H

hughfi

Well Known Member
Surprised there is not a thread on potential pilot apps for the iPAD already. Guess I will start one.

This device will be very usable for pilots in my view. Here is what I am expecting:

Foreflight for iPAD but is better than the iPhone version with the bigger screen.
Plates for the iPAD from the various kindle suppliers
Usable IFR and VFR charts. They were not practical on the iPhone but will be on the iPAD.
GPS via Bluetooth for iPAD. Really good platform with it based on it's fast processor. I expect voyager, anywheremap etc doing this with weather.
Anyone come up with a Bluetooth AHRS yet? If someone does, this would be a good backup. It already has a built in compass.
Pilot training apps etc. No brainer there.
If someone like Navworx.com added Bluetooth you could get weather and traffic on this thing through some app?
Checklists will be more legible on this system due to it's size and color will help here also.
Manuals, POH, VOR checks etc all of this could be done well on this platform.
It will support SD cards via an adapter so good for updating you AFS sd cards especially if you use 3G and don't have wireless at the hanger
black box recorder if someone has the PS9000 audio panel with Bluetooth?

That's all my ideas for now at least. Let's see.
 
hughfi said:
...
GPS via Bluetooth for iPAD...
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I don't know how well the iPhone GPS works outside of cellular data range (with my Palm Pre the GPS will not initiate outside of a data coverage area), but the iPad 3G should be similar. The specs list "Assisted GPS (Wi-Fi + 3G model)" the same as with an iPhone.
 
Anywhere Map? I'm kinda surprised that they haven't developed an iphone/ itouch app. Maybe now they will? I'd stand in line to buy it.
 
beav said:
...I've been using my iPad for over a year. Let me know if I can answer any other questions.
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I am continually amazed! It seems like no matter how esoteric the topic, there IS a true expert on this forum.
 
Jason,
Can the iPad connect to a WxWorx box for XM Wx via Bluetooth? What apps are you running?

Thanks.
 
The new ForeFlight is incredible. The approach plates, maps, charts, IFR filing features are really good on the IPhone but with the Ipad this program is going to rock the aviation industry. I hope the 3G version does in fact have GPS. ForeFlight just released a new version last month. I wonder if they knew it was going to be on this platform. This thing is going to make every EFB obsolete.
 
beav said:
Btw, I'm on the team at Apple that makes the iPhone/iPad, so I've been using my iPad for over a year. Let me know if I can answer any other questions.
Click to expand...
Some quick ones:

1. Will it come with a bluetooth keyboard profile? I can see myself using my Apple Bluetooth Wireless Keyboard with it.

2. Will the mapping app connect to a Bluetooth GPS?

3. Can the non-3G version tether to an iPhone over 3G?

4. Multitasking? and before you answer this, the follow-up question: Why not?

Thanks! I'm definitely in line for one. I see so many ways that I can use this and I haven't yet found a reason it's not better than my netbook.
 
Basic "need" is ability to display Sectional or IFR/approach maps with Gps position and track up. Also should display of Gnd Speed, track, distance, etc at same time as map.
I wonder if the display on iPAD will be bright enough for sunlight in glasshouse cockpit (I read somewhere else need 800 nits).
A program like Oziexplorer or Fugawi that would run on iPAD with Sectionals or IFR maps would be good.
John
 
I'm also curious if the brightness is adjustable.. betting it's too bright for night flight at it's default setting but I'm not certain. Anyone have an ideas on that?
 
beav said:
Btw, I'm on the team at Apple that makes the iPhone/iPad, so I've been using my iPad for over a year. Let me know if I can answer any other questions.
Click to expand...

Yep, I think we have people here that have done a little of everything!

* Any idea on the brightness of the screen? Doesn't seem to be listed on the Tech Specs on the site. Sun-light readability is definitely a huge factor in the bubble-canopied RV and I think this is where the less pretty "eInk" screens such as the Kindle really (pardon the expression) shine.

* Also, does the (confusingly-named) iBook feature support PDFs? Would be interesting for us loading up approach plates, etc.

* Any word on eventual Flash support? Yeah, I hate Flash and wish it would disappear off the face of the Earth but unfortunately there are a lot of websites were it's needed (the Trutrak website, for example).

Also Jason it looks like you guys did a great job, as always.

I have to admit, being a huge gadget guy myself (yes, I have a 3GS) I was a little skeptical at first but then as the presentation progressed I was more and more impressed. I can definitely imagine that thing sitting on the end table beside my chair..or riding next to me in my RV.
 
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GPS / Aviation add-ons

beav said:
The iPhone 3G and 3GS as well as the iPad 3G all contain a real GPS receiver that works just fine outside of cellular coverage areas (though the Maps application obviously can't retrieve map images from Google in such a situation). An app that cached map data locally would work just fine though.

Btw, I'm on the team at Apple that makes the iPhone/iPad, so I've been using my iPad for over a year. Let me know if I can answer any other questions.
Click to expand...

Keep us posted on Apple related developments with this thing. With the iPad 3G does that mean you have to contract with AT&T or anyone else for service? I've been looking at some of the add on GPSs( http://gpscradle.dualav.com/cradle.html ) for my iTouch for GPS capability as well.
 
beav said:
> Any word on eventual Flash support? Yeah, I hate Flash and wish it would disappear off the face of the Earth but
> unfortunately there are a lot of websites were it's needed (the Trutrak website, for example).

I can't say anything about this.
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I don't think you need to say anything more. :)

I think the iPad as the possibility of being a good EFB, but it will take an app for that (sorry, had to). The hardware and OS look great.

TODR
 
Shameless plug but have you tried SkyCharts ?
It will definitely support iPad natively when you can actually buy one.

rjtjrt said:
Basic "need" is ability to display Sectional or IFR/approach maps with Gps position and track up. Also should display of Gnd Speed, track, distance, etc at same time as map.
I wonder if the display on iPAD will be bright enough for sunlight in glasshouse cockpit (I read somewhere else need 800 nits).
A program like Oziexplorer or Fugawi that would run on iPAD with Sectionals or IFR maps would be good.
John
Click to expand...
 
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beav said:
The iPhone 3G and 3GS as well as the iPad 3G all contain a real GPS receiver that works just fine outside of cellular coverage areas (though the Maps application obviously can't retrieve map images from Google in such a situation). An app that cached map data locally would work just fine though.
Click to expand...

So...there is a GPS receiver in my Iphone, but it's useless as shipped (if I'm outside cellular coverage....which is quite often with ATT)?? What app should I get that will allow my GPS on my Iphone to work outside of cellular tower coverage? Thread creep I know, bit I am a lover of my Iphone with Foreflight and am waiting to see a pad in person! :)

Cheers,
Stein
 
beav said:
> Can the non-3G version tether to an iPhone over 3G?

Although the OS supports tethering, this would require carrier deals to enable. Personally, I've had my laptop tethered through my iPhone for the last six months or so and the experience is completely seamless.
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I may have worded that poorly... What I meant to ask was, can the iPad connect to an iPhone via bluetooth, and the iPhone connect to the 3G network, and that way use the iPhone's 3G networking to provide network services to the iPad. Just like you do with your laptop now. My iPhone3G is tethering-enabled, and I do the same thing you do with your laptop, i'm just wondering if i'll be able to do that with the iPad or whether i'll have to buy an iPad with 3G.

> Multitasking? and before you answer this, the follow-up question: Why not?
...Basically, you've put the user in charge of managing when apps start and stop. The end result for most users is that lots of apps end up running all the time which degrades system performance and kills battery life.
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That I understand. If you can provide feedback to the dev team, i'd suggest this: My jailbroken iPhone runs the apps Backgrounder and ProSwitcher. I do notice that if I leave apps in the background, that my battery life suffers. At times, I am willing to live with that. When i'm not, I manually close the apps I don't want. However, at least so far, I haven't noticed a performance hit. Maybe i'm not running anything really difficult in the background.

Perhaps there could be a way to make this a user-selectable thing... Kind of like the brightness. You could choose to have the OS manage the apps, or choose to manually close things when you're done. An "advanced settings" page or something. Unfortunately this probably goes against Steve's philosophy for the product, so we'll just have to wait for someone to jailbreak the iPad. :)

Thanks for answering some questions (and not answering the ones you can't talk about). It's nice to know that there's someone around who knows about the internals a bit.

To whoever asked about PDF's, I don't know if iBook can read them but the iPhone can read PDF's just fine if you get them in an email. I know I have an app that displays PDF's but I forget the name and the phone isn't handy right now... I think I had to start the app, and then download the PDF from within the app, but it did work.
 
beav said:
> Jason so you are a foreflight user. You have a chance to use the app on your demo?

I think I've run it once, but only to see if it works. Since I haven't been able to take my iPad out of the building, I'm never near it when I decide to fly.
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Hey Jason
First off I love my iphone:D and am sure I will end up with a iPad.... quick question will you be able to download picture from your camera right too the iPad?? or will it need to go thru iPhoto first?
Thanks
I am just thinking besides IAP and the such how nice will it be to load pics from flying trips and post them right away...way cool
 
the_other_dougreeves said:
I don't think you need to say anything more. :)

I think the iPad as the possibility of being a good EFB, but it will take an app for that (sorry, had to). The hardware and OS look great.

TODR
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Allowing Flash content would essentially allow developers to circumvent the app store. I'll be very surprised if Flash is ever supported on the iPhone.
 
Jason- it would really be nice if the Camera Connection Kit provided an additional dongle that allowed a CF card slot to pull the images directly. I know the USB cord could be used directly from the camera, but I need to keep using the camera while an assistant backs up the CF card. Most pro level cameras still use CF cards.
 
3G Provider Question, iPad flaws

Can you use the iPad 3G on any network, or just AT&T? We have very little AT&T in Montana. You can't even buy AT&T (or Sprint) service here. Verizon, on the other hand, pretty much blankets the state.

Apple has gone a little crazy with the dongles lately. They are just more stuff to carry around, keep track of, and lose; what a pain! One would think that they could at least put the USB port right on the machine.

I think my biggest disappointment was the lack of a zero light output mode for the screen, like the Kindle. This reduces eyestrain considerably, and is for me necessary to make the leap away from paper.

I would be very surprised if the iBook app didn't support pdf, my understanding is the whole OS essentially renders in pdf.

Hans
 
Jason,

iPad question: Why the 10,000 ft altitude limit? It has no moving platter hard drive, correct?

George
 
I'd love to get one of these for use as an EFB, but it HAS to support bluetooth DUN for tethering to my cell phone. I already pay for a data plan on my phone and for internet at home. I'm not willing to pay three different monthly charges for internet access.
 
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When I looked the iPad over yesterday my first reaction was disappointment. I understand why the iPhone has limited capabilities, it is and was intended to be a lightweight device. I had expected that the iPad would be a full OS X computer in a tablet form like the tablet computers out there that run Windows.

Given this, even though we have a Mac household my inclination would be to take a serious look at Windows based tablets before purchasing the iPad. Of course there will be trade offs such as weight, drive types, GPS and cost. So perhaps the iPad is worth looking at. I just expected more.

Having said that I should mention I have developed on iPhone app that I had on the app store. The problem with the app store is that there are so many applications out there that it's easy to get lost. I finally pulled my app because my server costs were exceeding my app's income.

Anyhow, back to the iPad. Why would I it when I could get this instead? At least it has a real OS.
 
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I recently purchased the Motorola Droid, which has a built in GPS powered by Google soft ware. It is the same size as the I phone, but has a qwerty keyboard as well as the virtual one. I wonder if this would also be a good alternative for a spare GPS. There are many weather apps that might be utilized with it. The nice things about the Droid are it's amazing screen resolution and the 5" diagnol screen. The are a variety of mounts out for it that could be made useful in a plane. Since the GPS is built in, there is no extra charge for GPS service, like other phones.

Just a thought

Roberta
__________________
 
AHRS opportunities for the IPAD

The guys from Levil Technology have a bluetooth AHRS with an embedded engine pod. We are working on an App so that you can have primary flight and engine performance monitoring on the IPAD.
If some of the navigation software people develops their software for the IPAD and interface it with the AHRS you can have synthetic vision.
Any inputs on this?
 
Roberta,

A pox on you for even mentioning the Droid phone in an Apple thread!

All the capabilities you mention are also part of the iphone/ itouch units. Is there something about the Droid that makes it more suitable for this purpose? The Apple units also have GPS built in as well.
 
Teather Ipod to Laptop

Jason

I've had my iphone for two years and have bought a loptop recently to travel with. How do you teather your iphone to your laptop?
 
Verizon has better coverage for me in East Troy and I like the Google maps. Had AT&T had decent phone coverage where I live, I may have gotten the I phone. I just think that I pad is too bulky. I do love my Droid.

Roberta
 
That's surprising. I've always gotten pretty good coverage out at your place w/ my iphone. For what it's worth, the iphone does have Google maps, which is handier than a case of duct tape when traveling. I'm hoping the ipad w/ aviation charts will be similarly handy.
 
G Swartley said:
I've had my iphone for two years and have bought a loptop recently to travel with. How do you teather your iphone to your laptop?
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In the US of A? You don't. iPhone tethering works in virtually every other country where the iPhone is sold but it does not work here because AT&T refuses to turn it on. The US is in the dark ages in terms of mobile service. It's getting better, but we're still way behind the rest of the industrialized world.

The only thing I hate about my iPhone is that it's locked to AT&T.

Go to this site and see how many carriers are supported in other countries. Even our good friends in Canada have 4 different carriers that you can use the iPhone on.
 
No hands on yet but looks GREAT

Obviously, we are all reacting to iPad news items because unlike Jason, we have not had a hands on experience with it.

I, for one, can't wait to see what developers do with the iPad. I understand (from some internet sites) that until you have had the unit in your hands and use the finger/gesture interface you can't really judge the overall usefulness of the product. They all say (well, most of them) it is incredible.

Remember this is a 1st generation product (yes, lots of technology and software borrowed from the iPhone and other Apple products but still a 1st generation product) I can't wait to see where this one goes. Lots of people who now own iPhones pooh, poohed them early on as well.

On a side note: I have used Foreflight (my attempt to somewhat get back to making this an RV thread) when my AT&T signal went dead while driving in my car. I had preloaded the Foreflight maps (VFR) and the GPS tracked along great. It's a terrific app and I'm looking forward to it being even better on an iPad.

Terrific job Jason and tell Steve I said "Hi" ;)
 
I had Cingular in the past and had difficulty getting reception in the house. Other people had similar problems in the house with AT&T. I really like Verizon and there support.
 
I'm certainly looking forward to it. I've been an iPhone developer now for about a year and a half, and I have a couple aviation apps up already, like my
InstantWx app.


I've done some work on a chart case app for the iPhone, but I kept running up against limitations that made it less than ideal. The iPhone display is just too small to show an approach plate, for one. Another is the 2G application sandbox limit, which is too small to hold a full set of NACO plates.

Jason, do you know if the iPad will have the same 2G app sandbox limit?
 
Hey Beav... one question for you.... I was under the understanding that the current iphone SDK didn't allow the display to be constantly "on" for apps. (just movies) is the ipad going to allow this? perhaps when connected to a USB power supply?
 
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Sounds like there should be a nexrad weather app for a overlay. So much for the new touch screen GPSs in the 4" screen. Xm weather data is free off the satillites per the federal goverment. All you have to do is get your own system and sell it to all of us for $5 a month. Great app! Cheap price too for the IPAD! Good job APPLE
 
compute42 said:
Hey Beav... one question for you.... I was under the understanding that the current iphone SDK didn't allow the display to be constantly "on" for apps. (just movies) is the ipad going to allow this? perhaps when connected to a USB power supply?
Click to expand...

The current SDK does allow you to keep the display always on. I've done some work on a moving-map GPS app for iphone, and I do exactly that.
 
ron sterba said:
So much for the new touch screen GPSs in the 4" screen. Xm weather data is free off the satillites per the federal goverment.
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Really? If the weather data is free, then do the new Garmin (and others) handhelds that do XM weather have to pay a monthly fee to get the weather overlay? I was under the impression that they did. If not, then I would seriously consider returning my Aera 500 in favour of the 510.
 
compute42 said:
Hey Beav... one question for you.... I was under the understanding that the current iphone SDK didn't allow the display to be constantly "on" for apps. (just movies) is the ipad going to allow this? perhaps when connected to a USB power supply?
Click to expand...

I don't believe this is true (or there's a workaround) because Skycharts stays open on my 3GS.
 
ron sterba said:
Sounds like there should be a nexrad weather app for a overlay. So much for the new touch screen GPSs in the 4" screen. Xm weather data is free off the satillites per the federal goverment. All you have to do is get your own system and sell it to all of us for $5 a month. Great app! Cheap price too for the IPAD! Good job APPLE
Click to expand...

The problem of course is getting the data to your airplane on a long cross country. 3G coverage in the air is horrible...especially during a cross country at altitudes most of us RVers like to fly (8K-12K).
 
Jamie said:
The problem of course is getting the data to your airplane on a long cross country. 3G coverage in the air is horrible...especially during a cross country at altitudes most of us RVers like to fly (8K-12K).
Click to expand...

That's right. The reason XM can get away with charging us $600/yr for weather is because they're providing the data delivery service, via satellite.
 
G Swartley said:
Jason

I've had my iphone for two years and have bought a loptop recently to travel with. How do you teather your iphone to your laptop?
Click to expand...

It can be done, I've done it with some success, but if I am not mistaken you need to be running iPhone OS 3.0 to be enable it through a hack.

Just do a google search and tons of how-to's will come up.

One thing is for certain, I've got my work cut out for me with the AviatorApps.com site. ;):D
 
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beav said:
> Jason, do you know if the iPad will have the same 2G app sandbox limit?

I believe so, but if this isn't sufficient, please let developer technical support know.
Click to expand...

The biggest hurdle that I've faced with approach plates so far has been trying to figure out how to handle content delivery. Using StoreKit seems like it might be beneficial, but I'm still responsible for actually providing the data, and NACO books are a pretty sizable amount of data. It pretty much requires the user to sit down on wifi and watch it download, without quitting the app.

I'd love if there were a way to sync that data via itunes somehow, but so far I just haven't seen it.
 
As soon as I saw the unit, I envisioned a complete Electronic Flight Bag based around it. I'd love to get Dan C. in on integrating WeatherMeister into a complete flight planning suite, with approved IFR and VFR charting, JEP approach plates, an external WAAS GPS reciever and XM antenna (through the dock connector should be doable).

Anyone used the iPhone/iPod SDK?
 
GPS / Aviation add-ons

I got an ipod touch a few months ago and have been looking for an add on GPS. This one looks interesting http://gpscradle.dualav.com/cradle.html but I'm not finding any aviation GPS apps out there.

Is there anything? I'm also drooling over the ipad so hopefully this is related.
 
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