[longranger]

True enough for magnetos, but with dual electronic you may not get any drop at all. In this case you need to look for the EGT rise to verify the grounding function.

Thanks for the reminder, Michael. I have noticed EGT rise during mag checks, but I don't regularly look for it. I plan dual EI on my -7, so I'm sure I'll have to adjust my habits! My point in this thread really was that you don't really need to go both off during a pre-flight mag check.

 

[gasman]

I plan to test mine during mag checks. One quick move to the off position will let me know the ground is still working. This should cut the risk of this failure mode way down.

This is not where my key switch failed in my Warrior....

It failed just to the left of off. As the switch aged, you could turn the key to the left in off position, but then it would go a little farther and unground the left mag even after the key was removed.

Piper did come out with an AD on this a few years after I replaced my switch. I did take the old one apart. After looking inside, I will NEVER install another one of those switches in an aircraft of mine. The switch is too complex for what is needed of it. That switch came about with the yoke in small airplanes to give people that familiar comfortable safe feel of their automobiles.

 

[gasman]

True enough for magnetos, but with dual electronic you may not get any drop at all. In this case you need to look for the EGT rise to verify the grounding function.

Or......With one off, shut off the other. Then do it in reverse. Do this at 700 rpm just before you finish pulling the mixture..... you did taxi leaned... right?

 

[Tumper]

Vlad

Hey I saw that...

 

[haydnc]

Does anyone know where i might be able to purchase an ignition switch that is keyless, like what the beechs and aero commanders use? Spruce have one but no start position. Thanks

 

[claycookiemonster]

Using stick switches?

One of the things I've noted in many posts is the use of buttons on military style stick grips for various operations like starter or flap or ident, etc. From my military background, this always strikes me as odd. In actual military aircraft, many of the buttons on the stick did VERY BAD THINGS, often ending in explosions, so having items which were used casually operated via stick grip buttons was the exception rather than the rule. I do remember that nose wheel steering was operated in that way, but little else.

Start buttons (no keys used in military or commercial) were on the forward panel, flap operation was by levers located near the throttles, ident was on the radio face plate. Even the radio transmit button was located on the throttle and operated by the left hand, lest one accidentally "transmit" an AIM-9 towards Lead when all you wanted to do was say, "two."

No doubt those buttons are tempting, and even in the military I thought it less than convenient to transmit with my left hand while flying with my right, and then have to tune the new radio frequency from memory after removing my left hand from the throttle. Still, we had to respect the possibility of "Master Arm" failure when playing around stick buttons just as you have to respect the possibility of ignition grounding when playing around a propeller.

It's all what you've grown up with.

 

[Walt]

I personally hate stick switches for anything other than PTT, Trim, AP.

Everything else just becomes a maintenance headache (stacks of relays, cheesy stick wiring/switches etc.). Sticks also become permanent fixtures and are basically 'non removeable'.

Not to mention the fact that when I'm working upside down under a panel with power on inadvertant operation of all the systems becomes a real operational hazard.

Recently worked on an AC with the following on BOTH sticks:
PTT, AP, TRIM, LANDING LIGHTS, STARTER, FUEL PUMP, FREQ XFR, IDENT
What a pain in the ***, I had stuff going on and off everytime I moved

 

[deek]

I have the Bendix version of the keyswitch in my plane and use it to control one mag and the Lightspeed. It allows starting on both the impulse mag and the LSE and works well. I'm of the opinion the GA manufacturers knew what they were doing when designing the panels and selecting the Bendix switch over toggles and a push-to-start momentary switch. i've had my switch apart once in 30 years to lube it and it continues to function perfectly - but full disclosure is that Klaus doesn't like or recommend 'em.
Here's a link for servicing the Bendix switch, but I think the Spruce version is functionally the same.

http://www.csobeech.com/files/Bendix_Ignition_Switch_Maintenance.pdf

 

[Toobuilder]

One of the things I've noted in many posts is the use of buttons on military style stick grips for various operations like starter or flap or ident, etc. From my military background, this always strikes me as odd. In actual military aircraft, many of the buttons on the stick did VERY BAD THINGS...

...It's all what you've grown up with.

Yes, there is a certain aspect of the "gee whiz" factor with a stick festooned with switches among some builders, but there is a practical side too. I've been resisting the trend toward a stick mounted starter, but with a high horsepower taildragger, keeping the stick firmly in your lap on start is a requirement (there's one hand tied up), and if you're fuel injected, juggling the throttle and mixture on a hot start ties up the other hand. I have managed to hook my arm around the stick in both the RV and my Hiperbipe so my hands are both free, but on my next cockpit makeover (Rocket) I'll look pretty hard at a stick mounted starter switch. I think that despite the non standard layout, it will address the unique configuration and operational requirements best.

 

[Jesse]

I personally hate stick switches for anything other than PTT, Trim, AP.

Everything else just becomes a maintenance headache (stacks of relays, cheesy stick wiring/switches etc.). Sticks also become permanent fixtures and are basically 'non removeable'.

They may be a maintenance headache, but they sure are nice to fly with. I love flying with flaps on my stick grip as well as all trims.

With the VP (200, at least), having the starter on the grip is nice because it only will do anything when you are is Before Start or Emergency mode. No relays to deal with.

 

[Bill_H]

I'm not sure but I don't think this has been mentioned. On the RV12 (and the RV14, I think), there is a separate rocker switch for each mag, on/off. The "keyed switch" is only the starter button equivalent - does nothing to the "mags" (dual electronic ignition actually on the 12.) I really like that setup on my -12.