C

Cement85

Member
I am a VFR pilot that got my IFR ticket in 1992 and have done nothing with it since, 75% of my time has been in a Luscubme 8a, no electric, hand prop, most of the time no radio.

About to finish an RV4, to talked into Grt 200sport, I cannot see spending an extra $900 and $40 a month for XM weather. Is it really worth it? I don't plan on doing any IFR in this airplane, I understand the 4 is a lousy platform for it anyway.

Thinking outside the box, xm does offer $9 a month for fishermen, if all I want to do is stay away from the big bad stuff, will this suffice?

Just wandering what everyone else who is on a budget was doing.

I will probably hold out for the ADS-B weather system.
 
Last edited:
XM WX is for VFR Also!

It's one of the greatest aviation tools ever invented.Allows you to fly much more safely and with greater confidence.
 
If you're flying locally, probably no need for it. If you're going cross-country, it'll come in handy for sure. Whether it's a necessity is another matter and I'd have to say probably not.

Dave
 
A few conviences of XM weather...

TFR's that you might have missed

Altimeter setting updates

Knowing --ATIS, AWOS at the destination, much sooner than with the comm.

Continous weather updates while in route. Can make a real difference in mountain country.

Winds........depending on subscription

L.Adamson
 
As mentioned above, in my mind it is not a question of IFR versus VFR, it is a question of local versus cross-country. In all my years of flying, I can honestly say that the thing that has created the most worry is the question "I wonder what the weather is doing up ahead?" You usually want to know this the most when the visibility is bad (and getting worse). XM is WAY more than radar - in fact, I spend much more time with the METARS and watching the TAF's.

I have serious IFR capability in my airplanes, yet I don't really file that often - I am more likely to enjoy the freedom that VFR gives if it is possible to go that way. XM weather allows me to go that way by giving me the information I need to make an informed decision.

Required? Not at all - we flew that way forever. Really nice to have? Absolutely - and I won't go without it unless I have no choice.

It is probably the single greatest safety enhancement for GA cross-country flying since the invention of the wing IMHO....

Paul
 
Last edited:
I fly mostly cross country and VFR only (I have an instrument rating but have not used it in 10 years!).

XM Weather is the greatest safety device in my airplane. No if ands or buts. Second biggest one is the accurate fuel flow totalizer in my GRT EIS and the third is the MRX traffic alert.

I would hate to fly anywhere other than locally without XM weather.
 
metars

Seeing precipitation and TFR's (or the lack of them)is handy, but the shiznit is being able to check metars all over the place without being in range of any awos/asos. All this is part of the "Aviatior Lite" package.

And while you're dropping the bills for xm-wx, may as well add xmradio! Love it.
 
Cement85 said:
Sounds good so far, what is the least expensive way to get it into my GRT sport
Click to expand...

To fully understand my response about the lest expensive way for you to get weather you need to know that I have a 2 screen GRT HX 8.4" Synthatic Vision plus a S100 for Engine Monitor info in my RV-10, with weather displayed on both HX screens, plus the RV-6A and RV-7 builds will both have the duel GRT HX system as well.

Now to answer you question, I submit that if you are not going to be flying IFR in your RV-4 the best buy for the buck in your situtation is to go buy an Apple ipad with GPS and for $25.00 a month subscription you can have weather all the time plus free flight planning, and can take it to the motel with you to check e-mails and check weather before you head to the airport.

In addition, if you want to pay $80.00 more per year, you can add the ForeFlight App and have real time moving map GPS plus lots more.

You can probably buy a used Apple ipad the first part of April for as low as $400.00 when the new version comes out.
 
"Lite" is good enough

dhall_polo said:
Seeing precipitation and TFR's (or the lack of them)is handy, but the shiznit is being able to check metars all over the place without being in range of any awos/asos. All this is part of the "Aviatior Lite" package.

And while you're dropping the bills for xm-wx, may as well add xmradio! Love it.
Click to expand...

I agree. The "lite" version gives me what I mostly use. XM radio is great, but not a safety issue.
 
dav1111 said:
Now to answer you question, I submit that if you are not going to be flying IFR in your RV-4 the best buy for the buck in your situtation is to go buy an Apple ipad with GPS and for $25.00 a month subscription you can have weather all the time...
Click to expand...

You don't get it in the air which is where I find the most value in XM. It's very nice to launch to a destination that is 3 hours away and be able to keep tabs on the changing weather at your destination the entire time.

Plus, when that nasty green pops up in front of you it's easy to deviate 200nm out to get around it instead of flying up to the front and having to fly along it to find the edge.

XM is great! I just think XM really misses the ball with their pricing. If their prices were more reasonable they would capture so much more of the private pilot market.
 
I am a frugal pilot but I did spring for the XM WX. I agree with the other posts, it is great. I will even use it locally to decide if I should go north or south around an area of rain. But I do hate paying the monthly fee.

I do have the GRT Sport, but decided to use the Garmin 496 for the weather. I did this because the GRT sport only has 4 serial ports, and I had planned to use those for other things like the MAP, PCAS and, 2-GPS (496 and a bionics). (the GRT weather uses port #4 for the WX)

Also I like to check out the METAR?s and TAF?s and still have the attitude and engine data viewable. This could be all done on the GRT but my personal preference is to have one screen for flying and, one for navigating. (But there is some redundancy on both screens)

This all assumes you have a single EFIS. (I have never seen duel GRT?s in a -4, would they even fit?)

This is the way I did it but YMMV. I bought a 496 for just over what the GRT WX box would cost, and now I have some very basic redundancy if one were to go bad. At least that is my thinking.

Hope this helps somewhat.
 
It's All Relative

I just think XM really misses the ball with their pricing. If their prices were more reasonable they would capture so much more of the private pilot market.
__________________
I flew several different T210s thru the 80s and 90s, all radar equipped. For over $15K for each Bendix system, I got marginal performance, but it was better than nothing. No METARS, no 360 degree picture, plus attenuation issues that prevented seeing the "big picture". Ended up eventually moving to a Strikefinder, which I actually liked better than the radar (but still no METARS).
I agree with an earlier post (XM is the greatest), and being able to get METARS as well as NEXRAD makes the system a real winner for IFR as well as VFR. If you fly more than 8-10 hours a month, the price is a bargin. If you're one of those people that only flies for part of the year, you can always cancel your subscription and renew when you restart flying- unlike my prepaid radar units, it's pay as you go. Do I wish it was cheaper? Oh yeah!
Terry, CFI
RV-9A N323TP
 
ADSB, anyone?

I'm a long way from flying. I'm hoping that ADSB coverage is going to be closer to complete before me. :) It has been difficult to get a straight answer from anyone on which sites are actually 'live' at this time.

An ADSB-in weather receiver is already available for around $1200, & will likely be far less by the time I'll need it. The GRT boxes will already display ADSB weather. All the articles I've read say that ADSB weather will be available even without ADSB-out, & it's free. And I'm cheap.

I would, however, like to hear about whether the XM $9/mo marine option would work on an aviation GPS. For VFR flying, just having radar available would be a radical improvement over nothing at all.

Charlie
 
We have XM in our RV and the Mu-2.. It is light years better than what I have at work for avoiding weather..

If I could rig up a Garmin in the cockpit at work, I'd be set.. :)
 
Jamie said:
You don't get it in the air which is where I find the most value in XM. It's very nice to launch to a destination that is 3 hours away and be able to keep tabs on the changing weather at your destination the entire time.

Plus, when that nasty green pops up in front of you it's easy to deviate 200nm out to get around it instead of flying up to the front and having to fly along it to find the edge.

XM is great! I just think XM really misses the ball with their pricing. If their prices were more reasonable they would capture so much more of the private pilot market.
Click to expand...

Thanks Jaime, I was going to follow the iPad comment with a query about airborne weather. If that ever happens it will be awesome!!

For all the reasons Jaime and the others mentioned, XM earns its keep on every X-C. Avoiding the green blobs, finding an airport with better winds, deciding just not to press on towards that line and enjoying the food at the airport cafe as the weather goes by...all things I've done thanks to XM.

At $44.95 for Aviator Lite and Music, though I may not like writing the check, every time I think about cancelling, the next X-C (short or long) makes it all worth it!! I think that combo is a pretty good package (like Louise said), perhaps your best bang for the buck. Bag the music if you have home-brew tunes, but it does add sports and talk, and a bunch more. Good stuff!

I do wish I could talk to someone within 3 time zones of home when I call customer service :rolleyes:...but that's a topic for another thread...and its still a great tool!!

Cheers,
Bob
 
Winds Aloft

Not available in the Aviator Lite version. Not sure it is worth the extra $20 month but I use the feature a great deal. It makes little difference on relatively short trips but if you fly a lot of cross country you could get this back in fuel savings.
To a lesser degree, with all of the mountains and geological features like the Gorge. I have found it useful in predicting mountain wave and turbulant activity. You can predict, to some degree, what altitude you might get rocked at based on the magnitude and direction of the winds aloft, so even on short trips I use it as another data point in my flight planning, which is largely done with Weathermeister and EAA FLight Planner on the ground and my 496 in the air.
On local flights, check Weathermeister on my Iphone before any flight and then have the confidence that my 496 with XM Weather will fill in the rest once I launch. Very convenient.
 
Like some of the others, I'm a VFR only kind of guy.

The XM WX via my 496 makes taking long X-country trips so easy. Zoom out, see a front moving across the country and I can plan my route accordingly. See some snow showers, deviate a few miles and miss it.

Before that, it was simply call, get the WX, go fly and bump into whatever was in my way. Not fun flying.

Here in the south, the summer haze can be such that you can't see a BIG cell until you get rain on the canopy. With the 496 & Wx, I can avoid it to the upwind side by miles. Talk about a major safety improvement.

Like the others, I think they missed the mark on the pricing but will reactivate my subscription when I start taking longer trips after my current Phase 1 test period is complete in a few weeks.
 
XM Weather

If you have not purchased your GRT sport unit yet, you might want to wait till Sun n Fun or Oshkosh. When I bought my HX unit, they were giving away free XM weather module with your purchase. A very good deal if you wanted it.

Allan Stern, RV 6A
RV 8A both flying.
 
Ipad for IFR

I do not have frequent IFR trips that can justify the cost of XM weather and have found that an IPAD G3 meets my needs fully. The ATT monthly cost is $15 and the wireless telephone internet connection for weather can quickly and easily be started/stopped for 30 day increments so that you are not paying for service when you are not using it. In addition, SkychartsPro IFR/VFR chart service is only $15 annually which gives you access to all aviation charts that you carry with you in the IPAD. The aviation charts and updates are downloaded via the internet on an as needed basis. AWOS/ASOS gives in flight radio weather at airports along your planned flight path. This does not give the capability to dodge thunderstorms but I choose not to fly in those weather conditions. (RV7AFLYER)
 
I don't need no stinkin' XM weather

However I see the great benefit from it. I have made trips where having it would have been very useful.

But, I do not have a Garmin X96 so I would have to buy one of those as well. I just can't justify it. I do a proper weather check before long flights and use Flight Service while flying. Unfortunately, the later is not always the best. Trying to visualize what a briefer is telling you versus having a display with cloud cover, radar, VFR/MVFR/IFR icons, etc is night and day difference.
 
Last edited:
XM

The weather in the Garman handheld that I have has saved many many trips that I would not have completed if I did not have weather in the cocpit.
XM weather is the best thing to come along since enclosed cocpits.

I would not go without it given the choice. I have the XM music too.

I haven't used my insrutment rating in years. The XM weather lets me stay VFR, and fly on.

If you don't go any where you do not need XM weather.

You can look in to your airabatic box next to your airfield, if that is all you do.,
 
Last edited:
A practical example....

Coming back from Osh with a flight of four. We left Aberdeen SD with a relatively mild front in our path, crescent shaped, stretching from Canada through parts of N. and S. Dakota and into Montana.
We flight planned to pass over Billings to our fuel stop at Three forks. We would stay south of the front. Billings was forecast to be clear until we passed.
After our launch, watching WX we noticed the front progressing much more rapidly than predicted and calculated that we would not make it past Billings before the weather. We could not outrun it to the South nor could we to the North as it was just too long of a system. We where sitting below the front smack dab in the middle of it as it tracked our way.
The front had stretched out a bit and although quite long, several hundred miles, was not very wide, maybe 20 miles, and only showed light to mild rain. With the WX we had the confidence that we could penetrate it to the NW, come in behind it and targeted Miles City as our divert. It worked perfectly.
The appearance of the front was much scarier than it actually was. The morning sun shining on the wall of the front made it look pretty ominous. In an area with very few airports, lots of tall towers, and harsh terrain below, I doubt we would have done it without being able to "see" the other side. We most likely would have diverted south, landed, and waited for it to pass. The front ended up stalling, so the wait would have been the rest of the day.
WX paid for itself for the year on that one event. We made it home that day.
 
The cost for the XM service is the same regardless of platform.

The hardware cost is a different matter, depending on which brand you go with. Plus with some units, the XM receiver is built in wheresas with others it's an external module that is purchased seperately.
 
May be a knuckle headed Idea

Please understand, I may do 4 cross countries a year, my primary purpose in this airplane is to compress my spine and scare the **** out of my 8 year old son!

While researching XM weather I came across this forum thread on jet careers.com

http://forums.jetcareers.com/general-topics/111038-xm-weather-cockpit.html

They talk about using the maritime GPS in the cockpit which provides basically the same information minus Metars (which I still hate reading) and using a 478 garmin GPS.

I can get a new maritime GPSmap series 421 for $364 with $10 a month skywatch. The cheapest I could find the aviation XM option was $950 from GRT with a $35 monthly aviator lt. I would have a second GPS for gen reference and weather I can set by my bed at night.

If all that I am trying to do is avoid the big green blob, this might get it done.

Interested to hear what you all think.
 
cement, I do not believe that precip alone is adequate. I want cloud cover and METAR info also to know whether I can fly VFR.

With a radar chart and the aviationweather.gov satellite map with VFR/MVFR/IFR circles I can make a good assessment of my options.
 
I can empathize with the folks who say they can't justify the cost of XM weather. When sitting at the computer it's easy to justify that I'll be extra careful on weather I fly in and avoid the extra cost. Unfortunately, there is a large philosophical change in the cockpit when weather isn't at forecast and you're flying with your family, unsure of weather in your flight path.
Let face up to the fact that it's a great tool. Unfortunately, it is way overpriced for the few minutes of useful weather the average subscriber gets out of it each month. XM has a monopoly on the service and a poorly trained group in customer service when it comes to their weather products. The company that comes out with a cheap, portable ADSB receiver is going to make a killing. Inevitably XM will lose their shirt in this market and deservedly so.
 
Flybuddy2 said:
Unfortunately, it is way overpriced for the few minutes of useful weather the average subscriber gets out of it each month. XM has a monopoly on the service and a poorly trained group in customer service when it comes to their weather products. The company that comes out with a cheap, portable ADSB receiver is going to make a killing. Inevitably XM will lose their shirt in this market and deservedly so.
Click to expand...

The way I understand it, satellite radio hasn't been too profitable to the companies as it is. If you only get a few minutes worth a month...........then by all means.........don't use it!

L.Adamson --- RV6A
 
I hate the cost also but... without it (like some others have stated) I have been able to avoid weather and complete a trip, without it I most likely would have landed and overnighted somewhere.

Knowing the weather all around your location and at your destination increases the safety factor sufficiently to convince me its worth it.
 
XM WEATHER-SWEET

the lite aviator package works perfectly when flying cross country, all the information right at your finger tips. I wouldn't be with out it. btw...this subscription is cool cause if you are not using it..say during the winter months..then u can suspend until u need it with no additional charge when u re-activate. Plus as most agree here enhanced level of safety, one of the best things available as a cockpit resource. Also, the fee is affordable/reasonably priced ... works for me. check it out, fly with someone who has it and play around with it you'll be hooked...good luck.
 
L.Adamson said:
The way I understand it, satellite radio hasn't been too profitable to the companies as it is. If you only get a few minutes worth a month...........then by all means.........don't use it!

L.Adamson --- RV6A
Click to expand...

I think their profitability issues stem more from giving idiotic contracts out like 40 mil to Imus and overextending themselves to buy out their only competition. My statement was AVERAGE flyer/subscriber. Out of the few hours the average pilot flies per month how much of that is XM really making a difference. The usefulness (true need) for many can be measured in minutes.
 
Ok Ok Im sold

Since I can turn on and off the subscription, what is the least expensive, reliable receiver.

$950 is the cheapest I found.
 
Be carefull....they charge a setup fee of $75 when you activate for the first time. Not sure if they would slam you with that again if you cancel and then restart the service......
 
Brantel said:
Be carefull....they charge a setup fee of $75 when you activate for the first time. Not sure if they would slam you with that again if you cancel and then restart the service......
Click to expand...

Correct: the startup fee is $75 and then $55/month for the aviator package. For the 2 or 3 coast to coast trips I make every year, I suck it up and pay the $75 and $55 which adds $130 to the total cost of the trip (after flying coast to coast and back, $130 is in the "noise"). I then cancel the subscription and do the same again for the next trip.

There is an option to turn XM WX off for a limited time period and restart without paying the $75 startup fee (but my trips are too spread out to do this). I can not justify paying $55/month living in the Mojave desert where I do most all my flying (WX is VFR 360+ days per year). If I lived back east, I'd pay for it year round: It's worth it! :D Rosie
 
part of my risk management costs...

XM weather on the 696 is simply outstanding for cross country flights especially where the reach of an RV can offer opportunities for spontaneous in flight plan changes for 'on-the fly' flight planning. Cost is part of my overall risk management for plan and is likely one of the most effective real value 'insurance' components when departing the local area for points unknown...
 
You must log in or register to reply here.