Flyguytki

Flyguytki

Well Known Member
So when I return back to the states it look like I will have a fair amount of cash in hand. My debate comes in which should I order first knowing that the other will not come for a year or so later?

A. Finishing Kit, Aerosport IO-360 M2S, with vetterman Exhaust, Catto 3 Blade prop, Vans Firewall Forward Kit, Sam James Cowl and Plenum

B. Finishing Kit, Full Complete Panel with all wiring needed, Full Classic Aero Aviators Interior Kit, and all remaining accessories minus the engine prop and FWF Kit.

I understand that both will take some time to get completed which will allow me to build the funds for the other option but which could I benifit more from, Should the Engine come first or should I hold off on the engine and make it the very last thing to be installed prior to completion?

Thanks for all the help guys, you cant get this type of knowledge or experience anywhere else.

-david
 
My vote would go for A.

If for whatever reason you don't have the expected funds in the future, making cheap and simple panel and interior will allow you to fly anyway.

With option B, you'd be with an engineless Lexus :D
 
A also since it is also a lot more work - and if that takes some time to complete, the avionics scene will have moved on. There is a lot of glass and other work getting all those components to fit together.

Fitting avioncs / wiring is quite a short amount of work, if well planned out (like a few days).

Andy
 
Avionics corrode slower than engines.

Buy avionics.

In regards to obsolescense, its no different than buying any newfangled electronic item.
By the time you get it home, its obsolete. However, the functionality that caused you to buy the item in the first place has not changed. Choose and be happy. Anything you buy will be better than what you rent.

Andy,
I challenge the "few days" comment. Panel fabrication and wiring added close to a year to my project. I imagine the average will be somewhere between us.
 
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I went with an approach similiar to Option A.

You need the engine to work on the cowl. Thel cowl and FWF will take longer than the panel and interior.

Don't buy avionics too far in advance. They are changing at a rapid rate. Imagine how all the folks that bought a 430W last June felt when Garmin announced the GTN-650.

I had decided on an EFIS vendor and was convinced for three years I had made the coirrect decision. Things change and I'm in the process of installing a competitors EFIS. I got a deal I couldn't refuse, but if I had pre-purchased the EFIS I wouldn't have been able to take advantage of the deal that I got.

bob
 
A

I bought the engine first and next the avionics, I think it is the best choice as avionics evolve a lot and engines don't.
If you dry the engine dehydrator plugs when they turn pink, I think you can keep the engine in the garage without corrosion risks.
 
Bastien said:
I bought the engine first and next the avionics, I think it is the best choice as avionics evolve a lot and engines don't.
If you dry the engine dehydrator plugs when they turn pink, I think you can keep the engine in the garage without corrosion risks.
Click to expand...

Would this be the same for living in one of the most rain stricken cities in the Country? We have alot of moisture in seattle and unprotected metal turns to rust pretty quickly. As long as the engine is pickled and the plugs are dried on a regular basis I would imagine things would stay rust free. Any thoughts?

-david
 
Engine first since they don't hardly ever change and it can be pickled. Just don't start it till there is a reason to.

Avionics change so rapidly and are getting cheaper all the time...buy them as late as you can.
 
Buy new engine and put airframe on it :) You did your share of button pushing in -stan enjoy pure flying. Add avionics later if you have needs and funds.Or just buy a flying modest RV and build your dream. Just thinking out of the box.
Thanks for your service.
 
I vote for engine first UNLESS you are considering a used engine. If ou were, it may take some time to find one that you will accept. We saved over $10K by buying used and have never regretted it. Then again, we started looking at the very start of the build. It still came before the panel.

Bob
 
Option A

Know what you want in your panel and then buy the wiring harnesses and trays.

Then hang the engine, wire it up, and fit the cowl and spinner.

The engine and prop are long lead time items so while you are waiting on them, you can fit the trays and wiring in your panel.

Wiring up the panel is not difficult but can take some time. However, figuring out where you want to put everything, and I mean EVERYTHING, can take some time.

Don't rush your panel, that user interface is so very important but you can do it yourself.

As for the interior, I flew my plane for three years with just some good seats and an interior by Rustoleum. Installing the interior later on is not a big deal.
 
Lots of good thoughts here - pretty much all are valid. I've done avionics first on my last two builds because deals came along that I couldn't pass up - on the equipment that satisfied my requirements. The truth is, the engine order had already been finalized by those times, so pretty much everything was on hand at once - that made it easy to proceed in parallel, which is actually very efficient. If you have to buy it one chunk at a time to spread out the finances, you'll get a lot of bang for the buck having the engine, so you can do cowl work (as mentioned). There are still some compromises this way (you want to leave forward top skins open, and that can affect cowl fit if you don't plan carefully), but they can be dealt with. You might consider getting the basic bus architecture wired early, before things get crowded - and know where your firewall penetrations will be - drilling that stuff with the engine in place is no fun.

Paul
 
Like several, I had both the engine and the avionics about the same time. I struggled with the decision on which to do "first" for a couple of days. I realized that I wasn't too keen on putting it on the gear, which I thought was necessary to hang the engine, and then having to work on the wiring off a step stool or ladder. I installed the avionics and did all the wiring aft of the firewall before hanging the engine and putting it on the gear. I made and installed all the harnesses myself. I have a fairly simple panel and did all the wiring myself. It took most of one winter of evenings/weekends to do it.

I have never regretted the decision. It may be okay to hang the engine while not on the gear and I'm sure some have done this, I just wasn't comfortable lifting it with the engine mounted to install the gear.

It worked well for me and hopefully it will fly this spring early.
 
Lots can be done with the engine in place, but don't be hesitant about unhanging the engine. You rack up a lot of mileage walking around it once hung, but it does help having it in place for determining firewall penetrations and systems routing.

John Siebold
 
Seems to me that over the past half decade or so, that engine prices have been steadily rising at a faster rate than avionics prices, and avionics technology keeps getting more and more advanced, so getting the engine sooner rather than later would be the better way to spend money now.
 
So after reading through all the replies it looks like I will be going with the engine first since its has many more components that can go along with it, IE baffling cowling etc. Now if I am planning on a Skyview should I go ahead and get the engine monitoring kit so I can get that all wired while Im at it?

I cant say enough thanks for the advice from some of the most respected people on these forums. Without you guys there would be no community so thank you.

Tom- Thanks, too bad I still have 6 months over here, only half way, just have to start planning for the future so I can keep building as soon as I get back!

Thanks again

-david
 
David, I also vote for the engine first.

Your idea of getting the sensors also makes a lot of sense, just be sure of the usability of them in the future--------as in beware of EFIS specific proprietary sensors.

Waiting to install the top forward fuse skin until all the panel wiring is done will also make your life a bit more pleasant.
 
Flyguytki said:
So after reading through all the replies it looks like I will be going with the engine first since its has many more components that can go along with it, IE baffling cowling etc. Now if I am planning on a Skyview should I go ahead and get the engine monitoring kit so I can get that all wired while Im at it?

-david
Click to expand...

I would. Get your probes installed and wiring harness done including your firewall penetrations. You can have all the wiring done FWF. If your planning on EI, get that research done and plan for it now. I would not hesitate getting your electrical system designed now, even if your avionics choices change, you can allow for modifications. You can set all of your fusing, busses, shunt, cabling, etc... before the final avionics choices and be done with FWF wiring.
 
All great information, defiantly the top skin will be staying off until the very end, I will figure out a way to cleco the skin down nice and tight so I can work the cowling. Also As far as the wiring goes, It will take alot of research to but the wiring diagram together but I just received a quote from Stein on what im looking for and from what I have looked into in the past it should be pretty simple panel/wiring. VFR bird with a 10'' sky view and a Garmin 696 or 796 with either a SL40, PAR100EX Audio panel, or maybe possibly a Dynon Radio/audio panel if they come up with one in the next 2 years or so. All this will be wired through a VPX Sport. On a difficulty scale what do you think? Pretty easy or complex? Also if someone doesn't mind speaking money for a little bit, The baseline price for the IO-360 MS2 is 27,200 to 28,900 depending on tappets you choose. Looking at most likely duel EI for an additional 1400 and custom paint for 150. Should I expect to be out the door for right at 30K or should I plan on a little bit more for accessories and misc costs??

Again, thanks so much!
 
The panel sounds pretty easy. My -9 has a Dynon 100 EFIS and D10 EMS, iCom Radio, stereo intercom, 496, transponder, and a few other minor things. It didn’t take me long at all to wire it up, maybe a month, working two hours a day.

As for the engine, if you can find a local A&P you might want to look into buying a kit engine from either ECi or Superior. The base kits are probably around $16K plus ~$3500 for the fuel injection, plus $2800 for dual EI’s, fuel pump, alternator, etc. Then toss the local guy some cash to help YOU put it together and you will probably walk out with a good bunch of money in your pocket.

PS. Thanks for your service!
 
Wow Bill I cant believe I forgot about Superior! I think you just saved me about 8K, thats half a panel right there! Thanks alot!
 
At the speed avionics are changing, I like to wait for the last possible minute to buy them. Heck, a year from now we might have total FLIR, night vision, etc...
 
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