jferraro17

jferraro17

Opulence, I has it...
The time has come where I MUST make a decision on the -8 vs the -8A.

I have ZERO tail wheel experience, but have been leaning that way from the begining. Short list of pros/cons:

Pro:
Grove airfoil gear
a new challange to learn
better CG management
no step installation
looks great

Con:
no experince (risk, insurance rates?)
don't plan extensive soft field flying
Texas winds
less leg room (towers)
no experience

Aside form the normal/expected ribbing resulting from this post, I am looking for real experience, arguments, regrets, etc. I have heard some tailwheel builders wish they had gone the other way after flying for a while...haven't heard it the other way around. That's why I'm asking.

To avoid instigating a war--and to solicit your TRUE feelings, you can reply to me at jferraro16 at yahoo.com or via private message here. That way NOBODY will know how you really feel about your decsion, or the advice you give...and you won't have to face the knuckleheads around here who will certainly pile on!

Thanks,
Joe
 
Go with your heart, Joe. I had zero TW time also when building my plane.

If you'd like to taxi Flash around 52F for thirty minutes or so you're more than welcome to (that's what Jay Pratt did to me...and it helped). You'll get completely comfortable (at least taxiing) in about five minutes.

b,
dr
 
Joe,
I only have about 500 tailwheel hours and probably like you I was concerned with the "can I really do this" thoughts.

I fly a RV8 and a Supercub and there is no safety issue. Just get enough conventional dual (duel) til you feel comfortable.
I fly in Kansas and cross winds are a non issue as long as the proper technique is applied.

Go for the taildragger!!
 
Just to clarify...

When I say "knuckleheads", it is a term of friendly kidding. NOT an insult as somebody who replied privately insinuated (not Mike S). I thought we all have fun here, ribbing, teasing, etc.

I was simply trying to prevent the typical, macho, "my tail wheel is bigger than yours" responses that this type of post/question generates. But alas, somebody took it the wrong way, so I apologize. It was not meant as an insult, and I think some people need to lighten up a bit...realize the written word can not aways be taken LITERALLY or at initial face value before firing off an emotional response.


Feel free to pile on me or anyone else who responds...geez.

Joe
 
jferraro16 said:
Just to clarify...

When I say "knuckleheads", it is a term of friendly kidding. NOT an insult as somebody who replied privately insinuated (not Mike S). I thought we all have fun here, ribbing, teasing, etc. Joe
Click to expand...

Joe, Probably 99% of the people have fun 99% of the time.

I know I sure do------------
 
Hi Joe!
I only had around 120hrs in a citabria when I flew my 8. I am super satisfied with my choice I had some questions about my choice,but after a excellent check out with Alex D it was a total non event. If you plan to fly on a regular basis you will find your skill and confidence will grow with every flight.
Either way you will love the 8, all the best!
 
Joe,

Check with Cam. He converted his -9A to a -9 and has been very happy with the switch. He told me that he knew he made a mistake making an "A" before he finished his Phase I.

Build the plane YOU want, not the plane other people want you to build.
 
i'm building a 7a, but if it was an 8, it'd have to be conventional gear for purely aesthetic reasons. somehow the side-by-sides look pretty good as tricycle (imho), but the tandems belong to be tail-draggers.
;)
 
Joe,
Push yourself learn a new skill. You will never regret it. You've already pushed youself to become a pilot, and your building a plane, which tells me right off that you don't back down from stuff just because it takes "effort". Tailwheel flying is a dieing art form, basically because it's a "little" harder than basic nose wheel flying. But so it flying any airplane WELL. You can do it.
At work, sometimes I can tell if my co-pilot is a tail wheel guy just by how he handles the airplane. Big airplanes are "safe" to land in a crab, and lots a guys do it. But it's still not the best way. If a guy gets into the flare and gently aligns the A/C with the runway just before touch down, I'd bet he has some champ time in his past. (more and more rare these days)
Build what fits your mission, but don't shy away from the tailwheel because it's seems hard. Get some Citabria time, or bum a ride in an 8. ****, c'mon out here and I'll show you myself. ;-) It's not hard, and the skills you learn will make you a better all around pilot.

DM
the above is just my opinion, and I could be wrong... <BG>

jferraro16 said:
The time has come where I MUST make a decision on the -8 vs the -8A.

I have ZERO tail wheel experience, but have been leaning that way from the begining. Short list of pros/cons:

Pro:
Grove airfoil gear
a new challange to learn
better CG management
no step installation
looks great

Con:
no experince (risk, insurance rates?)
don't plan extensive soft field flying
Texas winds
less leg room (towers)
no experience

Aside form the normal/expected ribbing resulting from this post, I am looking for real experience, arguments, regrets, etc. I have heard some tailwheel builders wish they had gone the other way after flying for a while...haven't heard it the other way around. That's why I'm asking.

To avoid instigating a war--and to solicit your TRUE feelings, you can reply to me at jferraro16 at yahoo.com or via private message here. That way NOBODY will know how you really feel about your decsion, or the advice you give...and you won't have to face the knuckleheads around here who will certainly pile on!

Thanks,
Joe
Click to expand...
 
jferraro16 said:
Just to clarify...

...When I say "knuckleheads", it is a term of friendly kidding. NOT an insult as somebody who replied privately insinuated (not Mike S). I thought we all have fun here, ribbing, teasing, etc...

Joe
Click to expand...

Not really sure who you were talking about since you didn't specify whether the knuckleheads flew with the wheel on the front or on the back...:rolleyes:

Please specify :D
 
Sounds like a personal problem to me

Texas Winds???

Is that what happens when you have too much Texas chili? :eek::D If so, I can see how your piloting abitlity would be affected. ;)

My Vote: Tailwheel!
 
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Push yourself a little bit

and you won't regret it. I too was nervous about moving to TW, shortly after my student days about 10 years ago and turned out to be a non-issue. Sure they are more difficult, but as someone said, we are a dying breed and of course we like to encourage more of you to try learning the older TW skills. It really does make you a better, crisper pilot.

Now, after all these years of flying cool stuff, because I have the endorsement and experience, I can't imagine not having gone the TW route. It opens you up to more possibilities.

Then there is personal preference - to me, an -8A just doesn't have the same appeal as an -8, but that's purely personal taste. Go with your heart. If you really like an -8 then go for it, but don't be hampered by a little bit of training.

Seriously the -8 is an easy taildragger - it basically handles on the ground like a Decathlon with better rudder authority.
 
For an "8", make it a tailwheel purely for looks. Tandem seating just looks better that way.

My 6A still looks a lot more substantial on the ground, than those squatting 6's do,..... ! :D

L.Adamson --- RV6A for practical reasons
 
Tailwheel for me

I initially ordered an RV-7A quickbuild kit at about the same time as I started getting tailwheel training. A few weeks later, I changed the order to an RV-7. A year and a half after that, I bought a flying RV-4 and learned for myself that tailwheel RVs are very easy to fly, land, launch, and taxi. There's no reason for the extra weight and drag of the nosewheel, IMHO. But, of course, to each his own.
 
RV7Factory said:
Texas Winds???

Is that what happens when you have too much Texas chili? :eek::D If so, I can see how your piloting abitlity would be affected. ;)

My Vote: Tailwheel!
Click to expand...



I guess I'm out as far as an invite to camp with you and Chad next year at OSH then?:eek::D

J
 
Landing in a crab

At work, sometimes I can tell if my co-pilot is a tail wheel guy just by how he handles the airplane. Big airplanes are "safe" to land in a crab, and lots a guys do it.
Click to expand...

Dennis, I read your statement above about big airplanes being safe to land in a crab and I'm going to have to respectfully disagree with you.
I was an instructor in the USAF C-130's and at the airlines in Boeings and not once did I ever hear anyone say it's OK to land in a crab. It may be safe, but that doesn't make it right. I will agree with you that it happens, but in my experience, it was almost always a fighter driver and that's evidently the way they did it.
Landing a big airplane, or any for that matter, in a crab is uncomfortable and IMHO show's just plain poor airmanship.
I really do agree also with you about being able to tell when someone had taildragger experience because they actually knew what a rudder pedal did.
As for the orginal post, build what you like and learn the proper way to handle it. You will really enjoy conventional geared planes.
 
Tailwheel

No question for me. Tailwheel. To me they are much more fun to fly, and look much better (IMO even in a side by side).

Dale Lambert
RV-6 finishing kit
 
jferraro16 said:
The time has come where I MUST make a decision on the -8 vs the -8A.

I have ZERO tail wheel experience, but have been leaning that way from the begining.
Click to expand...

Joe, go get an hour or 2 of dual in a TW. This is a big decision and it's worth spending a few (hundred) bucks. If you don't like it then at least you'll know. If you do like it then you'll have already started working towards your TW endorsement.

I was leaning towards a 7 instead of a 7a and it did not take much for me to decide on the 7. By the end of my first hour of dual in a citabria I knew that the 3rd wheel was going to be in the back. It wasn't like the cherokee and 172s that I learned to fly in, if you stop paying attention for even a second while its moving on the ground, it stops going straight. However, I was confident after a very short time that it was something I could learn how to handle.
 
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Go tailwheel. Take Doug up on his offer, it just might be the first step towards increasing your enjoyment of flying.

I owned a 6A for almost a year. It was a GREAT airplane, but as a previous tailwheel pilot the nosegear just didn't cut it for me. Luckily I was able to trade out of it and get back into a taildragger.

The RV taildraggers's aren't monsters. With a little training you'll do just fine.
 
Jerry,
I don't think we disagree here. The Boeings I flew were "OK" to land in a bit of a crab. Meaning they can handle it. (737, 747) Some third world airlines do it all the time because they don't know any other way... (no champs in China, bummer for them) The A/C is designed to take it. That said, You are correct, It's NOT the right way to fly a plane. It's a concession they had to make in designing the A/C. After all, they want to sell airframes to the rest of the world also. Don't try it on the MD-11 or DC-8 however, they don't like it. ;-) Gotta grow some feet on those A/C.
Your last sentance made me laugh out loud. ;-) I can't comment on that publically, because some of my "fighter pilot" pals look at this board too. (one can even READ it...) LOL Lets just say our experiences have common elements <BG>
Wish I could have an hour of touch and go's in the Herc. Looks like a blast to fly. Pop flew the first ones for the Marine Corps a long time ago.
Best
DM


RV8iator said:
Dennis, I read your statement above about big airplanes being safe to land in a crab and I'm going to have to respectfully disagree with you.
I was an instructor in the USAF C-130's and at the airlines in Boeings and not once did I ever hear anyone say it's OK to land in a crab. It may be safe, but that doesn't make it right. I will agree with you that it happens, but in my experience, it was almost always a fighter driver and that's evidently the way they did it.
Click to expand...
 
RV8iator said:
Dennis, I read your statement above about big airplanes being safe to land in a crab and I'm going to have to respectfully disagree with you.
I was an instructor in the USAF C-130's and at the airlines in Boeings and not once did I ever hear anyone say it's OK to land in a crab. It may be safe, but that doesn't make it right. I will agree with you that it happens, but in my experience, it was almost always a fighter driver and that's evidently the way they did it.
Landing a big airplane, or any for that matter, in a crab is uncomfortable and IMHO show's just plain poor airmanship.
Click to expand...

Jerry,

The B707 would drag a pod at 11-12 degrees of bank. The SOP at TWA was to fly the approach in a crab, flare and kick the machine straight just before touch down with wings level. They did not like the cost of repairing damaged outboard pods. Sometimes, on a dark rainy night with a half mile visibility and a 10-20 knot cross wind, the airplane would touch down in a crab and then be kicked straight. No big deal and not necessarily "plain poor airmanship". It was the reality of getting the job done under less than simulator training circumstances and not damaging the equipment. In fact, I am certain the FHP stated to do just that under difficult circumstances .

Beyond all that, this entire thread has an element of ego driven self delusion through it. There is absolutely nothing wrong with selecting an 8 rather than 8A, but do so knowing the facts. This is especially true for young pilots with no conventional gear experience. One place to start is to read Wolfgang Langewiesche's book "Stick and Rudder", and if you don't have the patience to read it all, do read Our Landing Gears are Wrong on page 309.

As was stated in the movie Battle of Britain by fellow pilots watching a bounced landing, "you can teach a monkey to fly these things". Safe flight is the result of good training more than anything else. It doesn't matter if it is instruments, aerobatics, formation or for that matter landing a tail dragger or a trike.

All that being equal, the tail dragger always presents a special challenge because of it's inherent design deficiency as so aptly stated by Mr. Wolfgang way back in 1944. Know what you dealing with before leaping. And never, ever forget that Charlie Hilliard and Ken Brock, 2 outstanding pilots, are no longer with us because of accidents directly related to tail wheel aircraft.

That being said, my next airplane, if I can a come up with a way to pay for it, will be an 8. :)
 
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