and me we shot over 300
images and it will take longer than I expected to root through them for keepers.

In the meanwhile, Ernie Butcher has a very nice collection on Picasa at
http://picasaweb.google.com/specialdelivery8/Rocket10009?authkey=Gv1sRgCNHJh5fZ-
J6zMw&feat=directlink#5407427012040498178

Also the Amateur Photographers Social Club was at the field - their images are
at
http://www.meetup.com/Amateur-Photographers-Social-Club/photos/?photoId=11930348
&photoAlbumId=769970#11930348

They have some very talented individuals!

But the Special Treat is on YouTube at
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=It5Bs3Q9UDo

That will knock your socks off!
Enjoy!

Even though I am drowning in pictures, don't hesitate to send me what you have -
and if anyone else got video, we'll take that too!

OK - no more links. Don't use the link at the bottom of this note!

- Mike
 
N-Numbers for Canadians

Gary and gang,

Do you have to have the 12 inch N numbers to cross the ADIZ.

Just checking to see if Aug is in sight.
Also the 406 ELT for Canadians.

Boomer
 
tail numbers

Not an issue, many planes here dont even have 12 inch numbers. Same deal with the elt.
The most important thing is to get your tail(#) up here for the race August 28.
 
No reason not too come!

Bruce
Come as you are!
You will need a passport for all on board and a transponder to get back home.
Easy as pie!!!
Wayne
F1 Rocket 425 hrs
RV 10 almost ready
 
Am I missing something

All right I will ask the question.
There sure seem to be lots of interest in the RV world about speed and efficiency.
Why is there such low participation of RV's in recreational racing?
I do not understand. Anybody have an explanation?
Wayne
F1 Rocket 425 hrs
RV 10 almost ready
 
Response and a question

Wayne I think the interest is starting to blossom in the RV world. With the fresh new voices of participants like Bob Mills, Darrell Reiley it is more apealing to the average RV pilot. I got side tracked for most of the season this year but I plan to participate in most races in 2010. It is a good question from your perspective because you have experienced the races and know how well they are handled, the sportsmanship of the participants and the thrill of competition. The thousands of RV'ers represented by 2 to 8 racers in a given event seems deficient but if the quality of events is sustained as it has been over these past three years the racers will come in greater numbers. I believe we are starting to see that already.

Now the question. I saw you new flat tips on your Rocket but I couldn't tell how you dealt with the end of the ailerons. Do the tips extend full chord or to they stop at the read spar? I'm thinking of 1/2" tips which will cut 5" more inches off of the wingspan on my RV-6A and extend parallel with the end of the ailerons. I am also thinking of beveling them so the bottom span extension is zero inches and the top has the full 1/2" spanwise extension.

Bob Axsom
 
Participation increasing

All right I will ask the question.
There sure seem to be lots of interest in the RV world about speed and efficiency.
Why is there such low participation of RV's in recreational racing?
I do not understand. Anybody have an explanation?
Wayne
F1 Rocket 425 hrs
RV 10 almost ready

Bob Axsom compiled a spreadsheet of race results over the past three years. To this I added the most recent race, and counted the numbers of race entries per year (the numbers could be slightly off but not much):

2007: 126 total, 31 RVs, 13 Rockets
2008: 180 total, 41 RVs, 10 Rockets
2009: 186 total, 43 RVs, 16 Rockets

There was a sizable increase in entries from 2007 to 2008, and a modest increase from 2008 to 2009. This seems pretty good considering the circumstances, and supports Bob's feeling that interest is blossoming.

I'd say the RV category is the by far the most competitive, since the planes are closely matched (mostly). The exception to this is RVs that have had their engines modified to make more power (by as much as 40 hp), but there actually aren't many of these showing up. Most entries have unmodified or only slightly modified engines. Airframe details and pilot technique are therefore important. In the RV Blue category its not unusual for 180 hp airplanes to beat 200 hp ones.

The races can be very close; last March in Taylor I had visual contact on the RV in front of me for the whole race, and ended up closing on him by 8 seconds (we took off about 21 seconds apart and finished 13 seconds apart). The difference seemed to be all in how we flew the turns. I didn't win the race, but it was the most fun I've had all year.

Something else to consider, the top two points finishers this year were flying relatively "slow" factory planes (SR20, AA5B). However, both entered a lot of races. Participation counts, in addition to speed. Even if you don't have the fastest plane you can still win a trophy!
 
Sport FX

Bob. Which class will it be in?

Thanks,

SPORT FX

I went to www.sportairrace.org, clicked on "The Mission", then scrolled to the bottom of the linked page then under "The Race Classes" I clicked on "Experimental Classes" And found:

SPORT FX

Any Experimental Category aircraft with 550 cubic inch displacement normally aspirated with Fixed Landing Gear for RV-10s, F-1 Rocket, Harmon Rocket II etc.

I didn't know that RV-10s had been specifically identified but there it is. Pierre, I've got to tell you that is a very tough class. In the AirVenture cup for example they have a guy that flies a fixed gear Venture that races it in the Sport Class at Reno and approaches 300 mph race speeds. More and more Rockets appear to be coming out to race in this class and their race speeds are somewhere between 240 and 260 mph. Of course it is not all about winning - just being in the arena of competition is important to most entrants (well me anyway). If there is are SARL sanctioned races in SC and Alabama again next year I plan to try to get there - thunderstorms here prevented the flight to SC last year.

Bob Axsom
 
Racing wing tips

Bob
I considered making the tips in two pieces. One piece for the wing and the second piece for the aileron but I decided that since a full length wing tip could be easily carried in my luggage area I would make it all in one piece. My concern with this choice was making the aft part which extends past the rear spar strong enough so there would be no possible way it could/would flex and jam the aileron. I made the tip as small as possible to shred the most wing area. It works out to a reduction of just over 10 square feet or aprox 10% of my wing area with the original tips. I made the tips strictly as a low altitude racing tip. It would be carried to the race and installed before the race and removed after for the trip home. I felt I did not need the wing area in low altitude racing due to the reduced aircraft weight that we race at. I had an opportunity to test the tips before the Rocket 100 and could not feel any difference in handling. The stall speed has increase 4-5 knts which results in a 4-5 knt increase in landing approach speed. The stall characteristics did not change. I had a chance to do some speed testing with Tom Martin?s F1 as the base line and found a 2 to 3 knt speed increase at 4000 feet. The Rocket 100 race seems to verify that the tips are indeed faster at low altitudes. I would not use them for high altitude races such as the Pagosa Springs 100 or the 2010 Air Venture Cup out of Mitchell SD. They were quite easy to make with about 40 hrs in all. I am sure I could make them quicker the second time round.
I know have two sets of tips:
1. Low Altitude Racing tips
2. High Altitude High Lift Night tips
It was a fun project which added another piece to the puzzle. With these tips I recorded a new personal best speed in the Rocket 100. You would have like the course lay out.
You and your wife have been greatly missed at the races this year. I look forward to both of your participation next year.
Wayne
F1 Rocket 425 hrs
RV 10 almost ready
 
Wayne and Bob,

I took a picture of the flat racing tips, and Wayne, hope you don't mind me posting some closeups, to help answer Bob's questions and then ask a couple of my own, as I would like to make a set as well. Here are the pics, cropped to show the full length, and then just the aft portion, by the aileron:

waynestip.jpg


waynestip2.jpg


I wish I'd have taken more, including pics of the inside before they were installed. I'd describe them as a fairly narrow endcap glassed onto a flange (poor word) that is match drilled to fit the nutplates in the wing (like the regular wingtip is) and then is fitted over the wing, and screwed into place. Seemed like they added almost nothing to the span (Maybe a quater inch Wayne?).

Wayne, I didn't notice the inside of the section that runs next to the aileron...was that just flat layered glass, thick enough to stay put and not interfere with the aileron (as you described above)? Or did you embed any stiffener into that section?

The second pic is a little closer of the aft section, and you can see the neat little fairing that Wayne added to next to the outside of the aileron hinge. Nice little touch.

OK, here's a couple questions:

1. Bob, why the bevel? Sounds like if viewed from the front, the upper portion of the tip would be wider than the lower, and the outer surface would be beveled about 45 degrees toward the ground. Is that what you are thinking? Just wondering what you are trying to acheive aerodynamically...not questioning you at all, just scratching my aero 101 brain to think of what that would do...very interested!

2. A VAF buddy and I were talking about the tips the other day, and he came up with a thought to make the tips in a way that would end up making little winglets out of them. His idea was to make the bottom follow the contour of the wing, just as Wayne's do, but to have the upper edge (outboard of the flange/nutplates, of course) go straight back, parallel to the chord line. That would make a sort of triangular shaped section that was perpendicular to the ground, that was the thickness of the endcap (maybe 1/4" to 3/8" thick...maybe even 1/2"). His point was that slowing the spanwise flow near the tip might delay separation near the tip, perhaps impede vortex development, and decrease induced drag a bit. My first reaction was skeptical, but the thoughts might have merit, if the vertical extension could be made strong enough without adding too much weight. It would definitely need to be strong enough not to fail and get tangled up in the aileron...my biggest source of skepticism. Perhaps if the endcap was built as a solid piece, and the shape of the extension was just made in final trimming.

Not sure if I'm 'splainin' that very well Lucy ;), so here's a (poor) little drawing to illustrate the basic idea. The blue is the wing and the tip endcap would be the blue and the white triangle all made as one piece:

winglet.jpg


Not trying to start a winglet debate, as these would not be full blown winglets, but just be very small extensions, tapering from nothing near mid-chord to perhaps 3" at the trailing edge. Not sure whether they should be pure vertical, or slightly canted out, as real winglets often are (hmmm, could that be the source of your bevel idea Bob?)

Anywho..whattya guys think? Is stopping or slowing spanwise flow worth the effort at glassing up tips such as this? Think a small extension would be effective at doing this, or would just reducing the wing area with basic flat tips provide the most bang for the buck, speed-wise? Comments from anyone welcome!

Cheers,
Bob
 
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Bob. Which class will it be in?

Thanks,

Pierre,

As Bob said, you'd be out there with me, chasing Rockets. I'd be happy to share the underdog/spoiler spot with you! But there are Bonanzas and Cirruses (sp?) out there for you to chase as well, and if you take the lead in coming out to race, then perhaps there will be some more RV-10s that come out to show there stuff.

At that point, you'd have fun racing among the 10's, and in any case, you would have a lot of fun showing Bonanzas and Cirruses just what an RV-10 can do in a little 4-6 seat comparison!! :) Maybe wave as you go by! ;)

Best part is the fun and camradrie...you would have a blast!!

Cheers,
Bob
 
The Wing Tips ...

I now have 6 wingtips yielding 3 configurations of my RV-6A.

First I had 2 stock jobs that have all the lights and attach to the outboard edge of 9" wide tip tanks for cruise configuration. The wing span is 24.5 feet. That is the way I built the plane.

After a couple of years of racing it in races that required 300+ mile legs at wide open throttle and modifying for speed Mike started the Sport Air Racing League that had a lot of races of a little more than 100 mile length. I didn't need the extra range of the tip tanks, lights etc. I designed 3" wide tips that attach to the end of the wing but my tips contain the platenuts and slip under the skin. They do not contain a "fist" at the front like your typical WWII square tipped wing or typical Cessna, Piper, Beech GA aircraft. They come out following the same contour as the lower surface of the wing at the leading edge and the entire plan view of the tip is an exact copy of the lower surface of the airfoil. Viewed from the front they curve from a maximum span point to the skin. I first drew a line on the molds set back 2 inches from the upper and lower surfaces and used these lines as my transition point for beginning the curve to the wing skin flange which is the 3/4" wide horizontal flat surface that mates with the underside of the upper and lower wing skin. Then I blended past the setback lines to eliminate the flat area at the tip between them. I laid up the tips with three plies of e-glass and EZ-Poxy with 24 hour hardener. I cut out the rear section to clear the end of the aileron and bent a triangular shaped stiffener out of 0.16" 2024-T3 aluminum with flanges to extend into the rear end of the tips to close the tip opening in this area with a flat surface parallel and close to the end of the aileron. These stiffener/closure webs are pop riveted to facilitate this configuration. These tips reduced the total wing span to 21.5 feet and increased the speed 3 kts. The first time I raced with them was at the Memphis 100 in 2007 and that is the first time I beat Mike Thompson in his RV-6. Note that this involves the reduction in wingspan of 3 feet and the weight of the airplane by over 150 pounds when the tanks are on and full with the stock tips and lights. The old rule of thumb on weight to speed is 100 pounds of added weight equals 1 knot of speed loss. Blindly following that rule it appears that I gained half of the three knots with weight loss and half with parasitic drag reduction. All was good.

Then came the AirVenture Cup Race in 2008. I calculated the minimum ground speed that I would have to maintain from Mitchell, South Dakota to Dodge County Airport in Wisconsin. The finish line was located there and I could land and refuel immediately after crossing the finish line. I made up some wind/altitude charts in Excel and determined that under normal conditions it was doable at a modest ground speed. So, I flew it that way and it worked great. I averaged over 223 kts and by the luck of weather decisions, beat Alan Carroll for the one and only time in my racing history and won the 3rd place trophy. ... Short pause for some private time while I relive that thrill in my heart and mind.

In 2009 the Airventure Cup was westbound out of Dayton, Ohio again and I cannot safely make it with the stock RV-6A wing tanks. There were to be no penalty free refueling stops as race management had experimented with in 2007. I just couldn't live with the slow stock tips so I decided to get the wooden molds back down out of the attic and make a set to interface with outboard end of the tip tanks. These would be the same as the short range racing tips except no rear stiffener and a different mounting hole pattern. These were completed, mounted, tested and seem OK but they are not nearly as fast as the short race configuration. The total wingspan is 23 feet which is the same as the stock RV-6A wingspan. I have done no direct "no other difference" testing between the stock tip and the racing tip on the tip tanks but I sense that the difference is not great. Life events prevented me from flying in the 2009 AirVenture Cup Race but I was annoyed that a penalty free fuel stop was allowed after I had gone through the time and expense of creating a racing configuration for a no penalty free fuel stop race.

Tom Martin has championed the flat tip for some time but I just wasn't buying it. There was just no way that a flat tipped air disturbing configuration could be faster than my blended smooth flowing 3" span tip. Well he and now Wayne have me thinking. I could reduce the span by at least 5 inches and it would be simple to do without making any change to the basic airplane. First I would make up a short range racing set (wingtips number 7 and 8) and see how that works out before making a long range race set (wing tips number 9 and 10). The angle from the wing skin at the bottom to 1" from the end of the wing skin on top provides two things, 1) it provides structure in the tip which can extend to the rear of the aileron with sufficient stiffness to prevent trouble and 2) it would require only a fraction of the frontal cross sectional area of a completely vertical flat plate doing that same job. At the low angles of attack that we experience in high speed level flight I don't think there will be any unusual effects on operations.

As for your friend's winglet idea - I don't know of any way to know how it will work given our resources other than build it and test it. I think alignment will be very critical to assure that no drag is added. OMG I can see wing tips number 11, 12, 13 and 14 in my future.

Bob Axsom
 
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Thanks Bob! The story of your wingtip evolution and revolution is really interesting. With respect to flat tip design and mini-winglets, I concur with you...likely the only way to see if little winglets will help at all will be to make two flat wingtips (one with, one without), and do some swap-testing.

Hmmm, lemme see, fiberglass/composite things I want to play with this winter:

- Inlet area smoothing and size reduction (ala Tom Martin's really nice inlet fairings).
- Exit area reduction (more inspiration from Tom...he has a neat little moveable exit ramp that closes right up around his exhaust pipes. I'll look for a simpler solution just to keep the cutting to a minimum, but I run very cool, so believe I have room to work here).
- Aileron hinge fairings (maybe, gotta research that one...they look nice on the EVO wing, but I've heard the warnings about aileron gap fairings, and won't do it. Not sure if it applies to the hinges though).
- Fuel drain fairings, and other little "fair what sticks out" projects.
- Redo the intersection fairings to make things more flush
- And now wingtips!

Man, I need a crash course in composites! :D

Thanks again for the description Bob! Your drag reduction work has been really interesting to follow! Can't wait to see you out there with the new prop too!

Cheers,
Bob
 
Not Recommended!

Bob, regarding your winglet idea (plate shaped as you drew) I can offer some first-hand experience with that. My tips go all the way to the trailing edge of the aileron. I ran tip plates in the Taylor 125 race this year with one test flight - not at race speeds. My tips ran above and below the airfoil by 2 inches.

What I found was very, very stiff ailerons when I rolled into the first turn. Much stiffer than on my are-these-things-going-to-stay-attached test flight.

My plates tapered down from the 2 inches above and below to even with the aileron starting four inches forward of the trailing edge. Since the theory of the plates are to "capture" spanwise-flowing air at the tip, I believe they were working as designed - preventing air from spilling off the wingtip and causing it to flow aft across the aileron. All in all it seemed that additional air was offering additional resistance to aileron movement.

The next set of plates that I make will taper to flush with the wing at the aileron leading edge, maybe a little ahead of that. I don't recommend plates in the shape you show simply because that would further load up your ailerons (in addition to Bob's observation that they would be a trimming nightmare unless made out of very rigid (read heavy) material).

My next plates will also only extend 1 inch above and below the airfoil since they are operating in a level AOA regime. The huge fences we see on some aircraft are there to affect spanwise flow at high AOA. Not needed for our application.

One extra advantage with the small flat-plate tips - man does that airplane roll!
Yehaaw!
 
Oops.

One extra advantage with the small flat-plate tips - man does that airplane roll!

Guess I should have said it rolls much faster with the short tips - after having taken off the plates.

I built in nutplates to the flat tips so I could experiment with different shaped plates.
 
Wing tips

Gents
Intuitively, I am not a believer in the square tip theory. I see no examples of it in nature as a speed enhancer but maybe because it only begins to make a difference at high speeds. I used square tips to shed the greatest amount of wing area. I used a ? foam piece for the section that is unsupported and aft of the rear spar. It is covered with 4 layers of cloth and reinforced at the rear spar. Probably overdone but I did not want any flexing to jam the ailerons. Winglets and fences may result in speed increases but they are way down the list for me. I have too many other experiments in other areas yet to be done. All neat stuff. I would love to spend the winter on these new speed/efficiency mods but alas the family wants the RV 10 completed for use next year.
Wayne
 
Mike,

Good feedback! If I understand you, you have platenuts in the current wingtip, shown here:

mikestips.jpg


I think I see tape over 4 holes, above and below the first W and above and below the E. So you have designed screw-on end caps to test various profiles, eh!?! Very cool!

Sounds like you did psuedo mini-winlets (if you will) above and below that extended slightly above the wing top and bottom skin, even back at the aileron. And now you want to test the same, but with the up and down extensions tapering to zero before you get to the aileron, sorta like this:

wingchord.jpg


Shape might not be accurate, but the idea is to have little tapering fences above and below, right?

That's actually close to what I was thinking, I was just going to do it only on top, and was not going to taper it...hmmm, some interesting thoughts. Stopping at the aileron leading edge is an interesting idea as well.

I concur with you, stall fences at various spans of the wing are normally for slow speed characteristics (or so I believe)...what we're looking for is reduction of vortices and induced drag, or at least I think that's what we're after! :rolleyes:

I'll bet this has been studied in depth, but perhaps not for aircraft in our speed ranges (though there are planes with winglets in our class). Would be interesting to see what the studies show.

In the meantime, hog out a few tips and test those babies out! I'll be more than happy to steal and use your secret results! ;)

Actually, wish I was closer, to help and do some testing with ya! Might have to do some similar platenuts and do some testing of overlays, then glass in the best result (or just take them all off and run flat when we show no benefit to little extensions!! :))

Cheers,
Bob


Bob, regarding your winglet idea (plate shaped as you drew) I can offer some first-hand experience with that. My tips go all the way to the trailing edge of the aileron. I ran tip plates in the Taylor 125 race this year with one test flight - not at race speeds. My tips ran above and below the airfoil by 2 inches.

What I found was very, very stiff ailerons when I rolled into the first turn. Much stiffer than on my are-these-things-going-to-stay-attached test flight.

My plates tapered down from the 2 inches above and below to even with the aileron starting four inches forward of the trailing edge. Since the theory of the plates are to "capture" spanwise-flowing air at the tip, I believe they were working as designed - preventing air from spilling off the wingtip and causing it to flow aft across the aileron. All in all it seemed that additional air was offering additional resistance to aileron movement.

The next set of plates that I make will taper to flush with the wing at the aileron leading edge, maybe a little ahead of that. I don't recommend plates in the shape you show simply because that would further load up your ailerons (in addition to Bob's observation that they would be a trimming nightmare unless made out of very rigid (read heavy) material).

My next plates will also only extend 1 inch above and below the airfoil since they are operating in a level AOA regime. The huge fences we see on some aircraft are there to affect spanwise flow at high AOA. Not needed for our application.

One extra advantage with the small flat-plate tips - man does that airplane roll!
Yehaaw!