[mhcflyer]

Garmin Announcements

Looks like Garmin has announced more Glass. Too Rich for my blood...

http://tinyurl.com/ft3x6

http://tinyurl.com/e6fhy

--
Michael

 

[aadamson]

Interesting

Looks like my prediction came true... Hmm...wish my Stock picks would do the same

But, it also looks like Garmin narrowed the competion in one vain and broaded it in the other.

The 900X (and I fly behind a G1000 today), is only targetted for the "larger airplanes" and is at a pretty heftly price price and weight penalty as expected. I wonder if they will "limit" it's application to the airplanes listed? They just might I guess, or perhaps the size/weight issue will do that for them.

The 600 looks to be directly targetted at the CFS system (based purely on price tho). At 29K I suspect I'm sure it will have a tested software base, like the Chelton (both have certfied and tested to certified standards - software). One note about the G600, I find no reference to the experimental market, only references to the STC certified market. Hope that was just an oversight on the press release staffs part.

But the feature matrix war, still goes to Chelton for the price range. e.g. Simple matrix based upon my knowledge of the G1000 (over 100hrs behind it, in VFR and IFR) and my limited, but pretty thorough knowledge of the CFS system.

- HITS - CFS
- 3d synthetic vision - CFS
- full approach capability, included fully AP coupled climbs, descents, PT's, Holds, and synthetic approaches to ILS mins - CFS, G600 if like the G1000, can show the PT, and Hold, but not fly it on the AP, fully.
- Safety features like "glide range ring, Cautionary warning system, etc" - CFS
- Data Integration, display, and exchange with ADC/Fuel/Engine management systems like EI, JPI, AFS, GRT EIS - CFS
- SafeTaxi (airport information ) - G600

The other noteworthy features that are similar between the two
- neither use the Xbow AHRS
- 640x480 resolution (VGA) - CFS in landscape mode, G600 in Portrait mode
Weather - CFS (Sirius at the moment), G600 (XM)
- TCAS, TIS, etc - CFS (with a note that it's also displayed in 3d relative to your aircraft), G600 (only on the MFD)
- Terrain systems - CFS is TAWS capable, G600 can be as an option
- On screen charts - CFS, G600

So for those going to OSH, looks like you'll need to help educate the rest of us that may not be going.

 

[jferraro17]

Matched hole Fuse, but no fastback...


I'll take the improvement to the kit regardless. According to Doug's front page, sounds like they brought the plans/manual up to RV-10 standards!


Joe

 

[the_other_dougreeves]

The 600 looks to be directly targetted at the CFS system (based purely on price tho). At 29K I suspect I'm sure it will have a tested software base, like the Chelton (both have certfied and tested to certified standards - software). One note about the G600, I find no reference to the experimental market, only references to the STC certified market. Hope that was just an oversight on the press release staffs part.

I just did a double take on this. Although this is not significant for the RV community, the fact that this is a STCed package for $30k gives it a large price advantage over Chelton. The STCed Chelton systems are, if I remember correctly, over $60k. This makes EFIS retrofit "affordable" for spam cans, particularly when compared to what similar technologies will cost (e.g., Sandel EHSI, Avidyne and King moving maps).

 

[aadamson]

Solved I'll bet

I just did a double take on this. Although this is not significant for the RV community, the fact that this is a STCed package for $30k gives it a large price advantage over Chelton. The STCed Chelton systems are, if I remember correctly, over $60k. This makes EFIS retrofit "affordable" for spam cans, particularly when compared to what similar technologies will cost (e.g., Sandel EHSI, Avidyne and King moving maps).

Bet, you just provided the answer. The 29k, is probably the experimental price, I'll bet the STC price is more.... But someone needs to go find out.

 

[the_other_dougreeves]

STC Goodness

Bet, you just provided the answer. The 29k, is probably the experimental price, I'll bet the STC price is more.... But someone needs to go find out.

I think $30k is the price for the STCed package. From Garmin's press release:

Garmin anticipates that the G600 will receive the FAA?s Approved Model List Supplemental Type Certification (AML STC), which will simplify certification for approximately 400 different aircraft models. The G600 includes the GDU 620 display/control unit, GRS 77 AHRS, GDC 74A digital air data computer, GMU 44 tri-axial magnetometer, and GTP 59 temp probe. The G600 will be available in mid-2007 at a suggested retail price of $29,772.

Now, combine this with either a GNS480 or 430, SL30 and your choice of XPDR and audio panel, and you've got a nice package for $50k. I think this would be attractive if you flew a lot of IFR in your older Cessna / Piper / Beech / Mooney and wanted to refurb it.

I like that Garmin has kept the G600 simple - no integrated avionics, but it appears capable of displaying NAV data, presumably via ARINC429. This is in line with the Avidyne approach, which I like - keep the PFD simple - fly the airplane! It also allows you to upgrade NAV units to whatever you want, whenever you want to.

 

[aadamson]

I think $30k is the price for the STCed package.

Doug,

I hear what you are saying and maybe there is more to the story. It just seems odd. Traditionally (maybe things are a changing), there was one price when you bought stuff that didn't need the STC and was going into an experimental or non-certified airplane, and then there was a different price if you did. This difference usually helped cover the costs of development and approval of the STC.

Maybe there is something new with the AML STC, but either the 29K is for it and the experimental guys get "certified, TSO'd, STC'd" goods for the same price, or there is a delta for the "certification, etc".

This will either be a good deal for experimentals, or will be a hidden charge for the type certified guys....Garmin *never* leaves dollars on the table, so there must be more to the story...

 

[w1curtis]

I hear what you are saying and maybe there is more to the story. It just seems odd. Traditionally (maybe things are a changing), there was one price when you bought stuff that didn't need the STC and was going into an experimental or non-certified airplane, and then there was a different price if you did. This difference usually helped cover the costs of development and approval of the STC.

Garmin never operated this way. After all, there is no experimental version of the GNS-430/480/530, and you see those in experimentals. The G-900X is probably only done this way as they will never do an aftermarket G-1000; way to complex to retrofit. I'm confident that the $30K price is also the STC'd price. Just as the GNS line, you can choose to put it in an experimental or a certified plane. Of course, they don't need to have your particular experimental aircraft on the STC'd paperwork--that is probably the only difference. $30K for certified hardware is great. I actually like the the idea of the G600 in my -10 more than the G900X.

 

[mhcflyer]

Dynon Avionics Oshkosh Announcements

Just found this on the Dynon site.....

Dynon's Oshkosh 2006 Announcements:

Hardware:

? Super-Bright Screen Option - 100% Brighter!

Dynon is proud to announce a display option for our D100 series of products that is twice as bright as our current 7" screens. This $200 option increases brightness from 400 to 800 nits, while retaining the high resolution (854 x 480 pixels) that you are used to on the D100 series displays. We expect this option to be shipping by September.

Current owners of D100 products aren't left out from this deal. You can upgrade your unit for exactly the same price - $200. We'll be accepting upgrade orders starting on October 1st, so please don't call before then. The only caveat here is that your current display will need to be in like new condition. If you have any scratches or other damage, the upgrade price will be $300.

? All Products Shipping with Short Lead Times

Most of our products are on the shelf and ready to ship. Only the D100 has any real backorder and should still be less than two weeks. As always, please let us know when ordering if you are in a real time crunch so we can make sure to update you with our best estimate of ship date as of that moment.

Firmware Updates (FREE, downloadable around September 1st):

? HSI with Glide Slope from SL30 Radio

Our next firmware release will include an HSI overlay on the DG screen that we just released. If you have an SL30 radio, you can hook the serial output of that to your Dynon EFIS product and display the CDI, Glide Slope, VOR frequency and VOR id as an EHSI display.

? HSI with CDI from GPS

Another way to get an HSI display is by hooking up a GPS to your EFIS. This will allow the EFIS to display a CDI needle on the DG display for a virtual HSI. The screen will also show various info from the GPS such as ground track, and distance to waypoint.

? Winds Aloft with Cross Wind Info

With a GPS connection, the HSI screen will also show you real-time winds, including a relative wind arrow and an absolute display of wind direction and velocity. We also display the crosswind component of the wind vector so you can glance at the EFIS on final and see if you're comfortable with the crosswind.

? Fuel at Waypoint, MPG, Range Data

On the EMS side of things, the GPS connection also gives us some exciting data. The EMS fuel computer page will now show you fuel economy (MPG in english units), how much fuel you will have onboard when you reach your waypoint, and will constantly tell you what the ground range of your aircraft is in the current configuration. These tools should make efficient cross country flying much easier. If you need to get as far as possible, just pull back the power and lean out until the economy number peaks out.

? Aircraft Trim & Flap Indication

You can now configure info items on the EMS to display trim and/or flap indicators by hooking up to the GP inputs.

? Shock Cooling & Span Alarms

Alarms on the EMS can be configured to warn you if your CHT's are cooling too fast or your CHT's or EGT's have too much span between cylinders.

Already released firmware:

We are of course also talking about the firmware that we started shipping a few weeks ago that adds a Directional Gyro display to the EFIS and allows the EMS to be displayed on the EFIS. Dynon is committed to supporting our current customers with free firmware updates, and as you can see, we're putting a lot of calories into our firmware to make your purchase even more valuable.

 

[aadamson]

That's because

Garmin never operated this way. After all, there is no experimental version of the GNS-430/480/530, and you see those in experimentals. The G-900X is probably only done this way as they will never do an aftermarket G-1000; way to complex to retrofit. I'm confident that the $30K price is also the STC'd price. Just as the GNS line, you can choose to put it in an experimental or a certified plane. Of course, they don't need to have your particular experimental aircraft on the STC'd paperwork--that is probably the only difference. $30K for certified hardware is great. I actually like the the idea of the G600 in my -10 more than the G900X.

Actually Garmin never acted this way, because they didn't have to. They have never made a "flight instrument" before which required an STC. Those aren't like a TSO. They require proof, money, and submission, checks and approvals from the FAA. Now, if they are going to be done as "non-primary" then maybe you are correct, however, they say, that it is a "retro-fit" offer, so I suggest they are going to be installed as a "primary flight instrument". Those require STC's and usually lots of money to get approved. Hence my comments about the 2 prices.

 

[osxuser]

$29K PLUS INSTALLATION! That puts a finished price tag around $45K most likely, after the new panel is cut, and all the other work is done.

 

[w1curtis]

Actually Garmin never acted this way, because they didn't have to. They have never made a "flight instrument" before which required an STC. Those aren't like a TSO. They require proof, money, and submission, checks and approvals from the FAA. Now, if they are going to be done as "non-primary" then maybe you are correct, however, they say, that it is a "retro-fit" offer, so I suggest they are going to be installed as a "primary flight instrument". Those require STC's and usually lots of money to get approved. Hence my comments about the 2 prices.

OK, speak (type) slowly so I can understand here, I don't follow this 2 price thing. If Garmin (or Sandel) certifies a product, secures the STC for one or more certified aircraft, and prices it at $29K list--what is this "other" price? As an experimental builder, I need not care (nor would it ever be) if my RV-10 is on that STC list.

My Cardinal 177 is on the STC list for the Sandel HSI, the Vans RV-7 however is not-does this mean I would pay more to install a Sandel HSI in an RV-7? What am I missing here?

 

[aadamson]

Try this

William,

Your logic works for "secondary" instruments. However, when it comes to primary replacement instruments. Most vendors sell you the widget, then they sell you the STC. 2 prices. It happens all the time in the certified world. It's like TSO's in a way. You can buy TSO'd instruments for one price and non-TSO'd for another, all from the same vendor.

I have no idea howGarmin is going to price this thing, time will tell. This is all speculation at the moment and none of it will be available until mid 2007 anyway.

We can all hope that it doesn't turn out to be like the WAAS upgrades.... Weren't they suppose to be available in 2004

 

[osxuser]

The G600 isn't designed for the experiemental market specifically, so most likely they aren't gonna give and discounts for no STC sales, the G900X or whatever it is was designed for us (ish...) and it won't be available for retrofit. Different installations for different markets. Compared to the Chelton, for use the G600 doesn't looke THAT appealing, unless you really like Garmin's interfaces, which I'm not too hung up on myself.

Different is the retrofit market, who's current option is the Chelton system, which usually ends up costing north of $100K after all the work is complete.

IF the G600 does end up being about $40-45K installed, combine that with a GNS480, GMX200, SL30, and perhaps a JPI930 to have a completely glass retrofit for less than $100K, that would be truely impressive, and very appealing for people with airplanes that are worth more money that my dad's cardinal...

 

[w1curtis]

William,

Your logic works for "secondary" instruments. However, when it comes to primary replacement instruments. Most vendors sell you the widget, then they sell you the STC. 2 prices. It happens all the time in the certified world. It's like TSO's in a way. You can buy TSO'd instruments for one price and non-TSO'd for another, all from the same vendor.

OK, I missed it again. STC stands for Supplemental Type Certificate. Why would I need a Supplemental Type Certificate for a non certificated (experimental) aircraft? Garmin has stated that the STC'd price (widget and STC) would be $29K. As and experimental builder, you buy the widget (which also comes with the STC) toss the STC since it does not apply and go on your merry way. You get the security of certified hardware, without the hassel of STC paperwork. I would be willing to bet that by mid next year, Stark will offer the G600 to anyone with cold hard cash, just as they do today with the GNS-430/380/530.

I have no idea howGarmin is going to price this thing, time will tell. This is all speculation at the moment and none of it will be available until mid 2007 anyway.

Seems like they have priced it and it's pretty clear to me. I also don't see any need for speculation. They were pretty clear that they "will be seeking STCs for over 400 (certified) aircraft and the certificated price (widget & STC) will be $29K."

We can all hope that it doesn't turn out to be like the WAAS upgrades.... Weren't they suppose to be available in 2004

Not sure what the relevance is here but it was pretty clear that Garmin chose to expend their efforts elsewhere and put the WAAS upgrade of the 430/530 on a low priority track. With these recent announcements, now we know why.