S

Stormer

Member
Anybody know if the center section bulkhead(604A) is included with with wing kit when purchased from Vans or does it come with the fuselage kit?
 
The 604A bulkhead comes with the wing kit, beacuse it is match drilled to the wing spars at the factory (Van's factory......not your factory :) )
 
it comes with the wing kit

because the wing main spars are match drilled to the centre section, the centre section is included with the wing kit.
There is nothing to be done with it until you are building the fuselage, but if you are acquiring a wing kit, you will want (have to get) the match drilled centre section.
I think that the 14' long fuselage longerons were also included with the wing kit (simply for ease of shipping), so a complete wing kit should include those as well.
Bill Brooks
Ottawa, Canada
RV-6A finishing kit
 
+1 on the bulkhead being included in the wing kit. The only time it would not be included is if a quick-build fuse was ordered, then they hold onto the bulkhead.
 
OK thanks for the info everyone. Now I've got the 64,000 dollar question. My brother-in-law started a RV6A kit back in 1993. He never quite finished the aircraft and I am interested in buying it as is. The problem is that somehow the wings have gone missing (long story but they are gone). So now I'm looking at buying some wings and fitting them on the existing aircraft which would involve removing the center section bulkhead(604A) from the already built fuselage and replacing it with the new version that will come with the wing kit. The original kit was made in 1992 before they did the universal match drilling of the spar section. Vans says that this has never been attempted and possibly very difficult if not impossible to do. My partner is an AME with lots of sheet metal and structural experience and he is keen to attempt it. My concern is that we might get well into this project and then realize that it is in fact not feasible. Also the original zero timed, inhibited, engine has been sitting for 15 years and may also have some issues.
Has anybody out there had any previous experiences with these 2 issues and if you have, some feedback would be helpful.
 
Just a data point...

About 13 yrs ago a guy was interested in buying the -4 I owned at the time, but decided not to buy. Several years later I ran into him at OSH, & he told me this story.

He had bought another -4, & managed to damage the wings. He found another set of wings & asked Van's about mounting them to his existing center section. He was told 'no way; each set was manually match drilled.' He decided to gamble, bought the wings & they plugged right in with everything lining up.

Obviously, your mileage may vary. :)

Charlie
 
Engine sitting

I purchased a RV-4 that had never flown and had a new O-320 that had been sitting on it for 8 years. I now have 130 hours on it and the oil analysis have been fine and it only uses 1.5 quarts of oil between changes ( 50 hr ).
 
wings

Here is one of those just wondering questions. You would think that most parts being built by VANS such as wing spars, ribs, etc etc are made using jigs and if so wouldn't most parts be pretty much standard and if so why would the center section bulkhead be any different. Do they assemble the wing and then then drill the holes? If they do assemble the wings it would have to be placed in a jig and the jig would be the same for every wing. Just curious.
 
Interested Also

I'm interested in the answer also, as ....
I have a flying 1991 vintage RV-6A with slightly damaged wings, and I also have a set of almost finished 1991 wings, empennage & center section pieces.
Sure would like to give the plane new, undamaged wings, and a new paint job (easily).
 
I would think it is possible

although I've not done it, and this based only on the pretty much anything is possible school of thought.
Drilling out and reinstalling rivets is easy - speaking from lots of experience!
The question is whether there is reasonable access to reinstall what you drill out, and how much of teh fuselage you have to dismantle - in other words, are you prepared to do it.
If you look at the installed F-604, you will immediately see that to remove it, you will have to figure out how to get it out from under the upper fuselage longerons. You will either have to remove the rollbar (if it is a slider) and the canopy deck, arm rests, etc. Even then, it amy be impossible to tilt it enough to clear the longerons. Alternatively, take it our from the bottom, which would necessitate at least partial drilling out of floor skins (and only if the width of the structure is not more at the top than the bottom.
Possibly easier to take the F604 apart in situ, and pull it out piece by piece, and reinstall the new one the same way, if access allows.
You would want to use a false spar to get the spacing right, and be careful to keep any twist from developing in the fuselage. In taking out the F-604, you would ideally want to have a jig to keep everythng straight.
So, I think it is possible - its more a matter of whether you want to do it, which probably isn't a very helpful response.
Bill Brooks
Ottawa, Canada
RV-6A finishing kit
 
dustman said:
Here is one of those just wondering questions. You would think that most parts being built by VANS such as wing spars, ribs, etc etc are made using jigs and if so wouldn't most parts be pretty much standard and if so why would the center section bulkhead be any different. Do they assemble the wing and then then drill the holes? If they do assemble the wings it would have to be placed in a jig and the jig would be the same for every wing. Just curious.
Click to expand...

One thing I forgot to mention is that the -4 spars I mentioned in an earlier post were almost certainly the pre-assembled (gold anodized) versions. Phlogistein, or some such spelling. The pre-assembled spars were match drilled, not by CNC, but in jigs. Repeatability was likely very good, but there were never guarantees that you could swap a wing into another wing's center section.

Pre-assembled spars are 'standard' in all the kits now, but at one time they were an option. If the plane has 'home' assembled spars, I'd say that it's a much poorer bet on getting new wings to fit an old center section.

Charlie
 
Going to pick up the RV6A on Tuesday

We are going to pick up the RV6A fuselage with the missing wings on Tuesday. The info on how to move a RV in a Uhaul has been very helpful in our preparation although we are going with a 24' truck from Penske(best price). There is a small chance that the new wing spar will fit into the center section and the holes will all line up, but we are prepared to attempt the removal of the center section if we have to.
Now my next questions are about partnership and building logs. There are 2 of us in a 50/50 partnership, splitting all cost 50/50. What sort of agreements would be appropriate, either verbal or written, to make sure everything is covered.
Also, what are people using for a builder's log, just a book in the shop or is there a computer program for that? :D:)
 
New thread?

You might want to start a new thread for those questions, for the benefit of those who will be looking for the same info at a later date.

Partnerships can be all over the map, & how they are done is all over the map, too.

Builder's log: There are several online & offline software packages designed for that, some just use a web site, you could conceivably use Facebook if you wanted, or you can do what I do; take digital pics on a fairly regular basis & write dates, times, & notes in the margins of the build manual.

BTW, you probably won't have any problem convincing the FAA that 51% of the work was 'for recreation & education', but having the previous builder's log wouldn't hurt. Might also be a factor (proving that you did enough work to be completely familiar with the plane) in obtaining the Repairman's Cert. in some areas.

Charlie
 
Phlogiston

Vans referred me to Phlogiston some years back about a replacement for a damaged spar. Phlogiston drills all the spars for Vans. This spar was damaged by a builder by grinding the spar strips to clear the tank nutplates. I was told the older serial # spar holes were laid out by hand per Vans drawings and were then drilled and reamed. Those spars were not interchangeable. After a certain serial # spar the spars were drilled and reamed using a jig. The spars that were drilled in the jig were interchangeable. The damaged spar was an older serial # that was laid by hand. I was told to cut the spar at the root end about 3 rivets to wards the tip and send the root end of the spar to them. Plogiston then built a new spar and matched drilled it to the old spar. So, if you have an old serial # damaged wing-spar. Hope is not lost. It is possible to get a new one built.
 
AMURRAY said:
Vans referred me to Phlogiston some years back about a replacement for a damaged spar. Phlogiston drills all the spars for Vans. This spar was damaged by a builder by grinding the spar strips to clear the tank nutplates. I was told the older serial # spar holes were laid out by hand per Vans drawings and were then drilled and reamed. Those spars were not interchangeable. After a certain serial # spar the spars were drilled and reamed using a jig. The spars that were drilled in the jig were interchangeable. The damaged spar was an older serial # that was laid by hand. I was told to cut the spar at the root end about 3 rivets to wards the tip and send the root end of the spar to them. Plogiston then built a new spar and matched drilled it to the old spar. So, if you have an old serial # damaged wing-spar. Hope is not lost. It is possible to get a new one built.
Click to expand...

Interesting. I have the serial number of the potential replacement (it is engraved on the center section pieces). I'll call them on the serial number but do you remember approx. timeframe the change from manual to jig was made?
 
Feb 1993 was the approximate time that the spar manufacturer started a universal drill fit for the wing spar to the center section.
 
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