[jimbo]

That is the question. Have searched post but before riveting in place want to be sure I won't need to drill out later.

To screw on: Obviously to gain access underneath. But if no antenna under there, and thinking positive that I won't have to replace step in the future are there other reasons?

Drifting toward riveting in place per plans. Don't need to be looking for extra work. But don't want to drill out later.

Any strong opinions that I have not considered? Same agrument can be said of the seat floor panels.

Jim
RV9A Fuse

 

[Mel]

Mine have been riveted down for over 17 years. I drilled them up once to install steps. I riveted them back down.
I have a small inspection cover with screws in one place to access the transponder antenna.

 

[Jerry Cochran]

I recently drilled out the baggage floor on a project and not that bad a task. Learned a trick to avoid spinning rivets and that is to use light pressure on the drill. So guess I would suggest riveting.


.

 

[apkp777]

I am pretty sure after a number of years, you will have to drill half the screws out. The pop rivets come out very easy. I know as I removed a floor that I riveted down (for addition wiring).

 

[Steve Ashby]

GO BACK! ITS A TRAP!!!

Don't do it Jimbo. Like you, I agonized over doing it last year and then decided to set the jillion nutplates so I could screw the floors down on my 8A. It was a royal pain in the patootie. There were several areas on the flanges that drilling and setting nutplates was problematic because of access issues. In those places, the nutplates are not pretty. If I had to do it over again, I would use the pop rivets. Good luck!

 

[Ironflight]

I guess I'll ad my voice to the pop-rivet chorus....

RV-8: 4.5 years flying, 1100 hours. Have never had a need to pull up the pop-riveted baggage area or rear floor (even when rewiring the autopilot). Have broken/stripped a couple of screws/nutplates in the removable forward floor that needed replacing.

RV-6: 20 years of flying (not me, by any stretch!), 2400 hours. Regularly strip screws and have to replace nutplates in forward floor at annual. Baggage floor riveted down - have not had the need to remove.

And STILL - I am wondering if I am going to pop rivet or screw the floors down in the -3. Well, not really - we're going to pop rivet them - I just keep thinking about it until it is done.....

Paul

 

[LarryT]

Pop rivets

I had a Super Late Model stock car. Lots of removal and reinstallation (guess why?). I learned that with a pneumatic rivet gun, pop rivet removal and reinstallation was even faster than sheet metal screws.

LarryT

 

[pauldan181]

Cargo Spill

I put the floors down with pop rivets in my 8A because the only thing down there was my well protected battery cable and I'd never need access. Wrong. I had the cap blow off a bottle of engine oil and leak down under the baggage floor. I didn't discover this for several weeks and by then the oil slick was almost to the spar.

Pulling all the floors up wasn't too bad but the cleanup was a huge job because the oil had turned my primer into a gummy mess. If I ever have to pull the floors up again I will have wished I'd have used nutplates.

Paul Danclovic
Jamestown NC
RV-8A N181SB

 

[Ron Lee]

Nutplates & screws

I had to drill mine out to install a step. When the step cracked (not that uncommon), unscrewing it was much easier than drilling out pop rivets.

 

[Rick6a]

Notes from the Field

Mine have been riveted down for over 17 years....

SEVENTEEN years is a very long time to not lay a set of eyeballs on and inspect structure. From time to time I want to know if cracks are developing or if corrosion is or is not gaining a foothold.

..... It was a royal pain in the patootie. There were several areas on the flanges that drilling and setting nutplates was problematic because of access issues....

This sounds more like a lack of proper tools than anything else. Properly equipped, drilling and setting nutplates is childs play. As I mentioned on another thread, it took about 3 hours to drill for and install approximately 85 nutplates on the -8 floor but I do possess the correct tools.

I put the floors down with pop rivets in my 8A because the only thing down there was my well protected battery cable and I'd never need access. Wrong. I had the cap blow off a bottle of engine oil and leak down under the baggage floor....If I ever have to pull the floors up again I will have wished I'd have used nutplates.

I had to drill mine out to install a step. When the step cracked (not that uncommon), unscrewing it was much easier than drilling out pop rivets.

How about a spilled coffee or soft drink? You know how sticky and potentially corrosive that residue can be. Here are two examples where the builder did not anticipate removing the floors. Someone enlighten me. In the world of certificated aircraft, I am not aware of any airplane with its floors (or tips for that matter) pop riveted into place, in effect permanently closing up structure to future inspection. I know RV's are special but that special?

..Any strong opinions that I have not considered? Same agrument can be said of the seat floor panels.

Opinions will always vary. It's your airplane. Consider the pros and cons, then build to suit.

 

[Mel]

In the world of certificated aircraft, I am not aware of any airplane with its floors (or tips for that matter) pop riveted into place, in effect permanently closing up structure to future inspection.

Most all certificated aircraft that I have inspected have the floors riveted in place. There are inspection holes for inspection as in my RV-6.

 

[Ironflight]

Most all certificated aircraft that I have inspected have the floors riveted in place. There are inspection holes for inspection as in my RV-6.

Yup - the Grumman Yankee's baggage floor was riveted in place - had a couple of inspection holes to get at pushrod and cable connections.

I don't think the "argument" is so much that you will NEVER need to pull the floor - but that if you do, drilling out the soft pop rivets is just not that hard or tedious. I completely understand the point that you can't do it many times, as you'll enlarge the holes. The point of the "17 year" or "1100 hour" claims is that you just won't have to do it very often (if at all).

Paul

 

[Rick6a]

Yup - the Grumman Yankee's baggage floor was riveted in place - had a couple of inspection holes.....

Similarily, the floor of my old C-150 had inspection holes too. The point is that even with the floor permanently installed, visual access is still available. In RV's, there is no provision for inspection under the floor and you can easily say "there is nothing under there." Fair enough. The builder can either cover the underlying structure permanently, design and install inspection holes at key locations or simply make the whole thing removable which is considerably less labor intensive than modifying the floor by adding inspection holes.

Even though I did make the floors removable in my -6A, I still cut in a hole so I could access the ELT without removing an entire floor. Even then, notice in the picture there are not a whole lot of screws that fasten down any one floor panel because in the -6 series the baggage floor in designed in 3 sections counting the narrow centerline strip.

All any of us can do is offer opinion. As always, the final decision is the sole discretion of the builder. One of the remarkable things about VAF is we can make our case and let other's decide how to use that information prior to making decisions in meeting their own self-interest.

 

[deene]

As designed on my BD4 (which worked well for 22 years), I used sheet metal screws. Very easy and inexpensive...just don't get ham fisted on installation.

 

[LettersFromFlyoverCountry]

I put nutplates in and didn't find it the onerous job that others do. I wanted to keep an eye on the welded steps that attach under there as part of the regular inspection.

I also found it handy when I needed to put adel clamps in to bundle up the wires and trim cable that runs through the center section. Now maybe folks who riveted down haven't NEEDED to pull them up. I haven't NEEDED to pull mine up either. But it's just something that gave me the OPTION to do stuff.

Personally, I don't get all goosey about these sorts of questions -- primer, nosegear vs. tail draggers ec -- that others do. But for me it's a nice convenience to have.

YMMV

 

[N941WR]

Think light. Build light.

Use the pop rivets.

 

[Danny7]

Think light. Build light.

Use the pop rivets.

Rick's got that one beat also, he said he put in hundreds of them and still ended up with a very light plane. someone would probably put in much more weight in insulation and cosmetic cover panels/ upholstery than even 100 nutplates and screws

In addition, nutplates were extensively installed FWF to help attach one accessory after another. As you can see, free use of nutplates is an expression of who I am as a builder yet both my RV's came in at or UNDER average reported empty weights. From my POV, the "additional weight" bromide is entirely meaningless when compared against my real world operational experiences.

 

[jimbo]

Blind Rivets and inspection plates

Thanks for all who answered my original post.

I think I'll go with the blind rivets and one inspection/access hole for one of the bays on each side of the tunnel.

Jim
RV9A fuse

 

[8CW]

I'm not at that point yet but I'm close. I've always known that I would use nutplates due to past experience with a 60 yr old Luscombe. The gear box on that thing was a mess with no way to get in there to clean it out. The bottom side was open to the elements and the top was open to the interior. You could barely see in, but couldn't get access for cleaning. Then again, I'm the type that likes to pull out every screw that I can on annual anyway.

 

[Andy Hill]

Just to add a 3rd option

If you Pop Rivet the Baggage Floor, make some of the holes -8, or better, AN-3, nutplates, and screw in Adel Clamps as Baggage Tie Down rings...

Andy

 

[rv6rick]

On the RV10 the entire cabin area is what I refer to as 'double hulled'. There are a total of 8 large floor/seat/baggage skins that are popped riveted in place beginning at the firewall and ending at the rear baggage bulkhead....per Vans plans. The void between the skin(s) and the outside skin(s) ranges from ~1" to about ~10". I'm guessing that Van chose to follow the plans on his RV10? I'm on my 3rd RV10 and have yet to count the pop rivets but....it would take a LOT of platenuts to make the pans removable. That said....an inspection door/window never hurt anyone.

SEVENTEEN years is a very long time to not lay a set of eyeballs on and inspect structure.QUOTE]