RudiGreyling

RudiGreyling

Well Known Member
Hi RVators,

I've been thinking really hard what redundancy I need in my RV10 for IFR operatinos.

I'm finding it hard to justify 2 Comm Radios, BUT I am not a IFR pilot yet, and I don't know what I don't know yet! So I am reaching out to the guys in the know and the experience...

I'm thinking to invest in redundancy that help you FLY the airplane, so redundant instrumentation that gives airplane orientation and positioning away from high terrain.

SO Why 2 Comms? if you get a Comm failure during IFR it is not life threatening? the plane is still flying right and I can keep it the right side up and pointing in the correct direction?

I currently fly a VFR RV7 behind a Garmin SL40 Radio. The Standby Frequency and Monitor Listening into 2nd channel is very convenient on the SL40. For the RV10 I'm thinking a Garmin 430W (or 530) as the center piece for IFR. PS: Does the 4/530 have "Monitor" functionality to listen into the 2nd channel?

Your comments appreciated.
 
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430/530 functions

Hey Rudi,

The 430 or 530 do not have a monitor function for the comm. I believe the only radios that have that feature are the SL 30, SL 40, and the ICOM IC-A210.
 
Hi Rudi..

...I currently have an SL-30 in my -10 but I just ordered a 430W and the SL30 is staying.

I've had radio failures and a handheld didn't cut it because the range was so short. If you intend to get instrument rated and fly solid IMC as I will, a good, second radio like the SL40 is hard to beat. Imagine a scenario where you're IFR, on top, over the Drakensberg mountains, near dark and your radio goes belly up. That's the sort of scenario when these things usually happen and besides, an SL-40 is such a small percentage of the overall cost, it's very affordable. Quite a few guys replace their SL-40's with SL-30's, so a good used one could easily be found discounted.

Best,
 
IFR is all about being ahead of the game and you'll use your radios a lot. The more frequencies you can have preloaded, the easier it makes things.

Redundancy is important too.
 
RudiGreyling said:
Hi RVators,

I've been thinking really hard what redundancy I need in my RV10 for IFR operatinos.

I'm finding it hard to justify 2 Comm Radios, BUT I am not a IFR pilot yet, and I don't know what I don't know yet! So I am reaching out to the guys in the know and the experience...

I'm thinking to invest in redundancy that help you FLY the airplane, so redundant instrumentation that gives airplane orientation and positioning away from high terrain.

SO Why 2 Comms? if you get a Comm failure during IFR it is not life threatening? the plane is still flying right and I can keep it the right side up and pointing in the correct direction?

I currently fly a VFR RV7 behind a Garmin SL40 Radio. The Standby Frequency and Monitor Listening into 2nd channel is very convenient on the SL40. For the RV10 I'm thinking a Garmin 430W (or 530) as the center piece for IFR. PS: Does the 4/530 have "Monitor" functionality to listen into the 2nd channel?

Your comments appreciated.
Click to expand...

The reason why there are often two communications radios is in case one fails, then you will have a backup that you can easily switch to.

Of course, since it is your plane, it is your decision, but if I were you I would make provisions for an extra radio. Now then, this may never happen to you, but I had a bit of a scare about a year ago due to a failed radio, but fortunately since there was a second radio, the incident turned out to be nothing more than a bit of a scare. However, since radios are not that expensive, not that power hungry, and not that heavy, I think that an extra radio is well worth the investment.

Either a panel mounted radio (and the RV-10 has plenty of room for an extra panel radio), or a hand-held radio that you can easily access from the front, left seat would be adequate.

As for me, I am working on an RV-8 and my back-up radio will be a hand-held unit and there will be a antenna jack on the panel that can be used by the hand-held unit.

And sorry, but I do not have enough experience with the 430 and 530 units to answer your specific questions about them.

In any event, I hope this helps all the same.
 
boom3 said:
IFR is all about being ahead of the game and you'll use your radios a lot. The more frequencies you can have preloaded, the easier it makes things.

Redundancy is important too.
Click to expand...

Here Here. It's always nice to have ATIS, Clearance delivery. Ground, And Tower dialed in so you can sound like a player at a busy airport.
In my case when learning it eliminated the need to keep a kneeboard log of frequencys. In the days of 1 radio and no flip flop when you tuned the radio you were off freq. Could be a handful when hand flying IMC and couldn't get to the next hand off. The second radio always kept you connected to somebody.
 
As said earlier, IFR is all about being ahead of the game. That being said adding a SL-30 let's you check ATIS, contact FSS, x-check VOR/ILS, and a slew of other things that really will help in the real world.

You "can" fly IFR with only the 430, but you'll love the virsitility that a second NAV/COM offers.
 
Another vote for 2.

As others have said, It's all about staying ahead of the game.
I fly strictly VFR. I have 2 comms. I flew for years with one and never had a problem. I installed a second and now can't imagine flying with one. It's just so convenient.

I fly a lot very close to Class B airspace. I can monitor ATC and still talk to others. When going cross country, #2 stays on 121.5.

BTW the XCOM monitors the standby frequency and I'm sure there are others too.
 
I am IFR rated and plan to fly enroute IFR with my single SL30. My list of upgrades after I get flying is growing and a SL40 is on the short list. Perhaps Dynon will have their comm feature added to SkyView by then. They say it'll be a year (I am not holding my breath).

Bottom line, install what you can afford. A second comm is great, but you can easily install a second later.
 
To me the best thing Dynon could do on their Com/Nav radio plans is to partner with MGL and integrate theirs into the Skyview (and maybe the legacy units??) !!!!

After all, adding a com/nav radio interface to the system should be a simple operation since MGL used the SL30 communication protocol as its foundation.

There is a lot of work in getting a radio rolled out in the US....red tape work that is.
 
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Audio Panel = even more versatility

The audio panel also adds functionality. The AP simplifies switching between Comm's and provides additional Monitor capability.

Both my Comms (480 & SL40) have the built-in monitoring which will let me monitor the "other" freq if I'm "on" that radio. The AP lets me monitor a freq on the "other" radio if I want.

As other have said, it's all a matter of having all the freq's you may want to use pre-loaded and the ability to use them and switch between them seamlessly.
 
I'm only VFR rated at the moment but fly in/around/through the DFW and HOU Class B areas. I find that having one comm with standby monitor (SL40) is just enough. You can pick up the ATIS on the standby if the primary freq isn't too busy, but often it is, and it takes several repeats of the ATIS to get it all.

Worst case for me is coming into ADS from the south, where I have to talk to Class B approach, then Love approach, then ADS tower. I normally don't get altitudes above 2500, so I can't pick up the ATIS very far out (there are lots of TV/radio transmitters to the south, and that affects the radio a bit). I often don't get the complete ATIS before I get handed off to ADS tower since the approach freqs are so busy.

Two radios would be nice, but are overkill for VFR. It also requires either a audio panel or more switch work for swapping the mic and audio. For IFR, I'd think it would be money well spent.

TODR
 
I guess I'll be the devils advocate.

I do not disagree with the comments re convenience, safety,staying ahead of the situation, redundancy, etc but....


I think the fierce feelings about needing two comms especially for IFR dates back to when radios were not exceptionally reliable (vacuum tubes) and frequently the transmit tube would burn out.

I am also sure there are forum members who remember having to deal with crappy radios, prepare for an adf approach in a direct x wind all the while spinning their e 6b to tell atc their expected time to the next compulsory wayoint as noted on the unfolded low enroute chart that covered everything in the cockpit. These guys also probably walked to school barefoot in the snow.


Todays radios are reliable enough for me to fly ifr with one panel mount. But remembering the old days I also carry a hand held nav com just in case.

Pierre mentions they have limited range, which is true, but they are strong enough, usually, to talk to approach/tower when you arrive at your destination or at least a tower facility along the route.
 
Another vote for 2..

Mel said:
I fly a lot very close to Class B airspace. I can monitor ATC and still talk to others. When going cross country, #2 stays on 121.5. BTW the XCOM monitors the standby frequency and I'm sure there are others too.
Click to expand...

Just installed the XCom as a second Com- This will be real handy in PHX class B and the group flying that we do. It tests great on the ground, can't wait to test the functions in the air... What Am I going to do with 90 memory channels! :eek:
 
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Milt is right of course - you can fly IFR with a single Comm that is highly reliable, and you'll do just fine. I personally like to have the second comm because while the radios themselves are very reliable, I have occasionally had drop-outs due to wiring and antenna issues, and when that happens at an inconvenient time it is, well inconvenient.....

The truth is, you can get a pretty inexpensive 2nd Comm in a used A-200 - you don't have to spend a lot to make that happen!

On the other hand, IFR gets REALLY simple once you lose Comm - do what you were last told to do or expect, and they should keep everyone else out of your way. Very peaceful - until the (otential) post-flight paperwork....

And yep - done that trudge through the snow, uphill both ways while talking to ATC on a megaphone...;)

Paul
 
Mel said:
BTW the XCOM monitors the standby frequency and I'm sure there are others too.
Click to expand...

Try using the scan feature, you'll love it. You can monitor up to 99 channels (which is way overkill). Put in 4-5 freqs you use alot and you can access them by code or activate the scan feature and listen to them all. Pretty cool.
 
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You don't even need the audio panel

Rick_A said:
The audio panel also adds functionality. The AP simplifies switching between Comm's and provides additional Monitor capability.

Both my Comms (480 & SL40) have the built-in monitoring which will let me monitor the "other" freq if I'm "on" that radio. The AP lets me monitor a freq on the "other" radio if I want.

As other have said, it's all a matter of having all the freq's you may want to use pre-loaded and the ability to use them and switch between them seamlessly.
Click to expand...

Having an audio panel would be great for sure, but you can get by without one and do the same things you mentioned. You just run the audio outputs of each radio into a 100 ohm resistor and then tie them together to the input of your intercom. I found out how to do that on this site somewhere I think.
I don't pretend to know what the 100 ohm resistors really do to help and I think it works without them also. But I installed the resistors and it works fine.

I have a simple small toggle switch that switches the PTT signal and Mic Hi signal to the selected radio. This allows me to choose the radio I want to transmit on. I control which radio I want to listen to by it's volume control.

I flew for a year with just one radio, an ICOM-A200. Great radio.
One day I had one heck of a time receiving Little Rock approach. I never did figure out was it was, but decided then to install another radio!

I chose the Garmin SL-40. I love having two radios!! I can listen to ATIS and never miss someone else calling in. Where I fly from (Farmerville, LA 122.9) there is another airport 18 miles away (Ruston, LA 122.7). Ruston has a lot of student training with the flight school of Louisiana Tech. The trainers will sometimes come real close to Farmerville and still be making anouncments on the Ruston Freq.

Now with the SL-40 and A200 I can listen to 122.8, 122.9 and monitor Monroe approach on 126.9 all at the same time! It's amazing how this has helped me spot airplanes I would not have otherwise known where even near me.

I feel two radios are great for VFR also!

Mark
 
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vote for two radios.........

unless i was flying an 'ultralite' or small helicopter i would like to have 2 radios gps ect. ower planes are great machines for traveling and getting reliable service out of them. backups are great for resale also. fly more turbo
 
With two radios.

With two radios and an appropriate audio panel you can have the pilot use comm 1 and the "co-pilot" use comm 2 simultaneously. Not a deal maker or breaker but when the pilot is doing hard IFR and busy with center it can come in very handy for the person in the right seat to be able to talk to flight watch or other stations.
 
N526JS said:
With two radios and an appropriate audio panel you can have the pilot use comm 1 and the "co-pilot" use comm 2 simultaneously. Not a deal maker or breaker but when the pilot is doing hard IFR and busy with center it can come in very handy for the person in the right seat to be able to talk to flight watch or other stations.
Click to expand...
Excellent point; if you have a good right seater, having a split comm setup would be useful.

TODR
 
the_other_dougreeves said:
Excellent point; if you have a good right seater, having a split comm setup would be useful.

TODR
Click to expand...

Double excellent point! DUH, I had forgotten about that functionality that I have. Tanya and I could use that all the time. Can't wait to give it a whirl. Amazing to find more functionality after two years :).
 
I have two comms for one basic reason....I'm lazy! I find it usefull around here where we're under the Class B to leave one radio tuned to the local airport frequency that I'm on or near, the other to my buddies in the air, ATIS, Approach/ATC, flightwach or sometimes in congested areas like in St.Paul where two airports have airspace that ajoins it's nice to have one tuned it to each airport. Most of the good reasons have been listed, I just didn't see the lazy card being played yet! :)

BTW, the split comm functionality is really slick when you've got two pilots flying.

My 2 cents as usual!

Cheers,
Stein
 
SteinAir said:
I have two comms for one basic reason....I'm lazy! I find it usefull around here where we're under the Class B to leave one radio tuned to the local airport frequency that I'm on or near, the other to my buddies in the air, ATIS, Approach/ATC, flightwach or sometimes in congested areas like in St.Paul where two airports have airspace that ajoins it's nice to have one tuned it to each airport. Most of the good reasons have been listed, I just didn't see the lazy card being played yet! :)

BTW, the split comm functionality is really slick when you've got two pilots flying.

My 2 cents as usual!

Cheers,
Stein
Click to expand...

Stein & Others,

What is the difference between having two radios and one radio with a monitor feature like the SL40 or the Icom A210. (BTW, is the Icom functioning properly now?)

Granted, this doesn't allow your passenger to transmit on the 2nd frequency and it doesn't provide a backup radio. But other than those two items, why do you need two radios?
 
N941WR said:
What is the difference between having two radios and one radio with a monitor feature like the SL40 or the Icom A210.
Click to expand...

While talking to approach, tune #2 to tower freq. When it comes time, simply flip a switch. While talking to tower, tune #1 to ground. When it comes time, simply flip a switch.

When being handed off from one ATC to another, you can tune the new freq. while still talking on the old one.

Just a convenience.
 
Mel said:
While talking to approach, tune #2 to tower freq. When it comes time, simply flip a switch. While talking to tower, tune #1 to ground. When it comes time, simply flip a switch.

When being handed off from one ATC to another, you can tune the new freq. while still talking on the old one.

Just a convenience.
Click to expand...

I'm confused. (You can tell I'm flying with an "older" radio - Icom A200.)

I thought you could talk on one frequency while tuning in a second and having whatever is transmitted on that 2nd frequency be heard. Thus if you are talking to ATC you can tune in a new freq. When you want to talk on the new freq., don't you just hit the button?

What am I missing?
 
N941WR said:
Stein & Others,

What is the difference between having two radios and one radio with a monitor feature like the SL40 or the Icom A210. (BTW, is the Icom functioning properly now?)

Granted, this doesn't allow your passenger to transmit on the 2nd frequency and it doesn't provide a backup radio. But other than those two items, why do you need two radios?
Click to expand...

I have both the SL40, Icom A210, and PS Engineering 8000B audio panel. For some reason, the more weight and knobs I throw in the plane..............just makes it even more nimble and faster! :D Why, I don't know.. :)

But other than that, I monitor at least three frequencies a good part of the time. The airport I just left, Class B above, and air to air.......as we often fly with other aircraft.

Two comms wasn't the plan. I needed a quick replacement for my Icom A200 & picked up an SL40, but the wiring was completely different, although they can be a direct replacement if both use the same connectors to start with.
At that point, I ordered the A210 which slid right in. Decided two radios would be nice, and picked up an audio panel too.........since I changed from momo to stereo. Of course that required two new stereo headphones, as we use XM radio in flight.

The dual function on the Icom was already programmed when I bought it. It works. I replaced the A200 because I once connected reverse polarity to it.

L.Adamson --- RV6A

L.Adamson
 
Though I am only planning to install a single radio (SL30) in my panel, I have installed two comm antennas (one on top and one on the bottom). This way, I can connect an external antenna to the handhelf for extended range, or I will be all set to install a second panel radio later should I get involved in IFR. The added cost of a second antenna is down in the noise, and will save a lot of work later.
 
It is very handy having dual coms as Mel said. While talking to center on one radio and they hand you off to another frequency or tower I use the second radio for that. If you don't get an answer you can go back to the first radio and the frequency is still there. Sometimes I forget what the previous frequency was. Also it is very handy in busy air space to have the frequencies loaded and ready to go.
 
N941WR said:
I'm confused. (You can tell I'm flying with an "older" radio - Icom A200.)

I thought you could talk on one frequency while tuning in a second and having whatever is transmitted on that 2nd frequency be heard. Thus if you are talking to ATC you can tune in a new freq. When you want to talk on the new freq., don't you just hit the button?

What am I missing?
Click to expand...

I'm a little confused also, reading all these comments (it does not take much) but I think the context you quote involves having an audio panel where one radio or the other is selected to transmit rather than using the flip flop switch within one radio.

To confuse the issue more yet, two audio panels does permit a right seater to transmit on the other radio for what ever reason. Usually however, if the right seater is doing the com work for the flight, he would be using the same radio as the PIC so one audio panel would suffice. Or maybe some of these fancy audio panels have a function of simultaneous 2 pilot, 2 radio communication - I don't know, and maybe that's why I am confused.

Beyond that, what's the logic of spending big money to be IFR capable and going cheap with one com radio? The radio that can not fail has not been invented.

To go norad IFR is asking for a lot of paper work after having caused two dozen other airplanes to divert to make room for mr. norad at the destination airport - if he gets there. (if the flight finds itself VFR, I believe the procedure is to proceed VFR and land)

I gave up IFR long ago simply because I am not inclined to do all that is necessary to be current and proficient, and I have never cared for SEL in the clouds anyhow, especially without a parachute and an ejection seat. :)

But that being said, I still carry 2 radios, don't like one radio even VFR. There's nothing more frustrating than arriving at a place like OSH and the radio has gone TU. Worse yet is being at a control tower airport with a dead radio. That second com is cheap peace of mind.
 
2 comms for extended trips

and an audio panel allows your co-pilot to talk to other aircraft within your group without disrupting the pilot and the freq he's monitoring.

While the newer radios are probably better, everything will eventually fail. If your comm fails when you're away on a trip, it's nice to have a backup ready to go. I personally wouldn't like using a handheld in the cockpit while flying and wouldn't unless my main radio had failed. The 2nd panel mount radio would get used even when the first is in good working condition. I'd rather have a 2nd panel mount radio instead of a handheld...but will probably still carry the handheld. Ok, so it's three radios :rolleyes:

Bevan
 
Paul Thomas said:
With just a 430, if it goes down, how are you going to navigate?
Click to expand...

Paul has made a great point that I forgot. If you are depending on a single 430 for your IFR Comm and Nav, you have a redundancy issue. Generically, if I completely lose my Nav capability while IFR, I can always use my Comm capability to get vectors and a Radar approach from ATC. but if a single failure can take out BOTH Comm and Nav, then I haven't got true redundancy. While the 430 has separate power feeds for Comm and Nav features, they share a common interface panel. So for me a 430 needs at least a Comm backup for IFR.

Paul
 
Ironflight said:
... So for me a 430 needs at least a Comm backup for IFR.

Paul
Click to expand...
And/Or a handheld GPS connected to ship's power so its internal battery is always charged.

Something as simple as a used 3/496 will go a long way to getting you down safely.
 
On the A210 questions

On the A210 questions:

This is a single receiver/transmitter radio similar to the SL30/40.

First off it for the most part works just like any normal flip flop com radio with some additional memory and gps features. It only transmits on the active frequency.

Second it does have the ability to monitor the standby channel for transmissions. (Dual Watch Mode)

While dual watch is active, it constantly checks the standby freq for a signal and if it finds one, it will output that signal as long as it is tx'd until either the tx stops or the active channel gets a signal. As long as the active channel is getting a signal, it takes priority over the standby.

When dual watch is active and the standby is getting a signal and the active is not, you will hear a pause at a fixed interval in the transmission. This is when the system is going over to active and checking for a signal.

Works great for monitoring CTAF, Weather, ATIS etc on the standby while still having the tower/approach/center on the active side. If they talk, it will override the standby....

This works pretty slick but has some annoying issues as discribed in this thread: A210 Owners Please Help!

If they would fix these issues, it would be perfect as it can be with only one real reciever.
 
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Handheld as backup & noise levels

My RV is noisy, and I use ANR headsets which make a wopping difference in sound levels. I found that using a handheld without direct wiring to the headphones is basically worthless. Just too much noise to transmit, and too noisy to hear. Just like using a cell phone with no direct interface.

L.Adamson -- RV6A
 
N941WR said:
And/Or a handheld GPS connected to ship's power so its internal battery is always charged.

Something as simple as a used 3/496 will go a long way to getting you down safely.
Click to expand...

I'm not sure I can personally agree with you on that one Bill. I would have no difficulty using a handlheld/portable GPS to help improve my SA and monitor an approach while being vectored in such an emergency (loss of all onboard IFR "legal" Nav), but I wouldn't want my first level backup plan to include operating no-Comm in the IFR system without IFR-quality Nav.

While I don't disagree with you that it is possible, I would consider that to be an emergency scenario. I think it prudent to design a system such that a single failure in your avionics lets you fall back on legal, reliable operations. A second failure might be an emergency.

I understand that others might have different comfort levels - I just wanted to flesh the thoughts out a little.

Paul
 
I get by with a single radio...

FWIW,

I fly professionally, and we have two radios in the airplane because it's mandatory by the regs. However, in operation, the only time we use the second radio is when both of need to be on the radio (One talking to center, the other one talking to Ops). We do get our ATIS electronically, but you could solve that problem with a Monitor freq.

In my 5000+ hours of commercial flying, military, flight instruction, etc, the only time I had a radio issue, it was a generator problem in the plane, (My trusty 182), so the second radio didn't help.

I like the idea of a handheld that can be BNC'd to an antenna on the A/C. I've used this in the past, as a backup radio just to test the concept. I also like the idea of a handheld backup NAV solution.

Finally, it is my opinion, and strictly an opinion, that RVs are really not suited for Hard IFR flying. They are specifically designed to be sporty, aircraft, not solid stable IFR platforms like a 210. You could fly for hours at a time with a good autopilot, or a backup pilot, but my plans are for IFR capability just to punch through a few clouds.

Your mileage may vary, Cheers!


David
 
Because one might break. So, our second is a handheld with vor hooked up to a wing tip antenna. If need be, it can be connected to the main belly mount antenna.
 
WOW!

WOW! Thanks guys 40 posts in one day!

OK I think I get it, Having 2 radios is a convenience thing, just as I thought! If you agree that modern day radios are pretty reliable.

1) If you have the 2nd channel "listening in" and "channel swapping" capability like on a A210 or SL40 you are almost on par with the convenience of a dual radio setup.

2) The only other time a dual radio is helpful is if one fails. (This should NOT be life threatening) If you made provisions for backup NAV (in case 430/530 is your single Radio\NAV solution) and you can keep the airplane pointing the right direction and right way up, you should be OK. (Plane orientation and NAV is where I am going to spend my redundancy and weight)

QUESTION: I did not get a clear answer on the 430/530W query. I know it can do frequency swap, but can it do both frequency "monitor" like the SL40? (i.e. listening in on your standby frequency?) If it can then it seems to be my answer.

PS: I once flew with someone that had a duel 430 setup and a nice audio panel. Man even he got confused on which radio was linked through the audio panel connected to which mike. He often made a transmission then realised he was linked to the wrong radio/mike. So something should be said for simplicity as well.

Thank you
Rudi
 
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Ironflight said:
I'm not sure I can personally agree with you on that one Bill. I would have no difficulty using a handlheld/portable GPS to help improve my SA and monitor an approach while being vectored in such an emergency (loss of all onboard IFR "legal" Nav), but I wouldn't want my first level backup plan to include operating no-Comm in the IFR system without IFR-quality Nav.

While I don't disagree with you that it is possible, I would consider that to be an emergency scenario. I think it prudent to design a system such that a single failure in your avionics lets you fall back on legal, reliable operations. A second failure might be an emergency.

I understand that others might have different comfort levels - I just wanted to flesh the thoughts out a little.

Paul
Click to expand...
Paul,

I agree with you. The use of a hand held GPS for nav backup when flying IFR is for emergency situations only, like a total electrical or complete nav failure. Because of the hand held's internal battery, this is a natural.

For VFR flying, I have found the use of hand held GPS (496, in my case) to be all that you need. Actually, a lot more than you need.

Note: Neither I nor my plane are IFR, so this suggestion could be way off. Let me know, I'm trying to learn from all this as I'm thinking of upgrading both me and the plane.
 
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Night flight

I do quite a bit of night flying so I would not consider NOT having a second radio. When I get to my destination I want to be certain that I can switch on the PAL (Pilot Activated Lights) runway lights....even if I lose one radio.

It gets very lonely up there in the dark when you can't switch on the runway lights.

No-one has mentioned this so I thought I'd just throw it in.
 
RudiGreyling said:
QUESTION: I did not get a clear answer on the 430/530W query. I know it can do frequency swap, but can it do both frequency "monitor" like the SL40? (i.e. listening in on your standby frequency?) If it can then it seems to be my answer.
Click to expand...

Unfortunately, the 430/530 doesn't have the standby monitor features of the SL30/40. The SL products were acquired by Garmin through an acquisition.

I have selected the SL30 to add a back up com and nav device in my RV-10.
 
Thanks Bob,

Ditto Captain Avgas: you've hit the nail on the head, it has not been discussed before. So if you do night flying and you're going to a place with Pilot Actived Runway lights, and there is no alternative Tower LIT airfield close by, then a single radio failure could be life threatening.

Rudi
 
This discussion goes back and forth between WHAT IS SAFE and WHAT IS CONVENIENT.

Certainly 2 comm radios is convenient, no one can deny. Having an ability to monitor a standby freq, certainly mimics the second comm.

But I would have a hard time saying that a 2nd comm makes you "safer". A loss of a comm radio in most cases does NOT mean loss of communication. Unless you have a complete loss of power you sill have your transponder.

When the tower sees the 7600 squawk they know your radio is not functioning. (You should immediately select 7600 anytime you realize that you can't use your radio. You can switch back to 1200 or other if you get it back). Your transponder is a communication device. If you loose you all electric, yeah you loose your transponder and 2nd and 3rd comm.

Yeah, it sucks to lose your 1 radio, I have been there. Still no big deal. Over fly the tower, get a green light, enter the pattern and land. Call the tower on the phone tell them thanks! At night, choose a towered airport (if they are open) or find an airport with non-PAL. Remember your sectionals! L and L*. Heck my students hardly get to use any lights (theirs or the airports) "10 take off and landings at night". It's never a big deal. They LOVE landing in a black hole. I wish I could see there faces, but its too dark! Then we discuss the importance to taking care of their landing lights.

Personally, I don't care much for night flight. I avoid it as much as I can. Not because of loss comm, but because of loss of power. (both engine and electric). But if I need to go somewhere and leaving in the wee morning hours or get back late, I have no problem.

Still our little hobby is a safe way to travel. I am pretty sure it's safer to fly single comm than to drive my car instead.

Our safety responsibility as pilots is more centered on the ability to "see and avoid". That being said, the loss of NAV is a much bigger deal. This is where the IFR issue comes up. Should be a separate thread, "Why 2 Nav radios". I have a single SL30 going into my panel. Eventually more. But my "personal minimums" dictate that I don't fly a precision approach to below traffic pattern altitude without an autopilot and second approach capable nav device. So with a SL30, Skyview (no moving map yet) and a handheld GPS I am limited to enroute IFR. Which is great, I don't plan on descending to 100 feet off the deck in the soup, when all I wanna do is just have fun with my plane. Losing nav on an approach would be disastrous. No matter how reliable, a single SL30 won't provide the ability to fly the missed approach safely. But it is fine for enroute ops. in my configuration.

Now as a CFI I have to add this;

Steps to follow when you have radio failure

1. Establish a safe altitude
2. Squawk 7600
3. Get into cruise configuration
4. Start fiddling with the radio
5. Return to land.

Which step do most students do first? Yeah, step 4. Usually when there either on the runway or 200 feet off the deck. Yikes!

A comm failure is a HUGE distraction! Aviate, Navigate, Communicate. NO EXCEPTIONS!
 
Pilot controlled lighting

A friend of mine was flying into his home field at night. The field had pilot controlled lighting and his single radio stopped working while in flight. He had to fly to a controlled field. Not a terrible situation but a backup radio would have been nice.
I have a little ICOM 20 as backup. I only have one VOR receiver that way though. I do have a panel mounted Garmin 396 in addition to my 430 so with failure of my 430 I do have that backup as well.
Isn't it fun! There is no end to what you can put in a plane with enough money:eek:
By the way, I was a surgeon at a Salvation Army hospital near Glendale in Zimbabwe for 3 years and surely do miss southern Africa. Those are some beautiful pictures of your trip!
 
All good points

Convenience, redundancy etc..... I have a 430 and a SL40. I have ATIS and ground Freqs of the frequently used airports programmed into the 40. On long CC's I put 121.5 in the standby mode and monitor it.

Yes it is a convenience. But this means, ease of use and good cockpit resource management equaling improved safety. I use up to 7 frequencies on my short 15 minute flight to work in very busy airspace. That is a lot of work changing frequencies in a single 430. With the preprogrammed SL40 it is simple manner of hitting the swap button once.

In the scheme of the overall airplane the cost of a second comm, an antenna and some wiring is very minimal.
 
Two radio's

Nothing screws up the ATC system more than a nordo! Install the extra radio! You will also find that the SL30 & King radios have a bit more performance than the Garmin. I can always receive a faraway ATIS sooner on my SL30 than I can the Garmin. And if one needs to go away for a repair you still can fly!
Randy Utsey
N55CU / RV-7 / 270 hrs.
Charlotte, N.C.
 
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