Mountains as well, George....

...in the eastern US, we have 7000' + in North Carolina and in the western States, 14,000' or thereabouts. One airport, Leadville, Colorado, is close to 10,000', our highest in the US, IIRC.

Two aboard on a summer day and 118 HP simply won't cut it.

Best
 
George,

I built one of the few RV-9's with a small engine. With the 135 hp O-290-D2 I had it performed great.

However, that doesn't answer your question. The reason I believe most builders opt for the O-320 is that the cost difference between the 118 hp and 160 hp engine is negligible. Also, it is a BIG country, why fly slow?

You can always pull the black knob back to match the speed and fuel burn of the smaller engine but with the smaller engine pushing it forward only gets you so far.
 
Hmmmm

That would be like putting a 4 cylinder in Ford Mustang. Why bother?

Seriously, to take advantage of the great characteristics of the 9, you need at least 150HP. I think you'd only be disappointed if you went with such low horsepower.

The RV guys you'd be flying with probably wouldn't wait for you.:D
 
there is one other obvious explanation that most of us pampered, egocentric americans don't usually consider: the price of aviation fuel (or an alternative) in the US vs for pilots in other countries. despite our complaining, we pay a lot less for fuel than the rest of the world and so can still indulge in a larger engine and more power!
 
there is one other obvious explanation that most of us pampered, egocentric americans don't usually consider: the price of aviation fuel (or an alternative) in the US vs for pilots in other countries. despite our complaining, we pay a lot less for fuel than the rest of the world and so can still indulge in a larger engine and more power!

The 0320 will fly around all day on 5-6 gph just like the 0235 in the RV-9. Why hang a small engine when just a few bucks more will provide an edge on take and climb.

re "....pampered, egocentric americans...." I don't remember being pampered in the past or recently, and besides what does that have to do with the price of fuel (or tea) anywhere. Foreign countries pay the same price for crude as we do, the taxes on it are the difference at the pump.

So are you advocating, higher fuel taxes so we feel beat down and taxed to death like the rest of the world rather than "pampered, egocentric Americans" not taxed quite so severely on fuel? :)

I vote for less tax on RV fuel, not more.
 
RV-9A with 160 hp

I considered the O-235 engine for my RV-9A, however I decided on an O-320 to maximize the rate of climb and to be able to cruise at 160 kts if I want to. If I want economy, as mentioned above, I can just pull the throttle back. One additional consideration, the O-235 has solid valve lifters and so requires periodic checking of the valve clearance. The O-320 has hydraulic lifters which do not require this maintenance.
 
The 0320 will fly around all day on 5-6 gph just like the 0235 in the RV-9. Why hang a small engine when just a few bucks more will provide an edge on take and climb.

Played around in formation flight with my brother who was flying a 65 HP Taylorcraft over the weekend. 10 deg flaps and 1300 RPM and you have a 80 mph RV that burns 4.4 gph. Just like the Taylorcraft with the A-65.

Of course then I pushed the throttle in and smoked him by a 100mph!:cool:
 
there is one other obvious explanation that most of us pampered, egocentric americans don't usually consider: the price of aviation fuel (or an alternative) in the US vs for pilots in other countries. despite our complaining, we pay a lot less for fuel than the rest of the world and so can still indulge in a larger engine and more power!

5 to 6 Bucks a gallon of Avgas in Brazil !!! Much more in remote areas ...
 
5 to 6 Bucks a gallon of Avgas in Brazil !!! Much more in remote areas ...

I flew in the 9A prototype years ago at Sun-N-Fun I was quite impressed with the performance. I have also flown in a couple of different O-320 powered 9A's. I don't think the performance suffers as much as some people might think. Remember that drag probably goes down with the lighter weight and just as adding a bunch of horse power doesn't add an equal amount of speed. Taking away some horse power doesn't take away the same amount of speed. I would bet that the cruse speed is only slightly less with the service ceiling and climb are the biggest difference.

Brian
 
Why so few RV-9/9A with 118hp engine

From Van's performance figures:
--------------------RV-9A/118----RV9-A/160
Gross Wt (lb)---------1600---------1760
Speed/Rate of Climb/Ceiling @ Gross Wt
Top speed (mph)-------171---------194
Cruise 75% (mph)------164---------186
Cruise 55% (mph)------148---------166
Rate of Climb (ft/min)---950--------1300
Ceiling (ft)------------14000-------18500

Because I live in a mountainous region, I chose the performance from the 0-320. But if I was interested in economy with an O-320 I could cruise at 55% power at the same speed as the O-235 does at 75% power. 55%x160hp=88hp. 75%x118hp=88.5hp
 
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An Owners Experience with an O-235 powered RV-9a

Its time that an RV-9a owner with a 118 hp O-235 expresses his non-testosterone induced feelings about this setup. Lets remember that Rv-9's are non-aerobatic and were designed for economical moderate speed cruising.

I reside in N California, there are some calm days in the summer, but mostly I fly in low to moderate turbulence, and it usually gets worse in the afternoon when the thermals get active, sometimes up to 12,500 ft. This means flying at Va, which is between 110-117 mph depending on weight, so on those days more power has no advantage. On calm days I cruise at 75%, 2500 rpm, 8000 ft, at about 130 kn/hr, and burn about 4.1 g/h. At 2600 rpm, 140 kn/hr, I burn closer to 5 g/hr. So, Im delighted with the fuel burn, range, and speed. The recent dual P-Mag addition really improved the fuel burn. So my predicted fuel savings over an O-320 for the last 3 years after 400 hours is over $2k. Fuel savings will be greater as 100LL steadily gets more expensive, and when it is not available, the 8.5 - 1 compression ratio makes 93 octane auto gas an alternative. Another savings is the recommended 2400 hour time between overhauls. The solid lifters do need to be adjusted occasionally, its a pretty simple process and we do it once a year. We are very happy with our Catto composite fixed pitch prop. If you choose an O-320 or larger engine for your 9, then for $7k more, you could pop for a CS prop.

At my home airport KSTS (elev 125 ft) I can easily climb over 1000 ft/min. I would certainly not recommend this setup for a 10k foot home elevation in the Rockies. I can fly with full tanks, 1 average size passenger, and 75 lbs of baggage and will not be over gross weight. I take off from Truckee (elev 6000 ft) regularly, and T. O. distance is about 3000 ft. with passenger on hot afternoons. As mentioned above, I can't keep up with my buddies in their 7s and 8s with their IO-360s, but it has never stopped me from tagging along. My O-235 is always the easiest to start, especially when hot, and if I take off first, I'm not too far behind them when they land, I've burned half as much fuel, and I'm tied down, washed my hands, and started my first iced tea long before they all finish refueling. I have traveled over the Sierras on a few occasions at 13,500 ft and felt very safe and comfortable high above Yosemite's Tioga Pass gazing down at Half Dome in the distance, knowing that if I desired, I could have gone higher.

Yes, there are times on cross country flights, that I wish I could travel a few miles/hr faster, but I would only save maybe 30 minutes on a trip from Santa Rosa to Long Beach (360nm) where my daughter lives. Also, my weight and balance is always near the back edge of the window since the O-235 is a little on the light side.

When I was a kid, I had a '65 Ford Mustang with a small block 289 cu. in. V-8. A few more cubic inches and twice the cylinders as my O-235. It was plenty fast enough for me and it didn't burn much $0.25/gallon 100 octane leaded gas. I guess that I have not changed much, and really can't help being myself. So, I enjoy flying behind an O-235, and I'm pretty satisfied with this setup, and I have not had any complaints from my passengers that the plane is too slow. I don't see a significant advantage of a larger engine, other than traveling a few m/h faster, and of course we can't forget the pervasive testosterone factor.
 
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o-235

Mike,

When I was looking for a used engine, I would have bought the o-235 if it was the best deal to come along.

Based on Van's specs & your report, a 118 HP engine files the -9 just fine especially when compared to a certified Cessna.

People have been flying 100 - 118 HP Cessna 15x's all over the country for decades and having a blast.

As it turned out, the best engine I could find was a 150 HP o-320.

But, like I said, I would have jumped on a 118 HP o-235 if the deal was good.

Believe it or not, some people think my 150 HP is not enough!:D

BTW, the FSDO looked my plane over this morning. Aside from a few small things I need to fix, its good to go.

Have fun!

Dave
-9A
 
Opinion follows

Don't compare any RV with a Cessna 150/172 etc. Compare it with other RVs.
 
"pampered egocentric americans..."

didn't mean to offend or put anyone on the defensive with the phraseology. only wanted to point out that we (I, anyhow, even after spending much of my working life overseas) sometimes forget how much more the rest of the world pays for petroleum products than we do. heck no i don't want to pay more: i am enjoying being back in the USA where flying little airplanes for FUN is still, at least for now, economically doable for sufficiently motivated members of the middle class.
 
IMO - Seems to me that the original plan for the RV9(A) was to be a simple, gentle and forgiving airplane. However, being an RV it's not going to be dull. People soon realized it was an amazing airplane to fly and though some consider it docile, it has characteristic RV controllability and style. As per human nature some want to go faster and further and so many have opted (like myself) for the 320 and some the 360 CI engines. In doing so, I don't think they (and I) have made it a better plane. Just a little faster (what's the hurry anyway). You'll never see me snicker about an O-235 powered RV9, Frankly I have more time than money and though my plane is a bit slower than the 180 hp RV's, maybe a bit faster than the 118's, I really think the difference is in minutes not hours.
 
:D:D:D:D

Thanks for replies. As expected. I get dam close to 180kts out of the Meercat and would kill for 200+. Enough is never enough :)

Am toying with the idea on buying (I don;t have time at present to build) a RV9 for PPL training. Reg's locally are changing and it seems in near future it may be allowed. The 4 does not lend itself to training and I don't share well:eek:. Taillie schools are almost non existent locally so idea was start on Cub, then migrate to the 9 and finish off on 4 or 8, maybe with some aero's chucked in. Still in infancy, but while I dream I look at numbers since I used to be a bean counter. The 2400hr TBO and lower fuel burn make cents and speed is not factor when training. Simple and slow is maybe better?

Thanks again for replies.... now to find a 9 which does not cost more than my 4 did:eek::eek::eek::eek:
 
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