RudiGreyling

Well Known Member
Hi Guys,

My manuel tells me now to make wooden gear leg stiffeners...The Manual says some planes needs them and some don't...Hmmm...:confused:

Is it worth it? Have you done it before your first flight? Have you had issues without it? Have you retro fitted them afterwards?

The reason I ask, is that I don't want to add work, complexity and weight for something I might not need!

And if you have done it how did you route the brake lines around the stiffeners? It looks like it interferes with the brake line?
gear_leg_stiffeners.gif


Thank you in advance,
Kind Regards
Rudi
 
No

Hi Rudy,
When we got to that point, I asked an A@P friend who's built six RVs and finished a dozen more about the stiffeners. He said don't put them on unless it shimmies and shakes. We didn't and the mains are fine. I have more problems with the nosewheel shaking up and down.
Regards,
 
Wood Gear Stiffeners

I flew my 6A for a few months without the stiffeners. On more than one occasion, I had someone follow me to my hangar and tell me how bad my main gear was chattering when I applied the brakes to exit the runway. I didn't feel anything unusual but later, a video of a landing rollout showed me what they were talking about.
The stiffeners are available right here on vansairforce.net (go to the advertisers link). :)
Also, the chattering from the nose gear can be cured, too. Dan Urbanski, are you out there? Dan stiffened up his 6A's nose gear in the same manner as the mains. If he doesn't respond to your post, I can get his email for you if you're interested in doing the nose gear, too.
 
I wouldn't bother, Rudi. After operating two -7s, I find leg shimmy to be affected by gross weight, speed, tire pressure - all variables - if it's going to show up at all. Adding stiffeners, simplistically speaking, simply shifts the natural frequency, without adding dampening. The legs will vibrate under a different mix of excitations. I've seen no reports that adding leg stiffeners is a panacea. They also make brake line installation much more difficult.

John Siebold
Boise, ID
 
Vote for yes on the stiffeners!

Recently, I saw the most convincing argument yet for installing the stiffeners. A friend was unfortunate enough to be involved in an off runway excursion due to brake dragging problems (another story!). One gear leg was severely bent, but did remain upright enough to support the plane and keep the wing off the ground. I believe had it not been for the the extra support the stiffeners provided, the gear leg may have completely folded under, causing the plane to recieve much more damage than it did. Stiffeners on the mains don't really add much wieght, aren't that hard to install, and can only help in most situations.
IMHO!
 
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I had a lot of shimmy on my mains before adding the stiffeners. If temps are in the 30's, I still get a small amount of shimmy at times after installation. However, the improvement in warm temps is dramatic and well worth the cost/effort.
 
Use sch 40 PVC

Instead of the wood stiffners, I used 1/2 inch sch 40 (thick) PVC pipe on my RV-6. About a third of the pipe is cut off (makes a "c" shape) in a bandsaw.
I used 3M strapping tape wrapped along the entire length of the PVC (mounted to the back of the gear leg). The brake line is inside the PVC. Adds a little dampning. Going to do the same on my 8A.

Tom
 
search of threads

http://www.vansairforce.com/community/showthread.php?t=7096&highlight=gear+wood

http://www.vansairforce.com/community/showthread.php?t=4505&highlight=dampener+gear

http://www.vansairforce.com/community/showthread.php?t=909&highlight=gear+wood

http://www.vansairforce.com/community/showthread.php?t=9677&highlight=dampener+gear

Here is some more info. I flew with out and with on my RV-4. It definitely made the taxi feel more solid and could taxi faster without shimmy. Was it bad before? No, not really. So is it needed? Yes and No. You can always start with no gear leg stiffener (save build cost, time and weight) and add later if you decide you do need it. Your main's (tires/wheel pants) will move around more without the stiffeners. Go to an airshow and watch RV's taxi and with and without stiffeners. You only really feel it if you get going and the tire shimmies.

Does it make landing easier? I don't think so. Does it feel more solid? Yes. If you use a solid piece of wood, attached well along the whole length, it lends itself to a more solid taxi feel. No doubt in my mind. My new project I am going without again. If I need it, I'll add it later. Its a pain in the back to make and install. It also makes the gear leg fairing a little thicker since you have to wrap a few plies of glass around the gear leg. (I suggest S-glass tape or carbon cloth.)

If you fly a real big airport with LONG distance wide open taxi's, than you may want to go with the stiffiner. I find at high speed taxi with out, you will likely shimmy at some point no matter how well tire pressure is adjusted. If you taxi slow than forget it. Also if you want to finish your plane, paint it and not work on it again, go ahead and consider doing it now.
 
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Rudi,

The instructions included with my 6A's builders manual says that the shimmy phenomena is a "rather nebulous thing." Some airplanes experience it, other's don't. Now I have this theory......but it is only a theory that may account for shimmy problems in some airplanes. Many moons ago, the older kits required the builder to make measurements and gear leg adjustments accounting for toe-in before the builder himself drilled out the gear legs through the weldments. Given the large amount of steel that had to be drilled through, it is easy to imagine that some builders could be more precise than others. It doesn't take much error when drilling such holes to end up having a shimmy problem aggravated by a slight toe-in misalignment or other differences between one gear leg and the other. My kit was produced in 2000 and had the gear legs and weldments already drilled out so it took that potential builder error off the table. Anyway...that is my theory. My view at the time was to leave the wooden stiffeners off and only install them if shimmy proved to be a problem which to date, happily has not been.
 
Anyone for some grass?

Rudi,
Shimmy is a harmonic vibration and as John L'RV7ator said, there are many variable which determine whether shimmy will occur or not.
One of the most dominant variables is GRASS or SEALED surface.

I have never seem shimmy.
I think the variable excluding shimmy in my case is "rarity of Sealed Runways in Australia".

This is not to be confused with the frightening dancing the gear does when taxiing on rough strips. This is NOT shimmy. In this case wooden dampers will do very little.

Pete.
PS. A demonstration of l'RVators point of 'tuning' for a shimmy, can be seen if you get shimmy on a Cessbucket nosewheel. Pulling the stick back or pushing forward will alter the load on the nosewheel and the shimmy ceases.
P
 
I have dealt with an intermittant shimmey problem from early on with my airplane. After 6 years of checking to make sure things were tight, balancing wheel pants (I did that before the first flight), adjusting tire pressure, etc. I have concluded that my airplane's shimmey is caused by out of balance and/or out of round tires.

Would gear leg stiffeners help? Dunno. But I can tell you that, at least on my airplane, a round, balanced set of tires is the key factor.

One thing that helps, when the airplane has been sitting for a few days and has flat spotted tires, is to pull the airplane forward 6" or so before doing the preflight. That allows a few extra minutes for the flat spots on the bottom of the tires to relax.
 
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Cold WX

Kyle,
That fits with the previous comment on cold weather effecting the likelyhood of shimmy; although the previous author seem to attribute it to the temp of the steel u/c. Your explanation sounds more likely to me.

You see much lower temps in North America than we do in Aus. which might - besides the grass- also explain why I have not seen shimmy on "Riveting Experience".

Also in relation to your comments on tyres, if you do not 'soap' an auto rim whilst fitting the tyre, the tyre can become twisted on the rim; with one sidewall rotated relative to the other.
Whilst the fitting is unlikely to do this on a split rim, it may be worth look see.
Pete
 
Well it depends on where and you taxi

Rick6a said:
Rudi,

The instructions included with my 6A's builders manual says that the shimmy phenomena is a "rather nebulous thing." Some airplanes experience it, other's don't. Now I have this theory......but it is only a theory that may account for shimmy problems in some airplanes.
Rudi I agree NOT every gear will shimmy, but I think it's more complicated. It has to do with everything, tire temp/pressure/alignment, taxi surface and the natural frequency of the spring (gear leg). Its the interaction of the tire, surface it is rolling on and the basic RV gear desgin that makes the wiggle. On some surfaces, at the right speed, you will shimmy almost any gear leg.

Engineers have all the math to describe what is happening. It does not mean Van did a bad job. There is always a compromise between other design goals (low weight, drag, cost) and making the gear Heck for Stout.

With a tapered steel rod with a tire cantilevered of the end at odd angles, the gear will bend and twist. Once it moves it "springs back". If the speed and surface are producing the right kind of resistance at the gears natural frequency you will get the shimmy.

The focus on the tire being balanced is right on. That is job #1. Any thing that is a "forcing function" or produces vibratory excitation of the spring gear will aggravate a gear leg/wheel shimmy.

It also depends on how you operate (taxi speed) and where you operated (surface, temp?).

I think temp has to do more with the damping and friction of the tire than the affect on steel. The rubber in the tire when cold or hot changes.

A surface like asphalt can change with temp. I remember sitting in the line-up at Laguardia in the summer and just sinking into the asphalt. To get moving again I needed LOTS of power to get out of the hole the 737 made sitting too long in one spot. B737 may weigh less than 150k-lbs, but they only have two wheel mains, unlike other planes with 4 or more wheel mains. You could see all the dimples in the ground where planes where stopped. Same at a little airport, the taxi or runway surface waves and dips vary with temp but may be too small to see but affects you flexible RV gear. I notice it in my car or motorcycles different rain groves in the road interact with my particular tread pattern differently.


Tire alignment as someone mentioned this adding to the issue of gear shimmy. Toe in/out is no doubt is part of it. We have ZERO adjustment unless once installed, unless you permanently bend/twist the gear past the elastic region. Once you drill (old days) or locate the firewall and engine mount (or gear towers RV-8 and RV-A's) your gear geometry is set. If one tire is trying to track straight and the other wants to wonder outboard, it will make a series of little swerves as it tracks out and than springs back. Given the right speed and surface that gear leg will vibrate and the vibrations can get larger and larger if exited near natural frequency of the WHOLE SYSTEM. The "system" is the tire ground interface, tire, axle, gear fairing and steel gear leg it self. They all work together and the interaction is complicated.

If you want to lower your chance you "dampen" the gear leg so even if exited it's deflections are smaller or they dampen out. A wood stiffener may also increase its small deflection stiffness which changes it's natural frequency, but I think the main purpose is dampener of shock absorber for the gears bending and twisting. It will still bend and twist but it will not spring back as far.

Shimmy is not too hazardous. It does put wear and tear on the brake lines and wheel fairing.

With that said, I don't think the plans made stiffeners will make you 100% immune to shimmy either. If the conditions are right, like very high speed taxi on a semi-rough surface, tire pressure/temp/alignment are right, you will shimmy. When I say rough, I mean it could be small surface irregularities that are just at the right size and shape to excite the gear wiggle. Even a smooth surface may produce a shimmy if the tire pressure/balance/alignment is not correct (I think).

Therefore go with out and install later if needed is my advice. Look it is the nature of the beast. Long tapered steel rods at angles with a cantilever wheels will always act up time to time. In the Pro column the gear is light, low drag, cost effective, easy to build and works well overall. In fact its nature to take abuse and protect the main airframe his a good thing for some pilots who have dropped their bird in.
 
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WOW guys :D thanks for all the replies. It looks like the best is to add it later if it shows up. On with the Build!

Kind Regards
Rudi