What's new
Van's Air Force

Don't miss anything! Register now for full access to the definitive RV support community.

Heads Up - PS Engineering PAR100EX Music Input Issue

CharlieWaffles

CharlieWaffles

Well Known Member
This appears to be undocumented and perhaps known by professional installers, but this issue caught me by surprise.

I had previously found that the music #1 and music #2 inputs were not working as I had expected. There is nothing in the manual to this effect, but music #1 is available only to the crew and music #2 is available only to the passengers. This is not as I expected and there is NOTHING in the manual to this effect either. I also found there was no volume control for music #2 either. I was rather disappointed. I had wired XM radio to music #1 and the ipod music input to music #2. Luckily I saw I could wire pin J2-22 to ground to enable music #1 to all occupants. So I wired this up and verified that XM radio was audible to all occupants. I also found that if I connected the ipod with Bluetooth rather than the audio cable, it comes across the same Music #1 input as the XM radio. This enable me to be able to send the ipod to all occupants and control the volume. So at this point volume #2 is unusable to me and would only be a benefit if I needed something uncontrollable sent to the rear passengers.

I also found that PS-Engineering was a bit unlike the other vendors I have bought from in the experimental space. While they were willing to answer some very basic questions, as soon as it came to asking about the issue with possible wiring issue with the GTN they quoted their warranty stance with making your own harness and that dealers had to be consulted. Unfortunately this was not the great customer service many of the other experimental manufactures are providing. I'm sure they have had their fair share of excessive support requests, it just comes across as unfriendly.
 
I previously had a PS 8000 panel, and its manual was very complete, so this is disappointing news.
As to do it yourself wiring: audio panels are relatively inexpensive. If you take an hour of time with a service engineer you just cost the company 10% of the total price. Plus, wiring mistakes can damage the unit. I know Mark, the president of PS, has previously said that it just was not economically feasible to deal with customer wiring mistakes.
As to volume controls: I wanted my right seat wife to be able to independently adjust the volumes of music, radio, and intercom, while I could do the same in the left seat. No commercial audio panel that I know of would do that, which is why I built my own.
 
Audio 2 PAR100EX

Waffles (Mark).....During my installation (non-warranty), I deduced what you found there, that the PAR100EX Audio 2 is set up so that the kids, or moose hunters, in the back seat can listen to their own tunes and not annoy you by inputting their stuff into Audio 2.

It also is apparent from reading the PS install/ops paperwork that additional optional switching is required if you choose that option. I assume these may be ordered from PS but did not find a part number for that switch assembly.

Your post will serve to notify anyone else bold enough to do a non-warranty installation of this PS product regarding how Audio 2 is designed. Thank you.

I did receive adequate support, but not a lot of love, from PS, and Stein (more love from Stein) when I got scratching my head a few times. The only surprise with my PAR100EX was that the radio squelch and volume were both factory set to high (catterwaller) and when I first turned it on, it was so loud and so noisy I almost had a heart attack. As you know, it takes a long momentary button push once you figure out how to call up those menus for adjusting, during which time it was logical to assume that my homebuilt harness had fried the radio. What a relief. All is well.

Good luck with the install.

Mike Bauer
RV6 N918MB
 
My PAR100 shows up this week. It's disappointing to read this today. I'll admit I haven't dug into their manual yet, as I'm busy with the Garmin interconnects at present but if the manual is weak, they are causing their own problems with customer call ins. When you sell to experimental guys, you have to expect that they are building their own. It's pretty much the definition of experimental. A solid, all inclusive manual certainly helps. Between Garmins manuals and Steins wiring diagram, I'm not struggling....yet.
 
To be fair, the rest of the manual is thorough and complete, it just appears for some reason they did not provide much information on how these audio inputs worked.
 
I also just received a note from Mark at PS Engineering that they are working to update their manual with more information on how the audio inputs work. I also asked for details on the Bluetooth operation as well.
 
Ran into this one myself

CharlieWaffles said:
I also found that PS-Engineering was a bit unlike the other vendors I have bought from in the experimental space. While they were willing to answer some very basic questions, as soon as it came to asking about the issue with possible wiring issue with the GTN they quoted their warranty stance with making your own harness and that dealers had to be consulted. Unfortunately this was not the great customer service many of the other experimental manufactures are providing. I'm sure they have had their fair share of excessive support requests, it just comes across as unfriendly.
Click to expand...

From what I understand it is a quality product but I for one rejected purchasing one after being quoted their warranty policies
 
This is a tough call. I would be very upset if I had a failure which was not my fault and was not covered under warrantee. OTOH, the OP has posted that he did in fact have some wiring errors. What if they had destroyed the box? Should PS pay? Worse, how could they tell if it was a wiring error or a manufacturing error? They might fix it, send it back, have it destroyed again. I respect that this is a business decision. You can have Stein fab a harness for you, or shop elsewhere. Your choice.
Music 2: As someone else posted, most people put a jack in the back for music 2, so the kids can plug in an iPod. Then they can control the volume themselves, directly from the iPod. Having a panel mounted volume control for the rear seats is awkward at best. Many people run the music 2 lines thru a DPDT switch, so they can select the source to be either the same as music 1, or the aft jack. Or you accomplish the same thing by running the "ground to send music 1 to all seats" wire to a panel switch.
BTW, I suggest you ground the control pin which will force music 2 into kereoke (sp?) mode. Back seat passengers usually don't like having the music go off every time there is an incoming radio signal.
 
my PAR100EX works great with both wired music and BT music, my only complaint is that BT music is quite a bit low in volume, despite turning the device and PAR all the way up
 
bkthomps said:
my PAR100EX works great with both wired music and BT music, my only complaint is that BT music is quite a bit low in volume, despite turning the device and PAR all the way up
Click to expand...

Are they aware of this issue and do they have a plan to address it?
 
ColoRv said:
Are they aware of this issue and do they have a plan to address it?
Click to expand...

no, I figure it is not something easily resolved, I am able to boost the volume of the wired input because my XM satellite radio has it's own internal gain/volume control that I can "overboost" to make it louder

the BT, I do not have that function, I will ask them I suppose
 
I haven't noticed the BT to be too quiet, but it is definitely a lower volume than the other wired inputs. But it is still very audible.
 
Just an update. I have given some feedback to Mark at PS Engineering and they are in the final stages of wrapping up an update to the manual that will be published to their website shortly. This version will make it clear how the two different music inputs work.
 
I wanted to follow up and say that once I pointed out the discrepancy of information in the manual that PS Engineering really stepped up to the plate and got their documentation updated and worked to make sure all the items I pointed out to them were taken care of.

I was quite pleased to see them so responsive and once again affirmed why I chose their product - they have a great reputation. Could they make improvements to the product? Sure, but that's not what this is about.

If you are considering PS Engineering or the PAR100EX and it meets your needs, I say go for it.
 
Thanks "Mark".............

For posting about the response from the company regarding your concerns. I am not quite to the point of serious avionics decisions, but I am already spinning a lot of that around in my head as I watch fellow builders wiring up there soon-to-fly projects.

I have had some experience in other aircraft with PS engineering audio panels, and after hearing continual praise about them from other builders/flyers I will probably also go with them when the time comes. So this information is vital to me, even though I may not get around to referring back to it for a good long while yet.

Who would have thought that I would have to spend quality time deciding which equipment provides the best capability to determine which choice of music or electronic device audio gets routed to what seat at whatever time they choose. Sure is a far cry from just properly connecting the a/c radio wires to the right button.

When I attended my electrical Sport Air Class one of the projects was to properly wire up the headphone and mic jacks for a PS Engineering intercom. It made me a bit nervous when the instructor stressed that we needed to make sure we got the pin assignments exactly right on the connector, or else we would fry the intercom. Fortunately mine worked as expected when it was plugged into the unit, so I guess that is a good start at least.

Thanks for all your diligence in forcing a positive change for the rest of us that have yet to travel down that path.
 
Last edited:
PAR100EX Follow up

I just came up with this thread and wanted to find out how all of this has settled out? Thanks to the OP, we have address the short coming in our manual regarding music.

And we now are shipping the PAR100EX so the radio volume is at mid-level, never really considered having it at full gain and what the consequences would be if the pilot was wearing the headset during initial power on! Sorry about that!

From what we hear at the factory, our customers like the unit very much. It was good to be at Sun N Fun and see that some OEMs are now using it, such as the new LSA Searay and the Experimental Twin Velocity.

But the primary target aircraft has and continues to be Van's Aircraft and would appreciate any and all feedback. While there are always compromises when engineering a design, we want to optimize everything that we can.

Thank you,
Mark Scheuer
PS Engineering
 
Mark, et all, all of my original issues have been addressed. While I think there could be some future tweaks to allow for better control of the input sources and volume levels, there is nothing else that can be done with the unit as is. The manual has been updated to properly reflect the issues I raised and will make it easier for those in the future planning their panel implementation.

Your support and quick turn around is one of just many reasons I went with your products. Thanks again and I have no hesitancy in recommending your unit to other builders. Often many builders don't even know they can eliminate one more box in the panel by using this cool intercom/radio in one.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top