C

C5Engineer

Member
I surf the experimental area of barnstormers every day just to drool over some of the cool planes that are on there. I've noticed that there are a TON of RV's for sale. Is it the economy? I can't fathom spending the kind of money it takes to build an RV let alone the thousands of hours of blood sweat and tears building a one off airplane only to sell it. Thoughts?
 
You have to remember there are 6,000 of them out there! Some build new ones, some can't fly anymore and some are buying a different RV.
 
I agree with Todd - many reasons, but you see a lot because there ARE a lot of RV's! There are more RV's flying than ALL of the single engine Grummans (Yankees, Travelers, Cheetahs, Tigers.....) ever built.

I'm also guessing the economy s hitting folks hard - if you have the money, and would rather buy than build, I can't think of a better time.

Paul
 
Well...

I would say its 90% economy, 10% just life changes.
I work in the financial business...I see it everyday. Who really needs an airplane. Who really needs a $100K airplane at that. Lots of people have a few grand for a tail kit, a few grand for tools. Its a dream. Life is good and they build on ordering another piece of the kit. Even if things are great...it starts to bog down when someone wants $20K plus for the engine, lots again for avionics. Kids, wives, ex wives all chomping at the bank accounts. A serious snafu like last years economy really hammered even those that had their affairs in order. The people that had big mortgages, and big dreams got slammed. Anyway, I know lots of people selling harley's, selling condo's, even selling beat up investments just to get out and clean up their financial mess and move on. I dont think anyone is selling that doesnt have some "toxic debt" or family issues that just must come first. We have all sat and looked at our projects and said to ourselves "what the **** did i get into"...throw divorce papers, a pink slip from work, or health issues in the mix and it all goes south fast.

My engine is shipping while we speak...I just shake my head and "believe". Is that enough... I hope so. :) Delaying a dream is tough...to actually be forced to give up a dream and watch the kit or plane be carted off...that has to really hurt. (unless your 10 kit just got delivered!)
 
It's the Economy...

Clearly the economic downturn is the material culprit, as Rick stated. Financial pressures are forcing growing numbers of folks to sell "discretionary assets" such as airplanes, boats, vacation homes, etc. (Ok, some forum members may disagree with the premise that airplanes are discretionary!) Moreover, the same pressures have also significantly reduced the number of folks that would otherwise be buyers of these assets.

To put things in mathmatic terms (for those engineer-types out there) More supply + less demand = bigger inventory. :D
 
There are alot of nice RV's that have been completed. Much more so than other experimentals due do the quality of the design and plans/Van's RV support/parts and great performance. Everyone I have ever seen get out of an RV is impressed by the performance - much more impressed if they are a pilot!!

With the downturn in the economy, the price of singles are off but not down at the bottom of the cliff like the twin market!

I am hoping to fly a variety of planes instead of being married to one plane.

Re: buying and selling. What's the best way to market to sell a plane? What is the best way to make an offer to buy without getting cussed out for a low offer?
 
Economy

Hard to say with any precision as the reasons are perhaps as varied as the aircraft offered for sale.

I can say with some basis of fact that the economy is going to get worse and there will, therefore, likely to be more, not less, on the market in the coming months.

Here in the US I can tell you industrial orders are drying up for what little manufacturing sector there is left. I am in the fabrication business and am seeing a lot of my large customers (defense, aerospace, and medical) just holding off buying as long as possible. They, in turn, are seeking new business as their traditional bread and butter lines of business are in the tank.

Articles yesterday showed that the cash for clunkers program was a flash in the pan as auto sales further tanked last month. Saturn as a company and product line will soon cease to exist as GM/Penske deal fell through due to lack of suitable manufacturer post GM being available. So how many good paying jobs does that add to the rubble?

Our economy has been turned into service nirvana where everyone is selling hype to everyone else and real wealth creation in the form of conversion of raw materials into value added products by the addition of intellectual capital and applied labor has been outsourced to the lowest bidder as more money could be made charging 25% interest on credit cards and selling default swaps. Easy come easy go. The carnage left behind is for someone else to clean up.

Well get out the brooms we've all got some sweeping to do. A few months back I saw some glimmers of activity - now all I"m hearing is cutbacks and rescheduled orders.

So, as stated earlier, I suspect its the economy.
 
The economy notwithstanding demographics many play a part in this. In a similar vein I was having a discussion regarding a high number of homes for sale on a particular street. I pointed out the price point of the homes made them affordable to those only of a higher income. There were no starter homes on that block. The average age was probably 60 or more. The high turnover was no doubt due to retirement and downsizing or moving south for warmer climes.
The age at which discretionary income( kids out of school etc. ) allows this causes a narrower "age" window of opportunity therefore a shorter time of ownership and higher turnover. No proof of this just an observation. The medical thing only helps to shorten the time available. This is why I'm trying to do this now before I regret not doing it at all.
 
There are 30,000 experimental aircraft registered. 20% are RV's. If all the RV-8 kits were completed (3,000 have been started), just RV-8's alone would account for 10% of the fleet.

If you are concerned that the numbers of RV's for sale suggest a dissatisfaction with them, note that a lot of people have built 2, 3 or more RV's.
 
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