[macrafic]

In any of the forums, one can find many threads on the "best" EFIS. I would contend that the biggest decision today for homebuilders contemplating glass panels is not which EFIS, but who will survive.

All the vendors seem to do a commendable job these days, and several times a year, they leap-frog one another with features. So, the question of which EFIS is the best is, at best, a religious discussion, and one that is only valid at the time the discussion is held.

A more interesting question is, which of these vendors will survive? OP Technologies, AFS, Dynon, GRT, BM, Aspen Avionics, and the list goes on. And, we can't forget about the big boys: Garmin, Avidyne, Chelton. I simply don't think there is enough market for all of these vendors to survive in the long run (I hold a similar position on the LSA market). I would like them to survive, because I think we owe most of our advancements in technology to these pioneers; the challenge they pose to the big boys is significant, and we all benefit. But, I simply do not think that is the case.

I would contend that the most important decision for us homebuilders right now, and the one harboring the most risk, is which of these vendors will survive?

What does everybody else think?

 

[Captain_John]

I think they will all survive for as long as they have a customer base and are happy doing what they are doing.

I know that sounds like a cop-out, but I don't see it as a risk in any way.

HYPOTHETICALLY... of my selected vendor goes belly up, so what? I start looking for another company. My display will likely work well for many years to come entirely unsupported. A good company will offer it's source code to it's customer base and perhaps someone else will pick it up. Maybe that would be a competitor? They then could offer a migration path for upgrades.

I am not worried. The market is big and good products abound.For at leastthe time being, there is enough money in it for all.

My two...

CJ

 

[Ironflight]

Interesting Challenge....

I guess I'd look at it from an unexpected angle - I wouldn't look at the technology at all (or at least not very much...). Most of the companies are building devices that are quickly adapting the features that everyone wants - so it is actually quite hard to choose based on features alone. In other words, they are all pretty much displaying what everyone wants, so that makes it hard to discriminate.

I guess to me the design really matters - the redundancy, reliability, and robustness of the hardware and software make or break it for me. But I'm not sue that everyone will evaluate these features the same way, or value the comparison....so that probably won't be a big player either.

I think that in the end, it is going to come down to how the business is run, and how they treat their customers. How long have they been in business? How is their funding? Have they been around long enough to have a good reputation for providing solid stuff at reasonable prices and to follow through on fixing problems that arise? Tell me how long each of the companies has actually been around, and you'll probably be a lot smarter in choosing a survivor. It's a tough world out there, and the ones that have already learned to survive have the best odds. Like I said - a tough world (at least in my non-business-oriented world, it sure looks tough!).

For those that beleive it is all about the best technology...I've got a really nice Betamax VCR you might want to buy...

 

[az_gila]

Anyone remember Allegro?

I think they will all survive for as long as they have a customer base and are happy doing what they are doing.
.....
My two...
CJ

CJ... want to buy an Allegro Engine Monitor?....

They went belly up - actually, just disappeared - many years ago... the instrument is nice, but I think they were almost too early to the market, and the later graphical ones did them in...

This is one trouble with small one-two person operations... but, on the flip side, if it's a big conglomerate, they are likely to pull the plug once profits slow down... You almost can't win either way...

gil in Tucson

 

[pierre smith]

Glut

My take on the whole situation is that there was already a big glut of homebuilts under construction when the glass displays came into being. You had thousands of airplanes sitting there with no panels yet and BAM! Instant market for them. I wonder how many projects are now starting each year to sustain sales.

With MGL Avionics/Stratomaster seemingly offering the best bang for the buck with more and better electronics on the way, they look like a long termer for sure.

Pierre

 

[Rainier Lamers]

With MGL Avionics/Stratomaster seemingly offering the best bang for the buck with more and better electronics on the way, they look like a long termer for sure.
Pierre

We're difinitely in for the long haul. But we are not new. Our first instruments where shipped in 2001, we're probably one of the oldest companies around (of the small guys anyway).

Very interesting thread and brilliant question. I hope you don't mind me mingling in - I'll take my "manufacturers hat" off for a while.

Yes, the market is getting crowded, but there is no reason any of the current players will have to go. While it is true that EFIS systems are getting more alike and price (and a few other things) will become the determining feature, we all are gathering a good support base. For the U.S. manufacturers, my best advice is to stop ignoring the rest of the World and ensure that your instruments are equaly usable in a metric system and imperial. Also, map data, navdata etc extends to beyond the U.S. borders.

I think there may even be scope eventually (well, sooner or later) for aliances or even mergers. No reason why not. Sometimes 1+1 does equal 3.

As I mentioned in another post - we are in the golden age of EFIS. Sounds corny, I know, but it's the truth. Regardless if you are a buyer or maker of an EFIS system - it's real exciting stuff. There is little out there that is currently offering an equal pace of development.

I don't think it matters much which system you go for, you are bound to get good value and can be reasonably certain of a good upgrade path to protect your investment. All of us small time manufacturers are aviation enthusiasts so you are in good hands.

Rainier
CEO MGL Avionics

 

[macrafic]

The reason that I posed this question in the 1st place was because I can point to instances on both ends. A few years ago, I had purchased a DRE Communications headset, based on reviews and military contracts. Very pleased with the headset. However, there was internal strife within the company, they disbanded, and nobody has picked up the product line or support. On the other hand, you see products such as the line of AOA instruments being bought and supported by AFS, or Garmin snapping up Apollo (although neither of those instances involved failing businesses).

I have no doubt we will see some of both in the future. It seems to me that each of these products is developing enough of a base that it would be financially beneficial for someone else to pick them up, should the business fail. For me, being the conservative that I am, I agree with much of what has been said; that is, the companies that have been in the business for a while (i.e. have a decent base already) have the best chances of either surviving, or being bought up in case of failure.

It was sure nice seeing a manufacturer in on the discussion. Any more of you willing to give your 2 cents worth! Any of you have public financial records that would allow us to go beyond the technical products to help us make our decision? Not tryiing to stir up trouble here; simply attempting to spend a bunch of money intelligently.

 

[Captain Avgas]

I would contend that the most important decision for us homebuilders right now, and the one harboring the most risk, is which of these vendors will survive?

What does everybody else think?

I think that when you have a company that is largely reliant on perhaps one or two technical guru/owners then the death, injury or serious illness of one person can promptly cripple the whole show. And that's regardless of a satisfied customer base.

These small high tech start-up companies will always be brittle. But there sure are some interesting and exciting things happening !!!

 

[Rainier Lamers]

I think that when you have a company that is largely reliant on perhaps one or two technical guru/owners then the death, injury or serious illness of one person can promptly cripple the whole show. And that's regardless of a satisfied customer base.

These small high tech start-up companies will always be brittle. But there sure are some interesting and exciting things happening !!!

Very true what you say.
When that happens - the vultures dive in and the company with all its know-how, designs and assets becomes a bargain for a shrewed investor (which may be a former competitor or partner). Grab a couple of fresh engineers from a university if required and Bob's your Uncle.
If the product(s) is/are good, and there is a market - believe me, it will continue.
On the other hand, if the product is marginal (even if very good) in the sense of sustainability, nobody will touch it. Then it dies.

But don't discount the small high tech startups. We started in the back of a garage like so many others and now we are at just the right size to keep the fun in. Exactly the size I want to keep it at.
Let me explain: I was part of a similar company before I started this one and that one was allowed to grow too big. Very soon it was no longer fun. In fact, I learned to hate it. The jeans walked out and the suits&ties moved in. You get the idea...

Rainier
CEO MGL Avionics

 

[Mike S]

For the U.S. manufacturers, my best advice is to stop ignoring the rest of the World and ensure that your instruments are equaly usable in a metric system and imperial. Also, map data, navdata etc extends to beyond the U.S. borders.


Rainier
CEO MGL Avionics

I think you are right on here, I have seen at least 3 or 4 mentions of this (Requests from Canada in at least 2) in just the last week or so-------

 

[MNRVFlyer]

Customer Service

Hi,

From my end, when it comes down to it, good customer service/support will make or break these companies. In my experience people buy features and looks (and then price) and don't think much about support until they need it. A few of the above mentioned list have great support, a few do not. The ones that don't are hurting a bit I think. If they can learn they'll make it, if not they won't. The experimental market is very small and people use sites like this to share their compliments or complaints. It doesn't take too long for a company get get a good/bad rep. These are my personal opinions and not that of Stein. When he wants my opinion he gives it to me...lol

 

[Phyrcooler]

Beware of the "Word of mouth"

Hi,

From my end, when it comes down to it, good customer service/support will make or break these companies. In my experience people buy features and looks (and then price) and don't think much about support until they need it.

I agree and would further add that bad service can bring down a company quickly. This is especially true with a relatively small industry such as the experimental aircraft one, coupled with the Internet. In the old days, if you had a bad experience, you B*tched about it to your friends, and they and maybe a few others would take their business elsewhere. Now, you treat a customer bad, and they can smear you quickly to big chunks of your customer base via the web. Word of mouth has a whole new connotation these days. That can be both good and bad.

For a business, the old sage advice that "the customer is always right" probably goes a long way - especially in disputes. Better to lose a bit of profit and keep a customer happy, than to be "right" and maybe loose a whole bunch of customers.

JMHO - DJ