Jconard

Jconard

Well Known Member
Hello everyone!

I am vacillating between flying it naked, painting later, or painting it before final assembly.

What are the groups thoughts? Did anyone really make changes during test flight? How was it to assemble for those who painted first?

Really looking for experiences here.
 
Depends

Hi J,
If it's a 6 series airplane like ours, we painted it after phase one, in my hangar, fully assembled because the wings have 70 bolts attaching them!!! Lotsa trouble to take apart. On the 7, 8 and 9, they can be pretty easily disassembled for painting.

Most paint booths can't fit an assembled RV in or we would have landed next to the body shop friend of ours road (out in the country) to be painted.

If I do it over again, it would be painted first,

ps. Which model do you have?

Regards,
 
I flew mine bare for six months, and the only thing I did that would have affected paint was to repair a wheel pant after a flat tire. This is actually not that unusual, if you are trying to guess at how tight to make the wheel openings.

But there were no "changes" that would have messed up the paint. That said.....I'm glad I flew it as soon as I could!

Paul
 
An alternative method that I've seen is to paint the control surfaces and hard to access areas before assembly.

Later, when final paint is done, the control surfaces do not have to be removed and it's faster and easier.

V
 
I did mine in parts before final assembly. not a lot of advantage one way or the other, IMO. If you could assure that the bottom and hard to reach areas will be painted properly, then I might say go with after.
 
Paint first

Thats what my Wife insisted on and for good reason. I sold my last airplane after 7 years with no paint...Its real hard to take it down after its flying.

Secondly, how much do you want to spend...Yeah I know 7 grand is relatively small compared to the whole airplane but its still 7 grand!

With all the equipment (HF HVLP spray guns are remarkably good) I spent less than a thousand. i had never painted before and it came out superb. If your like me and enjoy gaining new skills then I highly recommend doing it yourself....Of course it took me 3 months...Yes THREE MONTHS!

I aslo disagree with the previous post that says the later model wings come off easy. If your building an RV7a believe me you will NEVER want to go through the wing mating process more than once in your lifetime...:)


I painted and it turns heads as I taxi to the runway...I'm happy

Frank
 
I am building a 7.

Because of the cost/chemicals, I am seriously considering rolling/tipping the paint..with AFS.

Alternatively, there are a number of body shops who would paint it economically in pieces.

I have heard 5-7 thousand to paint it complete.
 
I painted my -6 while it was in my garage. My Rocket is still not painted, although that will be fixed later this month.

In my opinion, the answer to your questions depends on just how particular you are on getting your airplane to fly straight. Few of these airplanes go together perfectly straight right out of the crate. There were some things I would have liked to fix on my -6, but couldn't get myself to cut into the paint. On the Rocket, I've had it apart a dozen times just tweaking little things. It now flies just the way I want it to, and I didn't have to worry about scratching up the paint.
 
We had our 9A painted by a body shop while still in pieces. I think it was a good plan. I NEVER want to pull the wings and I didn't like the idea of the chance that oil would get in a joint and not be completely removed, causing a weak area in the paint. As to costs, I settled for one color and added the second/third in vinyl to save painting costs. The shop did all the metal prep, I did the fiberglass. Prep/shooting was $1750, paint around $1000 and vinyl about $125 (I have a computerized cutter.) I don't think this added significantly to our time-to-fly and now that it's done, it's done!

Bob Kelly
 
I have an RV-8 (tailwheel) and hope I never have to take the wings off. I used a dry lube on the main spar bolts and still had to drive them in. I painted in pieces and don't regret it. I certainly wouldn't want to paint the belly and bottom of the wings by spraying up.

In general I would say:
a) paint first and in pieces if your doing it yourself.
b) fly first if your going to have it painted professionally.

Karl
 
Jconard said:
How do you paint the belly without spraying up? I knwo probably a dumb question, but....
Click to expand...
Unassembled, you could rig up the fuselage to roll in a rack for painting. Or tip it onto it's nose (conventional gear) and at least get somewhat of an angle. If I paint another, I'll probably make a rig to roll the fuse . Painting upside down was not good/fun. Ended up thin in some spots and heavy in a few.

Assembled, you just have to shoot upside down, AFAIK.
 
Low Pass said:
Unassembled, you could rig up the fuselage to roll in a rack for painting. Or tip it onto it's nose (conventional gear) and at least get somewhat of an angle. If I paint another, I'll probably make a rig to roll the fuse . Painting upside down was not good/fun. Ended up thin in some spots and heavy in a few.

Assembled, you just have to shoot upside down, AFAIK.
Click to expand...

That's right. I tried to make a support out of an engine stand but when I bolted it to the firewall, it felt too flimsy. I got several big guys to help me roll it over. Sat it on the canopy rails and the flat area that the horiz. stab. bolts too. I sprayed the belly and over the belly/side skin interface. After the paint cured, I flipped it back over, masked off the belly at the skin interface and painted the top and sides. Turned out pretty good and I didn't have to lay on my back and spray up.
 
Fly First

I flew for over a year with the plane not painted. You need to be completely uninhibited about fixing what needs to be fixed then when you have it right, paint it or have it painted. You may not have any problems but if you don't paint first it is not a factor in your fix or not fix decision. To an extent the flight test program takes on an overriding cosmetic preservation interest. You will be reluctant to even remove the cowl unless there is an undeniable problem.

I had rivets in the lower cowl holding the hinge half that had to be drilled out and replaced with larger diameter rivets. I had a large burn in the lower cowl that converted the face skins and honeycomb to carbon. I had to add the common rudder wedge to center the ball in cruize. I had fuel leaks that required removal of all four tanks. I had the canopy release handle hit the windshield bow fiberglass before I tapered it to clear when pointed forward. An oil leak (my fault) necesitated the removal and overhaul of the engine. There are probably more things that would be devistating to a new owner of a show paint job.

If you paint first you will never know the feeling of flying the basic plane that you built without its makeup. When I moved my RV-6A from California to Arkansas following retirement, I was stuck at Amarillo International by weather. Finally, a breif escape window opened when the overcast lifted to to 1,100 ft AGL and we took off turning east. I will never forget to feeling of moving across the countryside at low altitude, high speed, bubble canopy, and looking out at the functional aluminum wings of my plane.

The clear coated paint job was done by Gray's Aircraft Refinishers in Ozark, Arkansas in Imron with clear coat and there have been absolutely no problems in the following year and a half of flying.

Bob Axsom
 
Bob,

Would you mind sharing any other alterations that you recall from your test period?

Your post echoes some of my thoughts about flying it naked. On the other hand, I have spent alot of time trying to anticipate and avoid other more common issues that builders have had.

I am particularly interested in the burned cowl....what caused it, and how you cured the issue.

Just trying to get field experience here, and to be honest, the cost savings of painting initially is attractive...Body shops will do the pieces for somewhere around $2K.

Also, if anyone has experience with the AFS line and rolling/tipping it onto metal aircraft, it would be greatly appreciated. I have seen it rolled and tipped onto fabric, and it was impressive in terms of finish.
 
Jconard said:
How do you paint the belly without spraying up? I knwo probably a dumb question, but....
Click to expand...
Like This . . .



This stand will rotate the fuselage 360 deg. so you can just stand next to it while the belly is rotated to the top and spray away! :)
 
Jconard said:
Also, if anyone has experience with the AFS line and rolling/tipping it onto metal aircraft, it would be greatly appreciated. I have seen it rolled and tipped onto fabric, and it was impressive in terms of finish.
Click to expand...
I have used the AFS line of primer and paint with good results, but spraying
it with a HVLP gravity gun.

If you're the Jconard that lives in the twin cities area, I can provide you with
some of their primer and paint to experiment with.

Paul Danclovic
Carver MN
8A final assy.
 
Burned Cowl

Jconard said:
Bob,

Would you mind sharing any other alterations that you recall from your test period?

Your post echoes some of my thoughts about flying it naked. On the other hand, I have spent alot of time trying to anticipate and avoid other more common issues that builders have had.

I am particularly interested in the burned cowl....what caused it, and how you cured the issue.
QUOTE]

The burned cowl occurred primarily because the timing was set wrong by Lycoming on my brand new engine with LASAR ignition as delivered from the factory with the test cell run report. When I had the problem I called Lycoming for some product support and the first words out of the representative's mouth before I described the problem were "It's out of warantee." I couldn't care less about the lack of warantee I wanted to get the engine working properly and avoid dying in an engine out crash enroute between the Chino airport and the designated test area. It was solved by me buying a LASAR Timing test tool from Van's ($300 to $400 as I recall) and setting the timing correctly. I also had to do a lot of fiberglass work on the cowl to repair it of course. The setting from the factory was 85 degrees before top dead center of the top of the compressin stroke for cylinder #1 and it should have been 25 degrees. I also cut a significant piece off of the end of the Vetterman exhaust pipe coming out of cylinder #2 and shortened the coupling link to provide more air gap between the crossover exhaust pipe at the bend below cylinder #2 and the cowl.

One thing I did not mention earlier was the minor (because it wasn't painted yet) damage to the nose gear fairing the first time the breakout force decayed and I got the "Oh my God the tire is blown" shakey ride with too small a gap between the nose tire and the fairing. I fixed that by trimming away the damage, enlarging the opening around the tire and retorquing the the nose gear fork installation nut.

Bob Axsom
Click to expand...
 
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I painted mine in pieces before final assembly at the airport. I would do it that way again.

Here are some of my reasons for painting before first flight, as opposed to after Phase 1.

First, once you get it flying, you won't enjoy the downtime.

Second, why go through the final assembly process twice? It takes a fair amount of work to pull the flight surfaces, fairings, etc. and then re-attach all of 'em. Why go through all of that work an extra time?

Third, I rarely hear of anyone having to make serious modifications after their first flight which would require repainting a substantial portion of the airframe.

Fourth, you'll have at least a little oil/exhaust residue on the belly and more fingerprints on all of the areas you primed during construction. All of those things point to more cleaning/prep work than if you painted it before you flew.

The bottom line is that either way works. Painting first should be less overall work. Flying first lets you fly earlier <duh!>...
 
A decision made

Right or wrong, we have decided to paint both the planes we are finishing prior to first flight.

We want this paint to stick well before contaminents (oil, fuel, etc) could possibly find its way to rivit lines and such.

Pat Garboden
Ozark, MO building in Wichita, KS with Todd Wiechman
RV9-A 942WG (reserved) slider
RV9-A 942PT (reserved) tip-up
 
Painting the underside of a RV is super easy. All you need is a creeper and a pressure fed paint gun. The bottom is actually easier to paint than the sides. I've painted several planes in peices and I much prefer a plane to be in one peice. Minus the flight controls of course. Nothing makes a better wing holder than the fuselage.
 
Paul,

I do live in Woodbury, and I appreciate the offer. I can't place your name, perhaps we met at one of the club meetings or at a Steinair seminar. Or you are the guy who works at Steinair, and I just don't know your last name.

Thanks everyone for the perspective...I had talked the wife into paying for a professional job once the test flying was done...but as with all things plane related, I think she is getting chronic sticker shock, so little ways to save money are important.
 
Well Then ...

Don't paint until you have the money. Both of you are happy and if it flies as good as I think it will she may come around to the professional paint job. Once you have the plane flying you are not restricted to local painters who may not be the best or most reasonable. My three color paint job with the design on the lower surfaces as well as the top, with all cleaning, priming, layout to very specific requirements, other preparations, color paint and clear coat Imron with a very specific contract ran around $8,000. Worth every penny and then some. With single color and no clear coat you should be able to get it down into the $5,000 range and that can be put off until you can swing it. If you read Sport Aviation you will see one of their noted writers recently completed his RV-8 and painted it with rattle cans. If I did that as an interim measure I would paint the plastic and leave the aluminum bare.

Bob Axsom
 
Keep in mind that if you paint it yourself and are not happy with the results it will cost you a lot more to have a pro strip and repaint your plane. A good 3 color paint job should cost about $5500 to $6500. If you have to strip an old job first add $2k.
 
Here's some words of advice:

When you take your plane to be painted professionally, ensure that they've painted a new (unpainted) airplane before.

I took mine to a shop that did a lot of helicopter and some fixed-wing repainting, and they had a lot of trouble with paint bubbling on seams.

Although they made good by repainting, they thought there was some contamination due to sealant or silicones-- neither of which I used on the seams.

After much investigation, I have determined that it was moisture. After etch & alodine, they did not let the aircraft dry out under the heaters for very long before painting (a few hours). My theory is that the water, which crept into the seams via capillary action, did not have time to evaporate.

When the paint was applied, it created heat when curing, causing the moisture to bubble the surface.

They had never experienced this problem before... why? My guess is that when an airframe is stripped, the seams are all sealed by the old paint, and not much moisture can creep in. Thus, the normal drying time allows the water to totally evaporate.

I tested this theory on some feather-lite body filler on a patch I made on some e-glass. I applied a thick coat of catalized paint, and I got surface bubbling. The polyester filler absorbs moisture, and unless totally dry and sealed (with a primer on both sides), the moisture will cause paint bubbling.

Ultimately, I think the paint shop needed to bake the aircraft much longer after washing. Instead, they spent the time repainting!

Vern
 
frankh said:
I aslo disagree with the previous post that says the later model wings come off easy. If your building an RV7a believe me you will NEVER want to go through the wing mating process more than once in your lifetime...:)


I painted and it turns heads as I taxi to the runway...I'm happy

Frank
Click to expand...


Let's see a picture Frank.
 
For what it's worth, I sent everything out for paint a little over a week ago.......except the fuse (gotta finish the wiring). My thinking was, and is, the airplane has been flown by so many people for so long major changes will no be required. Also, I didn't want fuel, grease, grim, exhaust all stuck in and around the skin overlap areas to cause any problems with paint in those areas. Right, wrong I think it is now merely a personnal preference and nothing more. We'll see, I may have my head stuck up so far it's dark, but that's my story and I'm sticking too it:)
 
After washing a RV to get ready for paint it should over night. Baking is not really needed. Myself, I like to wash a plane on a friday so it has the weekend to dry. So far I've painted over 50 RVs.
 
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