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Bob Axsom

Well Known Member
I have hung drywall, taped and used joint cement/compound in a house on a few ocassions but not for a long time. I have a nice large T-hangar and there is a lot of freedom to keep them up to our liking so I'm about to make some changes. The tail of the "T" has three corrugated walls but the wing tip ends of the "T" has drywall. These walls are 17' 9" long and approximately 14' tapering down to 12' tall. I am planning to install a photograph 12' tall and 16' wide directly on that wall ($4.50 per square foot plus tax).

The wall is fairly flat which is a good thing but the joints between the drywall panels are the worst I have ever seen. The tape is peeling off and the paint in that area is flaking badly. At some time in the past someone handled a load with a fork lift and gouged the drywall badly from the floor to about a foot above it. The photo sign store gave me a 6" wide strip of the adhesive backed paper off of a roll (4 ft wide) to see how it adheared to the wall. I wiped down one area with a dry cloth and left another area untouched. I cut the paper into two pieces, peeled the backing off and applied them to the two test areas of the wall (one wiped and one not). The piece on the wiped area was applied over a tape seam. A few days later both pieces were still the same as when they were first applied.

Tonight I loaded up my extension ladder, went to Lowe's (after setting the DVR to record The Gifted Man and Blue Bloods) and bought a 61 pound bucket of premixed joint compound and went to the hangar. I forgot to buy a roll of joint tape but I did do a few things with what I had:

1) I filled the fork lift holes and that went failry well

2) I pulled off the test photo paper strips. They came off with no trouble but so did the white paint that was on the wall - obviously a low grade latex. This means that the paper applied to this wall as is, cannot be removed and reapplied because the adhesive will be covered with paint. A one shot deal unless the surface is changed.

3) I tried applying the joint compound over the existing joint tape but that just didn't work. The joint tape is stiff from the original coating and curled away from the wall at the edges and it was not changed by the application of the new joint compound.

Tomorrow, I will buy a 500 ft roll of joint tape and redo all the joints. The 4'x8' drywall panels are mounted on their side (think landscape) so there are 4 horizontal joints and a lot of 4' vertical joints. Then I need to prepare the surface I'm thinking some good slick paint like epoxy but I will have to check on compatibility.

When that cures I will be ready to install the four 4'x12' or 4'x13' vertical photo strips with a 1" overlap.

That's my current plan - any thoughts? (other than be careful of course)

Bob Axsom
 
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Bob, I am sure your hangar looks a lot better than mine!

If you want the walls to have a finish that eliminates the old paint issue, you could get some discount vinyl wall paper and cover the areas you want that extra protection.

I wanted "ruggedness" so I opted to sheet my hangar with particle board (actually, as rocketbob said - it's OSB) which I painted. It's not as nice a finish as Sheetrock, tape, and mud. On the other hand, I can screw things directly into the sheething.

... and I will admit that I've hit the wall with both my mower deck and bumped into it with a forklift. ... I guess it's a good thing I opted for sheething :eek:
 
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A new beginning?

Well, Bob, it looks like some of us are up early. I have furbished and refurbished over the decades and i really don't like old drywall, especially in spaces without heat/cooling. I checked lowes site and at $0.25 to $0.30 per foot you might want to consider replacing it all. I like 5/8 due to the stability.

Choosing not to to return to the studs thing, you might just chip and scrape and grind the joints down to the original to reapply the tape. I like to have a water sprayer around for old drywall, as it is REALLY DRY and will suck the water out of joint compound so quick it won't stick well. Also, I have had good luck with Kilz paint, but i would wash/scrub the entire wall with a brush and hose before application to get rid of the dust and dryness. Even the latex sticks pretty well if the substrate is good.

Disclaimer, I am no drywall expert, I just made a lot of mistakes.

Good luck with this, oh . . . what is that cool picture you are putting on there? picture of a runway so your plane is happy?
 
Bob

I finished my hanger with knock down process. It looks nice and covers any imperfections. Basically it's textured spray that has been flattened With a trawl. Talk to your local drywall contractor about it. You can actually put paint in the mix and have it all done at once. Much cheaper and faster than tape,sand,prime and paint.
 
drywall

Bob,
If your exsisting paint is peeling off that easily then it probably was not primed or is painted with a very cheap builder grade one coat finish. Either way you can't put anything over it and have it adhere to the wall. Another option to removal would be to leave it in place and go over it with 3/8" drywall, glue and a few screws. Finish with a high grade primer like kilz, and then paint with good quality paint. For what you are doing I don't think it would matter what sheen you use on the paint, maybe go eggshell finish. If you do elect to take it down and start over consider using 12' sheets and avoid alot of seams.
 
T-111

T-111, either the real wood or the fake wood look nice in a garage. I use it in most garages other than the firewall to the house. It ends up costing about the same as drywall and it goes up quicker. Painted, it looks very nice and is easy to hang things on.

For the photo area, maybe 1/4" masonite over drywall or T-111, framed with some trim would give you the surface you need.
 
Drywall is a poor choice here due to humidity and temperature changes. You could hang OSB directly over the drywall and paint it, which would be very durable and looks nice. My hangar is heated and I remodeled it last year doing this, and I've been very pleased. All of the joints were filled with expanding foam, trimmed, and painted over you can barely see them.
 
I have a friend who put up metal panels, the same stuff used on the outside and it looks real good. But there are two qualifications....he just did the area around his work benches which is about a quarter of the hanger and he only did about half the height of the wall. I know the cost would be more than sheetrock but it would only be a one time job and it is extremely durable and did I say it looks real good?

Just another idea to think about......


Glenn Wilkinson
 
Going to stick with the existing drywall

Really good inputs thanks. I pulled all of the tape on one of the walls today and chipped off everything that would come off with a putty knife (mostly where filler had been applied over screws etc. - maybe 20%) then applied this new, to me, net adheasive tape and applied joint compound to joints in the lower part of the wall. I think this is going to satisfy my needs. If everything continues to work out I will post a photo.

Bob Axsom
 
Hi Bob, call me and I will solve your issues as Im an expert in both drywall and your mural install....

Robb...702-429-7291.....before you make a mistake!!:)
 
Dampness

Sounds like the drywall got wet. Definitely don't want to patch over that. Lots of alternatives that are cost effective and look great.
 
It might be easier to just sheet over the top with 3/8. If you want a really smooth finish you will end up with joint compound covering most of the sheet.
 
Here's Where I'm At 2-26-12

The drywall panels are 4'x12' nor 4'x8' as I had originally assumed. One of you guy's mentioned that or I wouldn't have even thought about it. The drywall itself appears to be in pretty good shape. The panels are installed with the long dimension horizontal and staggered. There are four panels stacked to the roof but the roof is slanted for run off so the height is approximately 16' to 14' and the width is 17'9" as I said earlier. I'm a fairly strong and capable 75 year old but I'm sure you understand that there are certain physical limits that have to be recognized in this labor of love - I have to work with the wall that is there. The paper joint tape, much of which had aready fallen off and all of it had delaminated, has been stripped from both the north and south walls. I also have used a metal bladed medium width putty knife to chip all of the paint and filler that would come off of both walls. I washed the joint areas with a sponge to remove the dust from the areas to be taped. The South wall, where I intend to apply the photo, has the ahesive "net like" tape applied over all the joints and I have covered the tape and gouges with premixed white (very light grey?) joint compound. I smoothed it as much as I could during the application but it will require sanding to remove imperfections. I will install the tape and joint compound on the joints of the north wall today. I hadn't heard from the photo/sign shop so I called them this morning. I was told they had to order some new software to get the resolution needed for this photo so they don't have the small scale layout ready for me to approve yet. I think they are taking this job to heart. My plan at this point is to sand the joint compound to blend the surface so there are no ridges or gaps. Then I think I need to remove the dust (I just washed and waxed the Blue Bird, sigh...) and paint both walls with something substantial that will provide a good surface for adhesion and a barrier to moisture. All this time I have to think how I can hang this very large photograph printed on four 4' wide strips of 12' or 13' feet long adhesive backed photo paper and get perfect alignment. I have several ideas using the "think ahead" skills I developed while building our RV-6A but I'm keeping the brain going.

Bob Axsom
 
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Called Robb in Las Vegas

Called Robb in Las Vegas and got some outstanding information. At the top of the list was to apply SW Gardz to the wall before trying the hang the photo. And use a seam buster to remove small strips of the photo paper backing to allow attachment and alignment without commiting to the entire strip at one time.

Bob Axsom
 
Got the GUARDZ on order

Sherman Williams store folks never heard of it but Home Depot special orders it for customers - they do not have it in the store. $99.97 for 5 gallons, covers 450 sq ft. Haven't got a source for the seam buster yet.

Bob Axsom
 
Finished sanding the walls and the Guardz arrived

I finished sanding the wall yesterday and did a lot of cleanup of the floors. There are some spots where the net like joint tape pattern is visible but I plan to live with that. The mess created by putting the joint compound on and sanding it off creates a mess that has to be seen to be appreciated. The beautiful dark blue airplane is now powdery white and that is a special cleaning problem. I plan to wash down the walls with a bucket of water and a sponge and then apply the Guardz sealer/binder. Robb in Las Vegas said he sprays it on but that is not possible in my situation. He said you can put it on with a roller and that seemed OK but when I am standing on an extension ladder trying to reach up to 16 ft with nothing to hold the Guardz but a bucket I just don't think that will work either. I think I am stuck with a brush. I possible could do the border with a brush and use a roller on an extension poll - have to think about that.

Bob Axsom
 
Brushed on two coats of Guardz today

I have never sealed a drywall before. It looks pretty impressive. The product Guardz comes in 5 gallon cans and looks like milk - same consistency too. When it cures on the wall it is as clear as water but the palms of my hands are absolutely black - Boraxo didn't cut it Tomorrow I plan to paint the walls. I think a smooth hard finish would be best. The photo will be printed on 48"wide strips of adhesive backed photo paper and it will be applied to this surface. Any suggestions for cleaning the hands or the paint?

Bob Axsom
 
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backing paper

Bob, have you considered using a backing wallpaper first before you attach the photo? I know when we do high end wallpaper, my paper hangar always puts a base wallpaper on first - especially with metallic papers. Having done a photo wall before, it may be worth considering. The advantage is you get a smoother wall to work on and less chance of little bumps in the photo. Depending on the photo, little imperfections could stand out or be hidden completely.

It is a pain and additional expense doing another layer and I would only do it if the photo had lots of single color - like sky or ocean.

For the hands, try that orange stuff you can get at Lowes or HD that gets off PVC glue. If that doesn't do it, GoofOff gets about anything off! Good luck with your project.
rockwood
 
Thanks for the input

I got most of it off with laquer thinner. I tried automotive hand cleaner also but its greatest benefit was probably to relubricate/hydrate my skin. I have some other solvents at the hangar and I will check Lowe's for the orange stuff tomorrow when I buy some paint. You are right I don't want to add another layer since it really isn't my wall. As it is I am just fixing the city's property and hanging my photo on it (which can be peeled off).

North wall before I started:

IMG_5471.jpg


Close up of the joint that remained taped:

IMG_5472.jpg


After striping and chipping before tape, joint compound, sanding and two coats of Guardz

IMG_5473.jpg


I'll have to take a photo tomorrow before I paint just in case the city gives me a hard time.

Bob Axsom
 
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Paint starting off not so good

Bought Lowe's Valspar Signature paint which they said is their best and a Purdy brush which they said is their best. Painted one 1.5 to 2 ft wide vertical strip and knew that I was not going farther with that combination. It was like pushing glue around with terrible brush marks. I'm hoping I'm not dealing with a sealer/paint incompatibility. Went back and bought a 12' extension and roller plus a few other utilities. We will see how this works.

Bob Axsom
 
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A-h-h-h-h YES!

Do you remember the movie where Meg Ryan is in this restaurant and tells the guy she is with that she has no trouble faking joy and fulfilment and after she finishes demonstrating another customer says "I'll have what she's having"? That is how happy I was with the results of my new tools - no faking.

IMG_5480.jpg


IMG_5482.jpg


I plan to add another coat tomorrow.

Bob Axsom
 
It's worse than it looks in the photo

I don't dare wipe it off or start the engine. One of these days soon I am going to pull it probably 150 yards to the wash rack and try to flood the sanding dust off then blow dry it at 180 kts.

Bob Axsom
 
PICTURE

Bob, with all this prep, I can hardly wait to see the photo you are going to put on the wall!
 
3-6-12 Neighboring hangar the Status and the picture

The guy from the neigboring hangar to the rear right came by and I didn't recognize him because he had put on some weight and actually changed general shape. Maybe he was swelled up with anger rather than weight. He said "you know who has a airplane that looks just like yours?" I said with great interest "No who?" He said "ME!". When I sanded the joint compond on my wall it not only covered enerything in my hangar but his as well. There is a gap up at the top of the dividing wall and I guess that was enough to allow his multiple award winning and Sport Aviation featured (in the Jack Cox days) Piper Clipper to be covered with thick dust. He went away with an understanding attitude when I explaind what it was and when it happened. I offered to vacuum his floor but he declined - I wouldn't think of touching his plane because it truely is exceptional.

So after dodging that bullet I put on the second coat of Valspar semi-gloss ultra white paint on both walls. It came out very smooth but if I get at the right angle I can see where the joints are. They will present no problem for the photo but they are not quite perfect.

I pulled the plane to the wash rack with 4 or 5 rest stops and flooded the surface with water. Since I had just washed the plane and waxed it before the sanding I thought the dust would just flow off but No-o-o-o it left a film that was almost as ugly as the original dust. It is going to need hand washing and waxing again. That's OK but I want to get started on a mod for the cooling air outlet. I flew it but that didn't help either.

Bedford Sign Bill told me he had a near full size example of my picture ready for review so I drove to the store in north Fayetteville and had a look. I was repulsed it was so bad when I was standing there a couple of feet away. After all this work preparing the wall I had to think about it. I thought how much we loved Claude Monet's impresionist paintings. Bill put it up on a wall about 15 feet away and it actually looked good. Altimately, I said let's go with it, just give me your best effort.

SO, it is still up in the air whether this sort of thing is practical or not. The saga continues.

Bob Axsom
 
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Bob Axsom said:
Bedford Sign Bill told me he had a near full size example of my picture ready for review so I drove to the store in north Fayetteville and had a look. I was repulsed it was so bad when I was standing there a couple of feet away. After all this work preparing the wall I had to think about it. I thought how much we loved Claude Monet's impresionist paintings. Bill put it up on a wall about 15 feet away and it actually looked good. Altimately, I said let's go with it, just give me your best effort.
Click to expand...

It's going to be like an advertising billboard image - they look fine from a distance but not designed for close-up viewing. Trust your print guy, I'm sure it will be a great result. :)
 
Hey Bob....Looks like your coming along just fine....If you applied your Gaurdz correctly, all the torn face paper of the drywall and any remaining loose paint or primer should be locked down like it was new. You will have no issues with paint compatibility as Gaurdz will accept any material when dry. Did you have any bubbles when applying your paint coats??....If so I will mail you something to fix it easily along with the proper squeegee you'll need for the installation. You can get a seam buster from Advance Equipment....800-621-4516....cheap and you will need it...get a pack of blades for it also as you will use this little gem for other things down the road. Send your address to rw.trw(at)lvcoxmail.com and my office will mail them to you today or tomorrow. And dont forget to call me so I can walk you through the install.

Robb...702-429-7291
 
Oh....I did warn you about clean up on you!:)...just take ordinary hair conditioner and rub it all over your skin, hair and wherever else it landed, two coats and ten minutes later, jump in a hot shower....Done....dont worry its not toxic at all so you wont grow any weird things on your body:eek:

Robb
 
Everything is lining up well for the next task

rwshooter said:
Hey Bob....Looks like your coming along just fine....If you applied your Gaurdz correctly, all the torn face paper of the drywall and any remaining loose paint or primer should be locked down like it was new. You will have no issues with paint compatibility as Gaurdz will accept any material when dry. Did you have any bubbles when applying your paint coats??....If so I will mail you something to fix it easily along with the proper squeegee you'll need for the installation. You can get a seam buster from Advance Equipment....800-621-4516....cheap and you will need it...get a pack of blades for it also as you will use this little gem for other things down the road. Send your address to rw.trw(at)lvcoxmail.com and my office will mail them to you today or tomorrow. And dont forget to call me so I can walk you through the install.

Robb...702-429-7291
Click to expand...
I did have a couple of area delaminations that showed up as I was applying the first coat of Guardz but I scraped them off and applied the Guardz - no problems that I know of. I ordered the Seam Buster from www.paintstoreonline.com as the lady at Advance Equipment advised. I emailed my address.

Bob Axsom
 
White fibre back insulation?

Is there any reason and would there be any cost benefit to use the White Fibre Backed insulation that is used on the large commercial metal hangers?

No dry walling, no mudding, no taping and no painting.

It would be quicker and maybe cheaper than what we are doing now.

Tim
 
Sounds like it must be a valid way to go Tim

Sounds like it must be a valid way to go Tim. In my case the drywall was already there but maybe someone here has experience with that approach.

Bob Axsom
 
Fedex delivered this morning

rwshooter said:
you'll have your care package tomorrow....time to get excited about the finished mural!!

Robb
Click to expand...

What a surprise! The package was delivered by Fedex this morning. Still no photo. I thought I would follow up Monday but I know Bill is trying to make it the best it can be. I have mixed emotions but it might be helpful if I tip the balance ... No I'll hold off.

Bob Axsom
 
Hi Bob....Glad you got it....While you wait for your mural, you have a little more prep to do to get you as perfect as can be with your situation....determine your mural perimeter both vertical and horizontal....working with in that area only so your not wasting time. shut the lights off and crack your hangar door (man door only) open enough to create shadows down the wall....it will probably scare the **** out of you what will appear. Fix bubbles first and low spots second....take the needle I sent you and fill it with gaurdz. inject all bubbles from the top and massage it in with your fingers. Dont be shy get it wet inside.. after about 5 minutes you can ooze out the excess, if any and flatten it out with your drywall knife... once dry it will never come back. once all the bubbles have been addressed....hit your low spots with the all purpose mud.....let dry and sand lightly....wipe down the whole area with a wet sponge to remove dust and spot prime the new mud with gaurdz.... This should only take you about 2 hours total and is just a back up since youve never done this before....it will be worth it!....Now you'll be ready to install your pretty mural.....let me know when you get it or call me if you need help on your final prep.

Robb

Robb
 
No Bubbles but...

I think the wall is flat enough for the photograph/mural but there are a lot of little particles in the paint surface. The come off with fingernail fairly easy. I don't dare sand any more - I think Frank has his hangar and airplane back to spotless by now... I've heard him working on it over there. I have a good quality ~4" metal putty knife and I'm thinking I will knock off these little soft particles (embedded dust?) and call it ready. They are small and the adhesive backed photo paper would probably go over them OK but it's not going to be that big a job to knock them off.

I will check in with the guy that is making the prints for me Monday. When I have them in hand I'll check in for some guidance.

Bob Axsom
 
3-19-12 update

Went by the sign store and review the computer layout for onr print. Looks good. The other one is not done yet. This is their first time doing something like this so this is a slow go job.

Bob Axsom
 
Hi Bob....Glad the mural is coming along....Yes you can knock down the "goobers" as we call them with your blade....just go easy so you dont gouge up the wall.....just remember....flatter the better.....How soon do you think they will be done?

Robb
 
I would guess they will be done in a couple of weeks

rwshooter said:
Hi Bob....Glad the mural is coming along....Yes you can knock down the "goobers" as we call them with your blade....just go easy so you dont gouge up the wall.....just remember....flatter the better.....How soon do you think they will be done?

Robb
Click to expand...

I would guess they will be done in a couple of weeks but they are really concerned that they could mess this up if thay are not very careful. Bill said he was ready to print the one thay have done Friday but the way it was layed out one seam location was not acceptable. They re-did that and that is what he showed me on the computer today. They have to do the other one entirely still. I am developing a good relation with them and I think we are going to have a good handoff when they are ready. I have a lot of stuff going on with preparing a submittal for research to the American Cancer Society and modifying the cooling air onlet on our RV-6A (hopefully before the first SARL race on 3/31/12).

Bob Axsom
 
The first one is ready for pickup

I am in the middle of a mod to the plane for a race at Sherman, Texas Saturday so I am just going to pick it up and hold it for a week before proceeding with applying it to the wall. It ended uo 12'x15'.

Bob Axsom
 
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Ready to start hanging

I picked up the first photo last week but had to complete a mod on the airplane, fly in the race at Sherman, Texas and do my income taxes. That is all done now. Last night around midnight I finished making a pull strip down the center of all 4, 12 foot panels then rolling them back up. The seam breaker Rob recommended worked great. The first panel was a little ragged but by the end of the 4th panel I had that "Craftsman" feeling. Today is the big and difficult day at the end of preparation where I have climb the extension ladded and do the deed. The risks of falling, ruining this $835 photograph or hanging it poorly are well recognized.

Bob Axsom
 
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Done

IMG_5614.jpg


Got it done at 04:21 this morning CDT. With Rob's telephone help I got it done. The quality is pretty bad but I have what I wanted.

Bob Axsom
 
Great job Bob. Jeanine will always be waiting for your return from the races. Better make sure you have some good results to tell her about! :)
 
Wow, larger than life.

While you think the quality is lacking, it's the thought that counts. Besides it looks good from this angle. ;)
 
Bob,
What a wonderful tribute you have accomplished. She will always be waiting for your return. Enjoy.
 
I think it looks great, Bob! Very classy picture of a very classy lady! I could easily see that picture as aircraft nose art as well. $835 is a small price to pay for the priceless amount of memories that photo will bring!
 
Bob, looks mighty good. Looks worth the trouble and expense.

Thanks for sharing it with us.

Dave
P.S. Be careful if it can fade in direct sunlight....
 
The Bad Quality is Mine - the application

I realized out at the hangar last night working on my cooling air outlet mod that my statement about the quality being pretty bad could be misinterpreted to mean the picture quality. Nothing could be further from the truth. Bill and the lady that worked with the image that I scanned from a 4"x6" photograph did a masterful job. The first intermediate image small segment blown up to full size for what would become a 15' wide mural was blotchy but acceptable. What they finally gave me to work with was amazingly better.

The bad quality was mine in the hanging of the strips. Bedford Sign/Camera in Fayetteville, Arkansas did a wonderful job of making the desire a reality.

Bob Axsom
 
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