N788RV

Active Member
I'm about ready to hang my engine and was planning on a vertermins exhaust from the start. I just started reading about the 4 into 1 exhaust. Now I have a choice. I'm building an RV-8 w/ Superior XP IO360 and light weight sump. Will I run into any installation problems with the 4 into 1 and is it worth the extra bucks. Also I'm a Harley guy. It's got to sound good.
 
N788RV said:
I'm about ready to hang my engine and was planning on a vertermins exhaust from the start. I just started reading about the 4 into 1 exhaust. Now I have a choice. I'm building an RV-8 w/ Superior XP IO360 and light weight sump. Will I run into any installation problems with the 4 into 1 and is it worth the extra bucks. Also I'm a Harley guy. It's got to sound good.

Hard to estimate the "value" question, but I'm very happy with mine. Easy installation, good performance (but I haven't flown the airplane with any other exhaust so I don't know if it's really any better).

The sound is significantly different from other RVs I've flown or listened to. Most of that is exhaust, but some is the three bladed prop. I know of two people who have bought a 4-into-1 after listening to mine.

Another plus is reduced maintenance. Many people I know have had repeated issues with exhaust hangers on the crossover type systems. I've had zero issues from day one--just bolt on and go.
 
You have lots to choose from

N788RV said:
I'm about ready to hang my engine and was planning on a vertermins exhaust from the start. I just started reading about the 4 into 1 exhaust. Now I have a choice. I'm building an RV-8 w/ Superior XP IO360 and light weight sump. Will I run into any installation problems with the 4 into 1 and is it worth the extra bucks. Also I'm a Harley guy. It's got to sound good.
Here are the choices:

http://www.awi-ami.com/4 into 1 exhaust.htm
http://www.aircraftexhaust.net/
http://www.skydynamics.com/homepage.html
http://www.customaircraft.com/systems.html

Because you have a tail dragger and a fwd facing Fuel injected engine you should be able to buy a system for you plane.

TO answer your cross over Vs. 4 into 1.

Well for trikes and carb RV's, 4-into-1 is a little more difficult or you just can't find an off the shelf set of 4-into-1 pipes. That is changing and I think awi-ami makes 4-into-1 for "A-model" RV's. For carbs or vertical FI, some of the 4-into-pipes will not work. None of this applies to to you. In my RV-7 with a O360 I had custom pipes made by www.aircraftexhaust.net. The company has been sold and the original owner was a pleasure to work with. With that said I'm sure with the new owner the quality is still good. www.awi-ami.com has off the shelf units for RV's. The other guys http://www.skydynamics.com/homepage.html and http://www.customaircraft.com/systems.html have pipes for RV's.

Is 4-into-1 better. Just do a SEARCH of these forums for info for the technical aspects. Technically yes you will see more power with 4into1 and possibly better balance (power) between cylinders. A cross over system does not have balanced pipe lengths, far from it. However the cross over fits on more RV's with out issue.

My vote is for the 4-into-1. I think I would go with www.awi-ami.com, which I think is a spin off of www.aircraftexhaust.net. Since awi-ami makes certified parts I think their QC and manufacture processes should be top notch. Regardless of design of pipes you don't want maintenance and crack issues. Also ami-ami makes 4into1's for "A-models" as well, I think the only ones making them right now I think.

I heard Vetterman may make 4-into-1?
 
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N788RV said:
Also I'm a Harley guy. It's got to sound good.

A 4 into 1 header will make your Lyco sound more like a Japanese bike than a Harley. The 4 into 2 will give you more of a chugging sound if that is important.
 
rv6ejguy said:
A 4 into 1 header will make your Lyco sound more like a Japanese bike than a Harley. The 4 into 2 will give you more of a chugging sound if that is important.

...that's all I need to know!! AAUUURRRGGGHHHHH!!!
 
Ha ha not likely, consider the source

rv6ejguy said:
A 4 into 1 header will make your Lyco sound more like a Japanese bike than a Harley. The 4 into 2 will give you more of a chugging sound if that is important.
ha ha ha come on! Pleassssssssse.


No offense to Ross but consider to source. he is putting a SUBARU motor in his RV. This comes from a guy who has a japanese motor turning gobs of RPM's sounds like a weed whacker flying over, weeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee. :D


A Lyc with 4-into-1 does not sound like a japanese bike; that is absurd. If anything its a little louder. If you are going for cool sound get 4 separate pipes, that sounds awesome. Vetterman makes them for the RV-4, should work with the RV-8 and should be cheaper or same price as the X-over.

I think Ross is getting confused with his rice burning engine. :rolleyes: I don't blame him, he's jealous that we have 4 or 5 vendors for everything on the Lyc, including exhaust, to his single vendor or zero source vendor for his Subaru.

Bottom line 4into1 is more performance. In the past the big down side of 4-into-1's was there where none available, except custom units. Now you have a bunch of suppliers. The price premium is really not much. I had mine custom made and only paid what a cross over system cost.



Go hear for yourself, its throat-er and maybe slightly louder. A cross over is more of a putt-putt-putt sound flying over and the 4-into-1 is more of a roar. Decide for your self. The slower you are the better for me and Ross. For me it's good because I can beat you in a race, and for Ross its good because he can keep up with his Subaru powered RV.

If you get a chance look at the Cafe Foundation dot ORG site. They did flight test on different exhaust on a Mooney, all of them: X-over, 4into4, 4into1, Y and so on. The 4-into-1 has clear advantages. Any way happy building.

Cheers George
 
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flyeyes said:
Hard to estimate the "value" question, but I'm very happy with mine. Easy installation, good performance (but I haven't flown the airplane with any other exhaust so I don't know if it's really any better).

The sound is significantly different from other RVs I've flown or listened to. Most of that is exhaust, but some is the three bladed prop. I know of two people who have bought a 4-into-1 after listening to mine.

Another plus is reduced maintenance. Many people I know have had repeated issues with exhaust hangers on the crossover type systems. I've had zero issues from day one--just bolt on and go.


James,
Looks good, and sounds like your happy with the 4/1. Could you trim a few inches off the aft end of that pipe or is that a no no? Thanks
 
Harley versus Jap sound

rv6ejguy said:
A 4 into 1 header will make your Lyco sound more like a Japanese bike than a Harley. The 4 into 2 will give you more of a chugging sound if that is important.


You can get the 4into1 to sound very deep and rumbly like a Harley if you make the collector larger or use a reverse megaphone. I played around with several collectors to come up with a nice sound that nobody else has and I love it. You can see a picture of my 4into1 exhaust if you do a search on VAF for Cowl Mods Speed increase or something like that under my VAF name. Good luck.
 
Secondary Pipe length matters but there are trade offs

kevinsrv7.com said:
James,
Looks good, and sounds like your happy with the 4/1. Could you trim a few inches off the aft end of that pipe or is that a no no? Thanks
Good question, go to the cafe foundation ORG web site and look up the reports they did. Excellent stuff.

http://cafefoundation.org/pdf/EPG PART IV.pdf
http://cafefoundation.org/pdf/epg.pdf
http://cafefoundation.org/v2/pdf2/EPG2.pdf

(It is pretty technical but if you commit the effort you will learn something; I know I did. One thing you learn is there are variables and goals. Are you trying to make max power or best efficiency at cruise and at what power and altitude.)


Short about 19"-29" at 2.25" for the secondary pipe. The primaries, pipes coming off the heads, are about 32"-36" by 1.75" dia. There are computer programs that will calculate this stuff. With bore, stroke, rpm, valve size, cam lift, duration and overlap and power you want peak efficiency you can calculate the theoretical best pipes. The above is about right. We have one wrinkle, we fly at altitude. The lower power as we climb with lower pressure (at the exhaust exit) changes the calculations.

There is no perfect 4-int0-1 pipe. We have to contend with practical aspects (like 29" tail pipes) and fitting it under a cowl. With that said most have a pretty good ball park set up. My secondary is 19" long but I may cut it down and do some testing of my own. I think the longer pipe has some positive effect on not beating the belly up and cockpit sound. On the other hand the few HP gain is probably offset with a little more drag. The no free lunch rule applies.

Many systems cut the secondary (the big pipe past the collector) down to say 10", for visual appeal. It will still work but you lose some "scavenging" and change the best efficiency or effective power band. In exchange you get less pipe hanging out in the breeze.

As Allan said you can go with megaphones and reverse cones (necked down exit. Drag racers do this and it not only has affect on sound but performance. Cafe Foundation tested megaphones and found some or little gain, but it was at the cost of more noise. Sounds like that is what you want, no pun.

They also tested a Coanda a cone inside the megaphone. When combined with a nozzle you thrust from acceleration of the (exhaust) gas. It has no negative effect but did lower noise.

Cafe Foundation also looked into the effect of thrust from the exhaust it self. If you had the ability to change the "nozzle" shape in flight you could get more thrust out of the exhaust. Not suggesting this is practical or worth while but just interesting. Kent Paser in his book, "speed with economy", touches on thrust from the exhaust with variable nozzles. The issue is at altitude the secondary pipe exit is too large (velocity is too low do help). Ever see a jet fighters engine nozzle change shape during large change in thrust or after burner, Coanda effect.

I had a megaphone on my Honda SL125 when I was a young kid. It was loud and it growled. I personally would not go with anything that makes significantly more nose because I fly in populated areas. To each his own, just be a nice neigbore. If you are loud and proud climb up fast and away from folks on the ground that want to shut down airports. :rolleyes:
 
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WHO MAKES 4 INTO 1 EXHAUST SYSTEMS

4 INTO 1 systems had been manufactured by Chris Stepp under the name of Aircraft Exhaust Technologies. That was bought out by Aerospace Welding Minneapolis, Inc. last year. Aircraft Exhaust Technologies products other than 4 INTO 1 systems were moved to Aircraft Exhaust. I hope this helps to clarify the situation.

For more information see: www.awi-ami.com

John Hole
Director Sales & Marketing
Aerospace Welding Minneapolis, Inc.