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N941WR

N941WR

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There have been a lot of threads on how people land their RV; be it a -3, -4, or whatever.

I have a friend who was really into aerobatics and has owned a number of various acro birds; Pitts, Ultimate, G-202, and now flies an F1 Rocket. He is a great pilot and I’ve seen him do things that airplanes shouldn’t do.

He had been bugging me to try out the -9 and we were never at the same place at the same time with the plane, until today.

We climbed out, which he thought was anemic. No surprise there. Two big guys with a FP prop RV compared to his monster F1 would seem slow.

He was very impressed at how nice the plane flew and particularly how the rudder felt.

Then we did a series of stalls, flaps up and flaps down, straight ahead and accelerated. Again, he was really impressed at how well the -9 flew and how quickly it recovered.

Then it was time to land. It took him four approaches to get the -9 down on the 5500’ runway we were using. On one go around he tried an engine out return to the airport from 700 feet and had to go around. Then he tried his Rocket approach and w/o the prop helping slow him down we had to go around again. We were both laughing at his inability to get the thing down and slow.

He was stunned at how well the plane just held altitude and how nice it flew.

His fourth and final approach was a winner and he greased it on, as I was expecting from a man of his talents.

When he got out his parting comment was that for a plane that flies as slow as the -9 and yet doesn’t give up anything on the top end was truly amazing.
 
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N941WR said:
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When he got out his parting comment was that for a plane that flies as slow as the -9 and yet doesn?t give up anything on the top end was truly amazing.
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We give up 10 on the top... When I miss it i remind myself that we don't need much runway and if we have to put it down off field, we're much better off. ... the energy equals velocity squared thing....
 
MauiLvrs said:
We give up 10 on the top... When I miss it i remind myself that we don't need much runway and if we have to put it down off field, we're much better off. ... the energy equals velocity squared thing....
Click to expand...

"Give up 10" is all relative though - I'm currenly flying a 172 while building my 9A. I won't be giving up 10, I'll be gaining 40.
 
Acrobatics

So your friend is into acrobatics, was he standing on his head trying to land it.:D

Now if he got into aerobatics he would know that if you pull off the power and raise the nose the thing will slow down!:eek:

My nine is constant speed, amazing how much they slow you down when you go fine pitch!
 
I have almost 1000 landings in my -9...and some of them were pretty good. :D At least I don't scare myself, or passengers, anymore. The plane allows a lot of time in the flare to really finesse your landing and to fine tune your technique.
 
WAM120RV said:
So your friend is into acrobatics, was he standing on his head trying to land it.:D

Now if he got into aerobatics he would know that if you pull off the power and raise the nose the thing will slow down!:eek:

My nine is constant speed, amazing how much they slow you down when you go fine pitch!
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Acrobatics - Arobatics one uses wings and engines, the other ropes, people, and running. Good catch!

We discussed stalling it above the threshold and riding it down with the rudder and adding a little power before the smash down. I’ve only done this once and it was in a rental 152 with an instructor on board and it is something I didn’t want to try in MY plane.

However, that kind of approach makes for an interesting landing. Timing is EVERYTHING and you must be ready to dump the nose when very close to the ground. That and the ground rush is very odd. It must be like what a skydiver feels just before touchdown.
 
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I think he just meant to trim it for speed, figure out what glide ratio it likes to do, and go from there. Pretty straightforward to land a plane using that technique.
 
Pussycat

The RV9 is a pussycat to fly, one of those nice ones that sits on your lap, purrs and keeps its claws in most of the time. But you have to remember it still has them and can bite!!

Ive been practising steep turns, glide approaches, and short take off and landings in mine recently. I can land her within 250 feet easily.

If you go to http://www.wellesbourneairfield.com

You can get her down on 18 and turn off at the first intersection easily. Doing the same on 36 is more difficult because your coming in over a hill with trees. This field was very active in WW2 if you look at the history section you will see a lot of crews were lost because of those trees and hill.
 
Pussycat

The RV9 is a pussycat to fly, one of those nice ones that sits on your lap, purrs and keeps its claws in most of the time. But you have to remember it still has them and can bite!!

Ive been practising steep turns, glide approaches, and short take off and landings in mine recently. I can land her within 250 feet easily. If you go to:-

http://www.wellesbourneairfield.com

You can get her down on 18 and turn off at the first intersection easily. Doing the same on 36 is more difficult because your coming in over a hill with trees. This field was very active in WW2 if you look at the history section you will see a lot of crews were lost because of those trees and hill.

I took Ken Scott from Vans flying from here when he visited the UK.
 
N941WR said:
...We discussed stalling it above the threshold and riding it down with the rudder and adding a little power before the smash down...
Click to expand...

The last time I flew a 9 I found myself way high on final so I just pulled it into the buffet and rode it down to the round out. A little burst of power in ground effect and relaxing the aft stick was all it took to settle on nicely. I think I was indicating 48 MPH or so most of the way down final. Not something to do on a gusty day, but no particular drama.
 
Toobuilder said:
The last time I flew a 9 I found myself way high on final so I just pulled it into the buffet and rode it down to the round out. A little burst of power in ground effect and relaxing the aft stick was all it took to settle on nicely. I think I was indicating 48 MPH or so most of the way down final. Not something to do on a gusty day, but no particular drama.
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Wow, also terrible technique. You're a control input, thermal, gust away from never doing that again. One of the signs of a professional is taking a go around like a man.
 
Sig600 said:
Wow, also terrible technique. You're a control input, thermal, gust away from never doing that again. One of the signs of a professional is taking a go around like a man.
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If you have a C/S prop on a 9, you can come down just as steep as you want. No problem! I know the OP doesn't have C/S, but don't know about 9's in the replies.

L.Adamson
 
L.Adamson said:
If you have a C/S prop on a 9, you can come down just as steep as you want. No problem! I know the OP doesn't have C/S, but don't know about 9's in the replies.

L.Adamson
Click to expand...

I was talking about riding it in buffett to work off a high approach.
 
Toobuilder said:
The last time I flew a 9 I found myself way high on final so I just pulled it into the buffet and rode it down to the round out. A little burst of power in ground effect and relaxing the aft stick was all it took to settle on nicely. I think I was indicating 48 MPH or so most of the way down final. Not something to do on a gusty day, but no particular drama.
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This seems kind of nuts, unless the -9's buffet is a LOT further from the stall than my -6's is. I would imagine the -9 slips pretty well, seems like a much safer alternative...

-jon
 
mosquito said:
This seems kind of nuts, unless the -9's buffet is a LOT further from the stall than my -6's is. I would imagine the -9 slips pretty well, seems like a much safer alternative...

-jon
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Certainly not a common or even "normal" approach, but far from nuts... The 9 is quite controlable with the stick held firmly in your lap and shaking like a wet dog. It responds very well to rudder input. Go up nice and high and try it sometime. Nothing to be afraid of.

Yes, a go around was the more appropriate solution, but I knew getting out of the buffet was as simple as moving the stick forward a quarter inch - so no problem I could see taking it right into ground effect. Like I said, no drama whatsoever.

And no, it does not slip very well at all.
 
I'll second

Toolbuilders buffet approach. Just another trick to have in your bag "just in case" you really HAVE to land short. I have practiced this with my Aeronca Chief, and for that airplane it works well in that the gear just goes squish, and the airplane is done flying. It is a pick you day thing to practice, and can be C.G. dependent. True the margins are tighter, not having excess energy for the flare. Its nice to know you can pick a spot and hit it consistently without any extra energy if you have to. It is not my everyday technique.
 
You're playing with fire.

Guys, I gotta go with Sig on this one. Riding the buffet to near touchdown just seems awful dicey to me, although I've never tried it.

I've flown quite few -9's but never in a buffet to near touchdown.

If it's so easy to do safely, the -9 is more awesome than I thought.

Be safe,
 
Buffet

There is not much margin between the buffet and the stall on or 9 but ours might be different to lycoming engined versions as our thrust line is a bit higher.
But stick forward and power on she is out of the stall instantly.

Would I ride the buffet to loose hight.........only if I was in desperate need to make a field with engine out.........otherwise hight is energy which can be converted to speed, or distance. We pay too much for our fuel in Europe just to throw it away.

So my method is start planning a long way out, turn the hight into speed slowly trading that speed for hight again as I get back to the circuit.
 
You guys crack me up! Do you actually fly your airplanes or simply drive them around the pattern? When you go out and practice, is it a search for understanding your machine better, or simply repeating the same old maneuvers your CFI showed you?

Yes, riding the buffet into the flare is an unusual technique, but in the right conditions (and armed with an intimate understanding of the machine), the risks are pretty minimal, and it's fun. After all, the required control input to go from fully "stalled" to "flying" is fractions of an inch of the stick. There's plenty of authority to handle a small gust or thermal. In fact, I would argue that the recovery input is far less than if you were in a full slip - plus you are not totally crossed up in uncoordinated flight with the "buffet" approach. I wouldn't do it on every approach, but as a skill development exercise it's worth the minimal risk.

Those of you with 9's who have not experienced "stick in the gut", fully developed stalls yet should go out and try it sometime. See for yourself just how little stick movement it takes to go in and out of the stall in your airplane. It is a sweetheart of an airplane, and I suspect that some of you owners really don't fully understand just why.
 
"And no, it does not slip very well at all."
"With that big rudder you'd think that it would"

I never did the buffet thing as a landing technique but use a forward slip often on final. Works very well. :)
 
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David-aviator said:
Riding a buffet on final to correct for a screwed up approach from the git-go?.
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Yes, to see if it could be done... It can.

I think some of you are confusing the demonstrated "ability" to perform an action with its endorsement as a "normal" technique. Bob Hoover routinely proves the ability to do single engine aerobatics and deadstick landings in a corporate twin... but nobody here thinks he's trying to convince anyone to do that as normal ops.


David-aviator said:
Why not plan ahead, do it right, and fly the airplane safely at Vs plus 30%...
Click to expand...

Certainly the plan... but plans change. As pilots we need to be able to adapt. Most of the time the go around is the best choice, but on a calm day in an empty pattern, sometimes the opportunity to learn something new is too good to pass up. Besides, safety does not end at 1.3Vs...


David-aviator said:
You only get to to do a stall spin at 300' one time.
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A low level stall/spin is serious business for sure, but there are two things to remember:

First, if you are in coordinated flight, the airplane WILL NOT spin. You, as the pilot are in complete control of the "spin" or "not spin" situation. Repeat that out loud if you need to.

Second, the stall/spin scenario is NOT a death sentence if you provide the proper input in a timely manner. Those of you who don't venture below 1.3 Vs except once every two years on a BFR should go out and get some practice. Get up high and stall that thing! Despite the current FAA guidance, stall avoidance is NOT the key to safety... Learn to MASTER it!
 
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bsacks05 said:
"And no, it does not slip very well at all."
"With that big rudder you'd think that it would"

I never did the buffet thing as a landing technique but use a forward slip often on final. Works very well. :)
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Yes, it is perfectly controlable in a slip, so in that respect it slips "well". My point is that the airplane seems to maintain an impressive glide ratio even with the rudder hard over. So it doesn't slip "effectively" as something like a 170 or my Hiperbipe (the latter going to about a 1:1 glide ratio in a slip).
 
David hit the nail on the head. Landing begins on downwind. That said, I have the most trouble in no- or very low-wind situations. I seem to turn final high and need to lose a bit of altitude. My rpm is set very low (400rpm on the ground at idle) and that helps. I think the 9 slips very well, especially at a low safe speed. Slowing almost to buffet works well, too, but I would never get down to actual buffeting. Too close to stall for me! I will ride a slip almost to flare, but I break slow flight at about 100'. If I am not in good position there, it's go around time. Final isn't a good place to push the envelop, IMHO. I greatly respect wind gradient, especially with higher wind speeds. And yes, the 9 takes some practice, but isn't that true of everything?

Bob
 
slips?

I'm not Bob Hoover so when I come in a little high in my Luscombe I have no problem slipping to the desired altitude. I do this in gusty winds and calm days because I know it is safe and it works. Do I stay in my comfort zone and within my skill level? Yup. Maybe not someone elses but I'm not silly enough to go there.
 
Toobuilder said:
Actually, my CFI showed me this with the Cessna Cardinal I was flying as a student. Works great for getting down in a hurry.
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Your CFI should have his ticket pulled. I spent years teaching and would NEVER try and justify this. If you've botched your approach so bad that riding deep in the back side of the power curve is the only way to save it, you go around. Period. This in no way meets the criteria of a stabilized approach. You're painting yourself deep into a corner, and you only get one shot at screwing this up.

By the way the cardinal has leading edge slots in the stabilator for a reason... May want to research why.

Bob Hoover may have done some unconventional things, but he was demonstrating energy management. He never boxed himself into a corner he couldn't get out of. If you have a mult engine rating you understand exactly what he was really showing with his engine out routine.
 
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I have been around a lot of instructors. I know of only one who would routinely teach mushing type approaches at well below normal approach speeds. He was not my instructor but I was around to see this and it made me really uncomfortable.

One of this fellow's students was a friend of mine. He was a real good guy with well below average flying skills. He got his license and bought a complex single that he flew quite a bit. A few years later he also purchased a two place Kolb that he also flew quite a bit.

One day I was around as he was getting ready to go out in the Kolb. He told me that he wanted to practice to land out at an interesting local spot that does not have a runway so he was going to practice "slow" approaches. I was still there on the ramp when his "slow" approach turned into a stall then spin into the ground from about 200 feet. I rushed out to the crash site with another buddy to find my friend entangled in the wreckage, dead.

It is my view that there is an appropriate approach speed for each particular landing. It seems that most people are way over that right speed most of the time. For a short field landing the appropriate speed may be quite slow. The drag it in with power then cut the throttle to immediately land is kind of extreme but sometimes necessary. I am way more comfortable with that kind of approach even though a loss of power means bad things will happen, than the mush it down right above the stall approach. Like I said, that one makes me really uncomfortable.
 
Sig600 said:
...You're painting yourself deep into a corner, and you only get one shot at screwing this up...
Click to expand...

OK, help educate me. Where are the gotcha?s (i.e. zero ?outs?) in the following situation?

On final @ 500 feet AGL in an RV-9. Full flaps, throttle at idle, above glideslope and 1.05 Vs

Pilot?s intent is to intercept the glideslope and then accelerate to 1.3Vs to allow a landing in the normal touchdown zone. Just for fun, the pilot will chase the glideslope all the way to roundout if needed.

?Let?s make this an learning adventure and see if you can give me a situation that I don?t have a reasonable ?out? for.
 
So..... you're at ktcy where there is a pit at the end if the runway ...
The 20 Kt headwind stops dead....

The aircraft starts to fall like a rock .....

You add power....

But the engine sputters and quits ...
And doesn't restart....

Aircraft crashes in pit....
 
Toobuilder said:
OK, help educate me. Where are the gotcha’s (i.e. zero “outs”) in the following situation?

On final @ 500 feet AGL in an RV-9. Full flaps, throttle at idle, above glideslope and 1.05 Vs

Pilot’s intent is to intercept the glideslope and then accelerate to 1.3Vs to allow a landing in the normal touchdown zone. Just for fun, the pilot will chase the glideslope all the way to roundout if needed.

…Let’s make this an learning adventure and see if you can give me a situation that I don’t have a reasonable “out” for.
Click to expand...

You can play these games all day long, it's the scenario you can't think of that will kill you.

If you're at 1.3 unable to work off a high with less power or a fwd slip, your out is to go around and do it again, correctly.

There are plenty of approach ends littered with the undisciplined that thought they had a more creative technique. The 1.3/stabilized approach standard is written in blood. At work I've got 40k pounds of thrust and an ejection seat to get me out... I'll always go around, in anything, if I didn't set myself up for success at the beginning. I've never accepted anyhing less from my students either.
 
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MauiLvrs said:
So..... you're at ktcy where there is a pit at the end if the runway ...
Click to expand...

OK, I'll play...

Pretending for a moment that I'm dumb enough not only landing into a gusty, 20 knot headwind without 10 knots of "gust factor" applied to my approach speed, but I also have full flaps and I'm on the stall buffet...

For this chain to result with a landing in the pit, the wind would have to stop (and stay that way), the engine would have to quit, and I would have to have driven right through glideslope without noticing it (I started high, now I'm low, remember).

I'll admit that this is a possible situation - I could end up in the pit.

So what happens when you apply the same exact scenario to a student flying his FAA approved, 2 mile final, stabilized approach in a 172. He also ends up in the pit, doesn't he?
 
Hazardous Attitude 1: Resignation
'Whats the use? Forget it I give up!'
When operations at the flight deck don't go as planned or when confusion arises, it is human nature to blame it on fate. However, in aviation 'leaving it to fate' might and most probably compromise the safety of the flight. It is essential for all pilots to remain proactive and also reactive. The countless SOP's, rules, regulations that have been placed for flight operations were formulated to assist flight crew to tackle and troubleshoot every possible

Hazardous Attitude 2: Anti-Authority
'Why should I listen to you?'
This attitude usually surfaces upon people who have non conformist tendencies. Pilot that express such an attitude are usually resentful towards comments and/or advice from others, be it superiors or subordinates. The also tend to disregard operating procedures, rules and regulations. However, there is a fine line that lies between 'anti-authority' and the natural prerogative to question to authority especially when there is an error suspected. Many mistake anti-authority as a solution to balance out the 'power gradient' in the cockpit. Hence it is only wise for pilots to bring up issues that they feel go against protocol after checking and rechecking.

Hazardous Attitude 3: Impulsivity
'Do it QUICKLY!'
This occurs to pilots who feel the need to do anything, immediately. Such people who display such attitude work on the concept that 'doing something is better than doing nothing'. Such an example of impulsivity occurs particularly in the ab-initio stages of flight training. For example when facing unusual attitudes such as a descending turn, most pilots would pull back on the control column on impulse. Doing so would cause indicated airspeed to increase dangerously, hence proper procedure would be to throttle back before applying back pressure. Acting on impulse is dangerous as it usually involve uncalculated and irrational actions.

Hazardous Attitude 4: Invulnerability
'Nah I dont think it'll happen to me!'
Despite the fact that mishaps in aviation do have a rather low percentage probability, many still rest assured on this fact and oft take it for granted. Such attitudes would compromise vigilance and cause pilots to overlook certain issues that they feel are of less importance (going thru checklist twice, good lookout). Remember accidents can happen to ANYONE!

Hazardous Attitude 5: Macho
'Come on! I can do this!'
Pilots have a tendency to show how good they are. Many associate this attitude with males (especially those who display alpha male characteristics) but such an attitude can also happen in females. It occurs when pilots are trying to prove themselves in the wrong way, which often results in taking unnecessary risks.
 
Toobuilder said:
So this "unescapable corner" you speak of is simply the "unknown"?
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Keep thumbing your nose at the proven practices of safety that have been preached and practiced for decades. I sincerely hope it works out for you.

It's never the shooter you see that kills you, you're advocating walking onto the battle field with blinders on because you can turn your head and look around fast enough.

I can almost guarantee the CFI that taught you this would be the winner of a 709 if he taught this in ear shot of a fed.
 
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Risk vs. Reward

For "Toolbuilder": As my son was growing up, we would occasionally have discussions about doing fun, interesting, and dangerous things. Some of those things involved flying.

At some point, I introduced him to the idea of Risk vs. Reward.

We had extensive conversations around the Risk vs. Reward theory. I only later in life got feedback from him that this idea had actually enabled him to make some decisions along the way that may have saved his life.

So my question is: What Risk are you taking by flying in buffet very close to the ground, and what is the perceived Reward?

The equation seems out of balance to me.
One man's opinion, and worth exactly what you paid for it.
And I'm curious why you are defending your position so vehemently?
 
My responsibility.

Guys, I'm a CFI and have been for many, many years.

This is for all the newbie pilots/RV builders out there:

Do not try this "buffet-riding" technique on approach!...If you insist, do it up high.

This is totally unconventional and I'm outta here.

You'd also do well to take Sig's advice to heart.

Gone,
 
Just Another Free Opinion

While I can't say I've ridden a buffet all the way to the ground in my 9A, I think the risk is minimal. Michael makes a very good point in terms of digging deeply into the performance capabilities of the aircraft we fly. My own experience, especially doing flight reviews, tells me that very few pilots practice flight at MCA or full stalls. More to the point, reading thru this thread leads me to believe there's limited understanding to the flight characteristics of the RV9. If you haven't already done so, take at least an hour in one doing slow flight and stalls-there's no comparison to the other RVs.
More to the point, shortly after I completed flight testing nearly 8 years ago, my wife expressed some interest in "learning" to fly the RV. In any event, I ended up signing her up for a "pinch hitter" course. The emergency technique we settled on for her was:
1.Reduce power to descend
2. Any time she's comfortable but well before she's near the ground, stick slowly back all the way.
3. Stick centered, steer with the feet.
4. Try to avoid buildings or trees.
5. Flaps? Only if you remember.
Yes, she has practiced this...

Try that technique with a 9 if you get the chance. Note your descent rate and
airspeed. Is it survivable? Just ask Michael. Oh yeah, and if you can't avoid hitting something, the difference in kinetic energy between 50 and 65 kts is
nearly 70%.
Terry, CFI
RV9A N323TP
 
Just So There's No Confusion...

Do your practice at altitude, as Pierre suggests. Most importantly, PRACTICE! If you don't think it's important, take a hint from professional golfers -they all hit thousands of balls on the range for every one on the course.
Terry, CFI
 
Pierre has what, 42 years of flying under him? I'm going on 20. Both are trying to convey how terrible of an idea this is. I can't think of a single pilot I know that would advocate this idea.

I'm out as well.

Speed is life, altitude is life insurance.
 
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Sig600 said:
Pierre has what, 42 years of flying under him? I'm going on 20. Both are trying to convey how terrible of an idea this is. I can't think of a single pilot I know that would advocate this idea.

I'm out as well.

Speed is life, altitude is life insurance.
Click to expand...

Energy management is life, it's not about speed. Sorry, this cliche bugs me a bit. I don't think Toobuilder was advocating what he was doing as something to teach students. How late you wait to recover the airplane from the mush is up to your skill, judgment, and risk tolerance. But it is a bag of tricks available to you. I don't have any problem with him doing it. Nobody's forced to do it, and everybody can make the decision for themselves. Bush pilots regularly fly their approach on the buffet, albeit with power. I don't think any of us would recommend that for most pilots either, but it's their choice and they can choose the limitations on their flying.

There's a massive continuum of pilot nature, experience, skill, and willingness to nudge up the calculated risks they take in the interest of pushing their abilities. Doing aileron rolls 20 ft. off the ground isn't for everyone either. Some can do it in their sleep, some will bust their ***. For those who think he sets a bad example, that's like saying airshow pilots set a bad example for neophyte acro pilots. Yep, he might prang his plane one day doing this, but that's his choice. Highly unlikely he'd actually stall/spin and kill himself or a passenger. Anybody who practices stalls/spins all the time can easily avoid this. As with any activity in life, emulating others is not always wise. Flying is no different.
 
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Thank you Terry and Eric for actually reading my posts and "getting it"!

This is about knowing the particular airplane and it's capabilities. As I said before, I reported my actual experience in the RV-9, thats all. I'm not on a crusade to change how landings are performed.

It is others (some of whom may have never even sat in a -9), that have deflected from the technical points to a discussion about "attitude".

I'm talking about the benign stall of the -9, that's it.
 
Good Posts

There are some good posts here and my view runs in the centre ground with this one. The RV9 is a pussycat as I have said before, the buffet is easily recognisable and I agree that we should practice in this area. On my BFR a few days ago, my instructor wanted me to approach the stall, and recover as soon as I felt it developing.

When we got into the buffet I held her there and said she was about to go and was told I could recover at that point. Instead I held her in the buffet then fully stalled her and recovered. All at 3000ft with no pressure and no problems.

Could I have held her in the buffet all the way down to an approach with safety, yes I have no doubt I could, but I am very used to the aeroplane and high pressure situation. Would I trust some of my pilot friends to do this while I sat next to them...........not many of them, but one or two I would.

It all depends on skill level, ability, being able to deal with the pressure, Perhaps Toolbuilder showed these attributes to his instructor when he learned to fly, so passed on this ability to a good student. He may well not have shown this to anyone else.

Aeroplanes bite the underconfident, the overconfident and the unprepared. Which one would you be the one who has not practised stall spin recovery because its a bit scary, the one who does it too close to the ground where you cant recover, or the one who forgot to check there was enough fuel in the tank for the flight?

Like someone else has said don't jump on him because he has a skill level which may exceed yours, otherwise you should jump on aerobatic pilots, ice pilots, perhaps even commercial pilots. But Toolbuilder should be careful not to encourage others to fly into areas which may be outside thier capabilities.

Practice round the stall at a safe altitude and keep a safety margin you owe it to yourself, your family and the community. Part of my job was pulling bits of bodies out of wreckage, and then informing the family they had lost a son/father/brother/sister. IT aint fun!!!
 
I agree with Pierre and Sig although I do understand what Michael is talking about as far as the -9's imminent stall characteristics. You can in fact ride the buffet down in a -9. However, I have done this (at altitude) and I have had the plane fall out from underneath me unexpectedly. I just did this very maneuver a couple weeks ago while demonstrating stalls to one of my students. He was thrilled at how the plane buffeted and with very light handed controls you could keep it going for some time. Until, it just plopped. Then he wasn't so impressed.

As a CFI I have been close to stall buffet down low and the ONLY proper instruction is to add full power and pitch for recovery. There is no way I would teach this technique to anyone.
 
I find it interesting that many of the loudest critics in this thread have no relevant experience in the -9, while those that do fly them have a more moderate tone.

There's a lesson in that somewhere.

Maybe if I limit my responses to those that are actually qualified to be in the discussion we can keep the thread on track.
 
Toobuilder said:
I find it interesting that many of the loudest critics in this thread have no relevant experience in the -9, while those that do fly them have a more moderate tone.

There's a lesson in that somewhere.

Maybe if I limit my responses to those that are actually qualified to be in the discussion we can keep the thread on track.
Click to expand...

Ive got time in approx. 65 different makes and models, including RV's. I don't care what you're flying, you're advocating and indefensible position. See hazardous attitudes 4 and 5.

The RV-9 is not special, and not exempt from the laws of physics, murphys law, or sound decision making and technique.
 
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