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prkaye

Well Known Member
I'm looking for advice on how far to go with my wings, before putting them aside and moving on to the fuselage. First, a bit about my building situation:

- I'm building in a confined space, so would really like to hang the wings on the shop wall (out of the way) while I build the fuse. They will only fit if the flaps and ailerons are not attached. So I thought of installing the brackets, bellcranks, pushrods etc, but leaving the ailerons and flaps off the wings (build them and put them away in the house).

With this approach, I wouldn't use the wing cradle. Is the cradle meant for anything other than transportation and storage? I *could* build the crade, and just push it against the wall, but this would use more shop floor space. Of course then I wouldn't have to worry about hoisting a wing high up onto a wall for storage... hmmm.

- Because of Canadian inspection regs I can't rivet the bottom skins on until after a pre-cover inspection, so I thought I'd hang the wings on the wall with the top skins rivetted, but the bottom skins just clecoed in-place.

Does this seem like a reasonable approach?
What have others done?

p.s. for those that were following the thread about fuel tank testing, my tank appears to be holding pressure (day 3 now). Amazed at how much that manometer level varies each day... more than 6 inches! Usually the manometer indicates lower relative tank pressure in the morning, and higher in the evening.
 
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I can't help you with hanging wings on the wall -- sounds a bit risky to me since they are heavy. It'll take some careful engineering on your part.

Bottom wing skins can be done anytime. The riveting is fairly difficult though, so I wouldn't wait so long that your riveting skills have gotten rusty. I did mine post-fuselage.

No need to hang the flaps/ailerons until the wings are attached to the fuselage. Final setting of the aileron travel stops is best done after the wings are on the fuselage.

Wing tip installation is best done when you have the ailerons attached and set in the neutral position. This can be done now or later, but you will be spending a lot of time with aileron alignment later, so you can easily wait.

It does make some sense to do all fiberglass at once. You can keep your fiberglass skills sharp, and limit the amount of time your shop is covered in glass dust.

I think 3 days is more than enough for tank pressure-testing...mine were starting to leak down after a day, despite barometric fluctuations (probably due to leaks in the manometer connection) and no leaks now that I've got real fuel in there.

Paul
 
Wings on wall

Hi Phil,

I'm just down the road from you (well, not too far). I used to fly (rental) into Ottawa from time to time when I lived in Montreal to visit the museum. Editorial note... anyone with easy flying distance to Ottawa really should go see the Canadian Aviation Museum http://www.aviation.technomuses.ca/ . It doesn't rank with the likes of the Udvar Hazy, but it is good and you can land, taxi to the museum, radio the flying club and they'll call museum staff to let you in the back door.

I have QB wings hanging on my wall. I nailed a 2X4 along the top of the wall into the studs. That gave me options to attach all along the length of the wall, rather than just where I could find studs under the drywall. I then created loops of thick poly rope (the kind often used as halter leads, to those who have been around horses), and further put foam pipe insulation tubing around the bottoms of these loops (my biggest fear was creating a crease in the leading edge from the rope). I've seen others that used old section of fire hose as a strap, but I didn't have access to any. I then screwed some skookum eye hooks into the 2X4 and put carabiners on the eye hooks. Just loop the loops around the wing, lift, and slip the rope loop into the carabiners. It is not coming down. Bigger risk is running something into the wing while it is hanging on the wall.

Another option to leaving the bottom skins clecoed is to strategically use a few soft blind rivets (i.e. skin corners and a few along the edges) to be later drilled out at inspection time. The QB fuse comes with several instances of this where they want it to hold together for shipping, but it needs to come off for the build. They've been easy to drill out without enlarging holes. Clecoes would work, but then you've tied up clecoes you'll want for the fuse, and they tend to catch on things.

Hope to run into you sometime, and good luck on your x-country tomorrow. Weather looks great!
 
Wing Progress

I went further with my wings, but for a different reason. I live in Minnesota, and I knew that when I got into the fuselage, I would be back to priming again. Since I'm also building in a confined space, I needed to wait until Spring to do any priming, so I decided to "complete" my wings. I mounted the ailerons, adjusted them, and mounted the wingtips (using #6 hex-head SS screws - lots of nut plates!). I also put the antennas and lighting (LED position, strobes) into the wingtips and the Duckworks landing/taxi into each wing. Finally, mounted my flaps and, and also put in the bracket in the right wing for the TruTrak autopilot servo. After I finish the tank pressure test, I will call them "done".

I'm fortunate enough to have a relative with empty garage space, and move my pieces there when I'm done.

I have not done any fiberglass work, and will leave that to the end and do it all at once. However, I'm not building a show plane and don't think my wingtips will require much work (except for finishing). Some reinforcement strips inside where the fiberglass is a bit thin, a layer over the antennas to hold them in, and some amount of finish work, the latter which will take most of my time there. Haven't been there yet, but understand it does take some work to get the pinholes out and ready for primer/paint.

You would not have to do it this way, but the season dictated things for me. I must admit, however, that it does feel good knowing that, outside of the fiberglass and wiring everything up, they are "complete".
 
I hung my wings on a wall. Not difficult at all, just make sure you are mounting to a stud if you do it this way...

12-9-06-011w.jpg

12-9-06-014w.jpg


Mine are stored at a friends hanger until I need them again.

As far as how far to go...as you can see, I've mounted the control surfaces, but not permanently. I also did the tips (no real fiberglass work though...just fit 'em), and the bottom skins. If I had my fuselage a few months earlier, I would probably have waited on the bottom skins and tips, but I had time, and didn't want to sit around with idle hands.

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I saw one of these carpet stands a few days ago

prkaye said:
Thanks Paul.
I think I've seen some alternative designs for the wing-cradle (alternative to the design Vans shows in the plans). This one looks very good:

http://lrosen.nerv10.com/Construct/WingStand/slides/Wingstand.html

and looks like it holds the wings pretty close together (relatively small footprint - takes up less shop floor space).
Click to expand...

Phil, I saw something like this a few days ago (holding the HS and VS for a Murphy Moose) and I was unimpressed by how much the parts floated around when we moved the structure. The stand I saw had the carpet straps at both ends.

If I did this, I'd still cut a small relief into the surface at the fixed end, per Van's dwg, to eliminate the opportunity to slide a spar off the smooth 2x4.

I used the plywood with nose-rib cutout and cut down the space between the two wings. I'm gluing a doubler strip to the plywood between the two nose rib cut-outs.

I too am very limited for space, but I'm going to try to keep the base of the stand nice and wide to save me from myself from knocking the lot over :)
 
Finish them

Canada strikes again with the somewhat goofy regulations on pre closure inspections. Doesn't make much sense on a metal airframe, but I regress.

Can you get an inspection on the wings now? If so, get the inspection and finish them up. Chad's hanging idea is a good one. I've also seen a sling set up from the ceiling.

I'm a big proponent of finishing each part at a time without having to come back to it. That way you have several small victories on your road to the Big One.

Unless it is a PITA I'd get the inspection by component. The inspector might enjoy that method too.
 
You've really got something about Canadians Darwin. Lighten up. Crossflow screwed you. I'm sorry to hear that. I've been screwed by plenty of American companies and clients too but I know they are just a few bad apples out of many bushels of shiny, sweet ones. Probably the same in every country.

The MDRA inspectors want to be able to check rivet heads etc. before a structure is closed for safety. Makes sense to me. They charge for inspections so you might have to pay twice to get multiple parts done. They prefer to do all structures at once on the pre-cover. No big deal, you drill, deburr and dimple the skins and just have them sitting. About 30 hours will cover all the final skin riveting. This is a fraction of the total build time.

The final inspection makes sure you bolted it all together safely. We have the most open regs in the world for amateur built aircraft. I'm thankful for all of the efforts of RAA to remove Transport Canada out of the loop here. All the inspectors I have met have been extremely helpful, cooperative and reasonable.
 
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additional MDRA inspection

You will have to pay for an additional inspection. Given the overall cost of the aircraft, the inspection fee is a minor issue.

I'm paying for an additional pre-cover inspection for my HS/VS in order to minimize storage space.

Worth the money to me.
My local MDRA inspector was very helpful and provided good positive feedback. I was hesitant prior to the inspection (nobody expects the Spanish Inquisition!) but it went well.

PS. MDRA is changing (reducing) the list of inspection types to simplify the paper trail. I don't remember the detail, other than the "sub-assembly" inspection title is being dropped, and those inspections lumped under another title.

Now, on to figuring out how to plant two wing stands in my itty bitty garage.
Helped a guy unload a wing kit for a Murphy Moose this afternoon. 1 crate about 16 ft long, 700 LB. Ouch.
 
Pre-close inspections...

Being a first time builder, I look forward to the pre-close inspection that Transport Canada requires (coming very soon). I feel I'm doing pretty well, but it sure won't hurt to have someone confirm that. I have met the MDRA inspector in this area from monthly RAA meetings (for you Americans, think EAA). He is a greybeard who flew in the war and has built several planes. That TC wants him to check out my work while it can still be seen ain't a bad thing... I think I'd be doing something like that even if it wasn't required. I think it is kind of like a DAR check in the US, except mandatory, but maybe I don't understand that right.

If this were my third RV and I had (by government decree) to have someone put checkmarks beside something I already knew was pristine, I may feel different, but most of us aren't in that position.
 
my wings are on the wall

and have been for over 5 years (extremely slow build) and they haven't moved. I used a heavy duty steel shelf bracket screwed into a stud for the spar end and i used two seperate nylon ropes attached to the tip end through holes drilled into the part of the spar that gets cut off anyway. I hung one with aileron and flap and one without. The whole wing only weighs about 70-80 lbs and me and a friend easily put them up there.
 
Read again

rv6ejguy said:
You've really got something about Canadians Darwin. Lighten up. Crossflow screwed you. I'm sorry to hear that. I've been screwed by plenty of American companies and clients too but I know they are just a few bad apples out of many bushels of shiny, sweet ones. Probably the same in every country.

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Click to expand...

Ross, I'm not going to belabor this. I have said many times I have nothing against the people of Canada. Check your private mail. Also, see Simon Hitchen's "Inspiration" in the 7/7A section. I have many, many friends and relatives from Canada. I can now add Simon to that list. He is even planning on using an Eggenfelner and I still took him for a ride in my ECI powered 7. :rolleyes:

Done with it.
 
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