J

jetrep

Active Member
First of all I'd like to say that this site has been great and I have learned a lot. I find myself checking 'today's posts' several times a day.

I think adding an FAQ post to each section would be a huge asset to the site. For example, a few months back I was shopping for a Honda S2000. If you go to the major s2000 forum, they have an FAQ in each section. Here is an example: http://www.s2ki.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=568555

The information is well organized and all in one place. Note that they have one for each major category (tires/electronics/soft tops/suspension, etc)

This came to mind as I try to gather information about priming. I am a couple weeks away from ordering a -7 tail kit but still feel I'm not ready for it as I have no idea what do to as far as priming goes. After reading most of the posts in the priming forum I still feel like I don't have a good handle on it.

Perhaps some of the more experienced folks would be willing to make such posts? They are typically stickied at the top with no replies.

I know I am essentially asking other people to do work. I considered trying to do it myself but I am the least qualified person here to do it as I have no airplane building experience.

Any thoughts?
 
Good Idea, but...

jetrep said:
First of all I'd like to say that this site has been great and I have learned a lot. I find myself checking 'today's posts' several times a day.

I think adding an FAQ post to each section would be a huge asset to the site. For example, a few months back I was shopping for a Honda S2000. If you go to the major s2000 forum, they have an FAQ in each section. Here is an example: http://www.s2ki.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=568555

The information is well organized and all in one place. Note that they have one for each major category (tires/electronics/soft tops/suspension, etc)

This came to mind as I try to gather information about priming. I am a couple weeks away from ordering a -7 tail kit but still feel I'm not ready for it as I have no idea what do to as far as priming goes. After reading most of the posts in the priming forum I still feel like I don't have a good handle on it.

Perhaps some of the more experienced folks would be willing to make such posts? They are typically stickied at the top with no replies.

I know I am essentially asking other people to do work. I considered trying to do it myself but I am the least qualified person here to do it as I have no airplane building experience.

Any thoughts?
Click to expand...

The only problem I see with your suggestion, is that building an airplane is a VERY personalized process. It would be hard to come up with a FAQ on priming when there are 100 different primers that are available. So what one builder may absolutely love, the other may hate, or not see it necessary. There just isn't a right or wrong way... its all about personal taste, and what makes you as the builder happy... The building process not only requires a learning curve on metal working, riveting, etc.... It involves learning everything about the airplane, its systems, priming (if you choose to do so, many people do not do any at all), engines, etc. So many variables that are all going to fly the same, but it is left up to the taste of the individual builder to decide whats best for HIS/HER airplane. Hope that makes sense... cause i've confused myself! :confused: :D


Now, on the other hand, you have stumbled into one of the best group of people in the world. If something is unclear, ask! You will get several opinions and maybe some references as to how they came up with their own opinions! There is no question that is not worth asking. This is not only a great site, it is a great asset, use it and abuse it! :)

Welcome aboard btw!!
 
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An FAQ on priming, for example, would have nothing to do with what is best. It would simply list the different options that a builder has. I've seen some people mention they use rattle cans while others use two part systems (one of the many different systems). I think a simple listing of each of the major primer options (not every brand) along with advantages and disadvantages would benefit a lot of people.

I bring it up as I have seen it work very successfully on other forums for not only presenting good information but it also reduces the amount of searching needed (server load) and bandwidth usage.
 
http://www.vansairforce.net/faq.htm

I think a wiki would be great for this site. We have people here with more knowledge than just about anywhere else in aviation. It does require someone to input the data but once it's setup it could be invaluable.

BTW, I had a non-DBW Siverstone AP2 I was doing HPDE and some racing with last year. What a great car.
 
No FAQ but we do have a very good search engine and a good knowledge base.

You just have to use it and sort through the results.

I can see the FAQ now:
Q: What is the best engine for my RV-9A?
A: O-235, O-290, O-320, IO-320, O-360, IO-360, Mazda, Subi, diesel, etc.

You get the idea, there are just to many answers out there. It is not like buying a car where there are limited options and limited mods. With our planes, everything is a mod.

That and the options we have change so frequently, it would be difficult for Doug to keep up with all the answers.
 
N941WR said:
No FAQ but we do have a very good search engine and a good knowledge base.

You just have to use it and sort through the results.

I can see the FAQ now:
Q: What is the best engine for my RV-9A?
A: O-235, O-290, O-320, IO-320, O-360, IO-360, Mazda, Subi, diesel, etc.

You get the idea, there are just to many answers out there. It is not like buying a car where there are limited options and limited mods. With our planes, everything is a mod.

That and the options we have change so frequently, it would be difficult for Doug to keep up with all the answers.
Click to expand...

I disagree. the "answer" to the question in this case would be a list of the commonly (not ALL) engines and what they offer. For example:

O-290 (carb, 320 knot cruise @ 75gph, 8000 fpm climb, 6# lighter than O-320)

O-320 (common engine, good availability, simplicity of carburetor 350 knot cruise @ 90 gph, 9000 fpm climb)

IO-320 (common engine, good availability, fuel injected, can run LOP w/ engine monitoring, 350 knot cruise @ 80 gph, 9000 fpm climb, 15 LB heavier than carbureted)
etc.
 
Articles

Have you clicked on the "Articles" link on the left hand side? It seems to serve as this sites FAQ equivalent.
 
Ted Johns said:
Have you clicked on the "Articles" link on the left hand side? It seems to serve as this sites FAQ equivalent.
Click to expand...

I had not seen that...thanks for bringing it to my attention. Unfortunately the small articles on priming didn't really give the info I'm looking for as far as priming options.
 
jetrep said:
I disagree. the "answer" to the question in this case would be a list of the commonly (not ALL) engines and what they offer. For example:

O-290 (carb, 320 knot cruise @ 75gph, 8000 fpm climb, 6# lighter than O-320)

O-320 (common engine, good availability, simplicity of carburetor 350 knot cruise @ 90 gph, 9000 fpm climb)

IO-320 (common engine, good availability, fuel injected, can run LOP w/ engine monitoring, 350 knot cruise @ 80 gph, 9000 fpm climb, 15 LB heavier than carbureted)
etc.
Click to expand...

Once again... all of those numbers will vary... What kind of prop? Type of Ignition? Weight? What was the weather that day? How much fuel was on board? How many people on board? What did they weight? etc. I completely understand where you are coming from... but what you are asking for would be more of a "How I built my plane and how it flies" database rather than a general FAQ for all the various aspects of an RV that would be accurate for all models. What priming questions do you have? What exactly is it you are looking for? Someone here will point you in the right direction...
 
danielhv said:
Once again... all of those numbers will vary... What kind of prop? Type of Ignition? Weight? What was the weather that day? How much fuel was on board? How many people on board? What did they weight? etc. I completely understand where you are coming from... but what you are asking for would be more of a "How I built my plane and how it flies" database rather than a general FAQ for all the various aspects of an RV that would be accurate for all models. What priming questions do you have? What exactly is it you are looking for? Someone here will point you in the right direction...
Click to expand...

That is one way of looking at it...or you could assume the airplane is at gross weight as most comparisons do. They have done just that on Van's website so I don't think it is accurate to suggest such comparisons cannot be made.

Obviously not everything can be covered in an FAQ, but a general listing of the, say, 5 different types (I have no idea how many there are) and how they work would be great. There may be 100 different primers available but I'm sure most of them fall into one of only a few categories. I will post my primer specific questions in the proper area.
 
jetrep said:
That is one way of looking at it...or you could assume the airplane is at gross weight as most comparisons do. They have done just that on Van's website so I don't think it is accurate to suggest such comparisons cannot be made.
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OK, whose gross weight do you use? Many builders set their own GW higher than what Van recommends.

Also, the numbers on Van's web site were determined after a LOT of flight testing, probably more than most builders do during their Phase 1.

You are asking everyone who builds a unique airplane to run the full tests, use calibrated flight instruments, scales, similar techniques, AND not fudge the numbers because they are disappointed by what they found.

Not even Van's has built a plane in every combination, so they don't really know what the actual numbers are for each combination.

Take the RV-7, there are four different engine combinations available in 150, 160, 180, 190, and 200 HP versions. Add in injection vs. carb, mags vs. EI, fixed pitch vs CS prop, two blades vs. three, composite vs. metal, nose wheel vs. tail wheel. There are just too many combinations to get realistic data.

The Numbers Van's has are very close to what you will see if you build it the same way he does.

Here is a good example, the other day I gave a ride to a friend who has just checked out in an O-320 powered -9A. He told me we were off the ground at the same place, if not sooner in my O-290-D2 powered -9. That climb prop that lets me get off the ground so quickly, coupled with an empty weight of 990 lbs, limits me to 165 MPH. That's not a good comparison to post because I'm certain with a different prop, I could retain that climb performance and add 10 to 15 MPH on the top end. (Longer prop with more of a cruise pitch.)

Don't get me wrong, I think you have a good idea but it is impractical in this instance.
 
jetrep said:
I disagree. the "answer" to the question in this case would be a list of the commonly (not ALL) engines and what they offer. For example:

O-290 (carb, 320 knot cruise @ 75gph, 8000 fpm climb, 6# lighter than O-320)

O-320 (common engine, good availability, simplicity of carburetor 350 knot cruise @ 90 gph, 9000 fpm climb)

IO-320 (common engine, good availability, fuel injected, can run LOP w/ engine monitoring, 350 knot cruise @ 80 gph, 9000 fpm climb, 15 LB heavier than carbureted)
etc.
Click to expand...

Awesome cruise speeds!

:D
 
N941WR said:
You are asking everyone who builds a unique airplane to run the full tests, use calibrated flight instruments, scales, similar techniques, AND not fudge the numbers because they are disappointed by what they found.
Click to expand...

I don't actually think such an faq/summary is needed in regards to engines...I was only replying to another post. Certainly there are many topcs where creating a meaningful faq would be nearly impossible. This doesn't disqualify all topics as being poor candidates though. I prefer trying to come up with ideas for how we CAN do something, not reasons for why we can't.
 
Custom Airplanes

I thought of this thread today when I ordered my sandwich at Subway. Every RV is like a sub sandwich, different because they are customized to the preferences of the owner.

John T, all you need to do is order an empennage kit and start bucking some rivets. The VAF Forums is an enormous resource of information. The more you use it, the more you will discover its usefulness. You will also find links to several builders' sites that may answer some of your questions.

I am an engineer, too, but if you're looking for a list of discrete questions with discrete answers to all decisions relating to building an RV, I don't think you'll find it anywhere. What you will find here is a family of folks who are willing to answer almost any sincere, reasonable question based on their experiences and opinions. :eek:

Welcome aboard!

Don
 
Welcome aboard!

Don is right--there are just too many variables. We not only don't know all the answers, we don't even know all the questions yet.

In thinking about this (and it does seem like a logical thing at first glance) it seems like, the more often a question comes up, the more numerous the possibilities. This is probably why the question is frequent! Priming is a good example; there are dozens of ways to go about it and no one way is "right." Even listing them all would be difficult, and they change often.

We all set out to build the best plane possible, but as near as I can tell, it hasn't been done yet. You are in that stage, planning for the best of everything. How you prime will make little difference, unless you REALLY screw up. (Breathing the fumes of XYZ will make your toenails fall out!) That's why this forum is here. Set out to build a good plane, ask when you feel you need help and you will succeed. Besides, we like answering questions, even a couple of times.

Bob Kelly
 
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FAQ

The best FAQs I've seen aren't a list of simple one sentence answers. Some people may want that I guess, but all I can say is the world doesn't work that way. God is in the details, as Stephen J Gould used to say.

Good FAQs are often just an edited version of a thread that was created intentionally to become a FAQ entry. People post to contribute their knowledge on the subject. Unless the topic is trivial, they are not an end in themselves, but serve as a great starting point for someone new to the subject. All the various opinions get in there because anybody can contribute.

I remember reading a post from at least a year ago from gmc george about various ignition systems. It was long and informative, and he had obviously spent a lot of time writing it. If I wanted to find it now, I'd have to probably spend hours wading through search results (No I'm *not* complaining, I love VAF and the search feature!)

I imagine the biggest obstacle is finding a volunteer to edit and maintain it. No I'm not volunteering :p

Some possible topics that would make good FAQs IMO:
-) fuel, vent, and brake line routing
-) engine mounts
-) oil coolers
-) antenna locations
-) diff. between various fuel injection systems
-) slider canopy frame bending
-) canopy cutting
-) time -saving tips organized by kit (emp, wing,etc)
-) routing wiring to aft fuse

and I could go on ...
 
amilder said:
The best FAQs I've seen aren't a list of simple one sentence answers. Some people may want that I guess, but all I can say is the world doesn't work that way. God is in the details, as Stephen J Gould used to say.

Good FAQs are often just an edited version of a thread that was created intentionally to become a FAQ entry. People post to contribute their knowledge on the subject. Unless the topic is trivial, they are not an end in themselves, but serve as a great starting point for someone new to the subject. All the various opinions get in there because anybody can contribute.

I remember reading a post from at least a year ago from gmc george about various ignition systems. It was long and informative, and he had obviously spent a lot of time writing it. If I wanted to find it now, I'd have to probably spend hours wading through search results (No I'm *not* complaining, I love VAF and the search feature!)

I imagine the biggest obstacle is finding a volunteer to edit and maintain it. No I'm not volunteering :p

Some possible topics that would make good FAQs IMO:
-) fuel, vent, and brake line routing
-) engine mounts
-) oil coolers
-) antenna locations
-) diff. between various fuel injection systems
-) slider canopy frame bending
-) canopy cutting
-) time -saving tips organized by kit (emp, wing,etc)
-) routing wiring to aft fuse

and I could go on ...
Click to expand...

I think putting FAQ in the title was a bad call on my part. What I really had in mind is more of a guide for major topics. A guide with a general overview of the topic...obviously not touching on every little point...if that was even possible there would be no need for a messageboard! I'm not against searching and have done my fair share...it often leads you into other things you never thought about. I think some folks are reading way too much into it. I think it is quite easily done for many topics by those with the knowledge. IF/when I get sufficient knowledge on a subject I will create a 'guide'

I like the idea of a wiki but based on my experience on other forums they don't get used very much. The matronics wiki looks like a good start.
 
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