What do you want to know?
cobra said:
George,
You are confusing facts with opinions again.
Lycs are fine and dandy, and way overpriced, but nothing special. It is just an engine, goes round and round until it breaks, wears out, or gets recalled at your expense.
13B= $15-$17K??? Maybe if it is attached to a raging 93-95 twin turbo RX-7...
FWIW, I just bought a 0-mile Mazda Renesis (new improved 13B) engine for about $1850 (converted from AUD) along with 25 other smart people. 200-230 glass smooth HP on regular mogas, 220 lbs actual weight incl pallet+crate, no exhaust, no bell housing, has full FI parts, coils, alternator, pumps, etc. Thems the facts.
OK I am laughing, as far as price you get what you pay for.
Your "Dandy" paragraph means what? All engines wear. Are you claiming the rotary in a plane will last forever?
What recall? Be specific please. This is the same old tired bull hockey. When you can't come up with facts, than make personal comments or start defaming the Lycoming. Are you saying Lycomings are poorly designed? Poorly made? What? You tell me. School me on how terriable Lycomings are. They have been flying for over 50 years.
My twin with O320's was going on 2350 hours, L&R when I sold it, with mid 70's compression and 8-9 hr/qt. My Lyc O-360 was made in the early 70's and went to TBO, rebuilt and is going to TBO again, and it will do it another time and time after that three more times. There are no recalls or AD's on it, except I had to replace the oil pump at overhaul and some other minor issue. At least someone is watching and tracking it.
You don't have to attack Lycomings to feel good about your decision. On the other hand if you don't want to own up to the disadvantages of the wankel that's intellectually dishonest. I can't accused you all of lack of enthusiasm. Why not talk about how great the Wankel is, verses how terriable the Lycoming is. How it won airplane races or set records. Oh, ha ha yes that was the Lycoming winning races and setting records, sorry. my bad.
You are spouting rhetoric. Be Specific and use facts, what recall? Do you mean the crank AD on Lycs made over a few years with cranks from one forging house vendor? OK so what? Stuff happens. Tracy at RWS had an emergency notice on his PRSU. Fortunately he flys his own product and discovered it before a customer lost their propeller, plane or life. Slinging mud has no use in a technical discussion. I would rather talk about how to make the wankel better in a plane. However we have to agree to disagree, it's not ever going to dominate the world of light planes. This was researched in the 50's and 60's and was abandoned for commercial aircraft. Not until the experimental movement has there been a renaissance. I hope for the best, but the inherent engine design has a fuel burn and noise issue top on my TO BAD list.
What do you want me to say? You win, wankels are better than Lycs, except the wankel weighs more, burns more gas, uses oil, slower and are very noisy. Yep, other than that they're better.
Price! Take me to school please. I am not too cool for school. That is ONE rocking deal you got. Now I do cruise RWS, Atkins and wankel builder sites. So I am not totally clueless as you imply. I was going on leonard's cost list,
http://members.aol.com/vp4skydoc/ , $17,500 with the do overs. He bought two engines, one for $1,300 (no good) and the another for $7,500, so subtracting the $1,300 and 1/2 the price of the second engine (for no particular reason), you get about $12,500. That is do it yourself price.
I think in today's dollors, $15,000 to $17,000 for a real nice 13b-reis turbo set-up is not out of line, assuming you will have to farm out some fabrication. As far as a Lycoming, you can get a O-360 for just a tad over $20,000, brand spanking new. If you build it yourself from an engine kit with all new parts, take off $2,500 or so for a $17,500. So please don't talk about cost when Eggenfellner sells engines for way more than that.
If you could get a
powersport aviation rotary engine kit, FWF, it would be ++$30,000, plus $6,000 in options and a $9,000 electric prop. That is about in round numbers $45,000! The Lyc needs "accessories" but about $3,000 and the props are $3,000 to $6,800 (with gov). Don't get me wrong I am a huge Powersport fan; it's a very well designed kit and about as good as it gets. The results will be about O360 performance but at big fuel burn.
![Frown :( :(](data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7)
You can kid yourself but don't dillude others. The performance is there if done perfectly, but the Wankel is a THIRSTY son of a gun. I know the excuses, the ECU was not set right. OK what ever. One day they will set the ECU right.
Your 13B-REIS for $1,850 is great, but be honest, tell me about you and your 25 smart friends, can the get say another 100 more 13B renesis at that $1850 price. Cool if you can, I'll send you some customers. I have been schooled; everyone else pays that much for a tired old junk yard straight 13B's. U da man. Looking at
Atkins price list short block without core is about $3,000, so I know what I read. If you go with new parts its about $6,000.
It is cheaper than a Lycoming, I'll give you that, but by the time you add all the parts , PSRU, electonic engine controller, radiator and extra labor, you are not that far from a Lyc. You are right you can do it cheaper, but not by much and it will take 100's of hours of extra labor.
All that weight info and what HP you think its going to make, means nothing to me, until you mounted into a plane and fly it. As far as weight the rotary is better than a Subie, but it will still be 40-75 lbs more than a 160 or 180HP parallel valve RV. As far as power, why does Tracy run his RV4 in the 160 HP class? I guess it does not make 180 hp? Doha!
Get back to me when you finish it, weigh it and want to race.
Look we all can't agree. Best of luck with that project, and I mean it. You got to take the good with the bad. Have reasonable expectations and you will be happy, but attention wood-be builders thinking of an alternative engine, if you want to get into the air faster at least expense with max performance, the best alternative engine is take $20,000 and convert it into a new Lycoming clone. If you want to tinker and invent something unique, go with a rotary. (
I reserve all rights to be 100% totally wrong. If you disagree or have facts great, but don't be mean or you will hurt my feelings. ![Frown :( :(](data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7)
)