[BlackRV7]

Since I am new to this tailwheel thing and might get the chance to try grass next week (easy now....) I have got the ask this question. On pavement, I do the "release back pressure" to plant the mains. This just seemed WRONG when I was learning, as in "prop strike", but it turns out to actually work, imagine that!! With that said, grass has got to provide more braking action than pavement so the question is: on initial main touchdown is it just going to be less release of back pressure or is the grass going to help so as to just about relieve the use of relieving the back pressure on the stick....if that makes any sense.

Looking forward to trying grass........way out of my college days..............sorry, couldn't resist

 

[BuckWynd]

With that said, grass has got to provide more braking action than pavement so the question is: on initial main touchdown is it just going to be less release of back pressure or is the grass going to help so as to just about relieve the use of relieving the back pressure on the stick....if that makes any sense.

Grass provides LESS braking action than a paved surface. But braking action doesn't really come into play during the touchdown phase of a landing. I think what you're actually thinking about is the "give" that a grass surface provides. A softer surface can often absorb a bit of the bounce (or gear springback) that a paved runway cannot, which makes it generally easier to learn on grass. Grass is also more forgiving of a slight sideslip at touchdown, when you haven't quite aligned the airplane with the direction of flight.

On the other hand, grass runways are rarely perfectly level, so there might be more of a risk that you'll experience a slight hop or skip because of surface irregularities.

So it probably averages out. In an RV, landing on either surface becomes a non-event pretty quickly.

Have fun!

 

[grantcarruthers]

I prefer 3-point on grass to avoid the skipping from waviness and also most grass fields are remarkably rough and bouncy. 3-point=less bouncing jouncing and beating of the plane 2nd to lower speed and energy IMHO.

I haven't found a grass field yet that I would call smooth compared to paved. I like grass fields, just wouldn't call'em smooth or want to touch down any faster than required. I like wheel landings on paved BTW. Just for the fun of trying to be a real pilot and finess it on.

Just one meager opinion, YMMV

 

[n5lp]

Grass provides LESS braking action than a paved surface. But braking action doesn't really come into play during the touchdown phase of a landing...

That all could be it. Braking action is less on grass and drag is more but I think he is thinking about a different effect. When you do a wheel landing on pavemen,t as you touch you feel a little deceleration on the airplane because the good friction coefficient spins the tires up quickly and the tires have quite a bit of inertia. In addition to the deceleration, the braking effect at the tires imparts a little bit of nose down force. Since the tires will spin up more slowly on grass due to lower coefficient of friction the braking effect and nose down force will be spread out enough to be way less noticeable.

But having said that, maybe we are overthinking and really just need to try it. I never have. Please report back.

 

[BlackRV7]

I guess I misspoke in the original post. In no way am I referring to braking in the landing, I am referring to drag. Will there be noticeably more drag from the grass so as to require less forward pressure on the stick to nail the mains on initial touchdown? Just wanting to know what to expect when the mains touch. I like wheel landing much more than three pointers.

 

[Sam Buchanan]

I guess I misspoke in the original post. In no way am I referring to braking in the landing, I am referring to drag. Will there be noticeable more drag from the grass so as to require less forward pressure on the stick to nail the mains on initial touchdown? Just wanting to know what to expect when the mains touch. I like wheel landing much more than three pointers.

Dana, it has been my experience (RV-6, scads of grass field landings, three-point and wheelies) that you land your plane the same way on a good grass field as you would on pavement. Don't over-think the landing, let the instincts you have learned kick in and you will be fine. I suggest you not try any "grass field techniques", just land the plane. You will come to love grass field operations.

 

[174Bob&Nancy]

Wefly our 7 off of 2000 ft of grass and use the same technique on hard surfaces or grass,on the grass we keep holding more forward pressure as we slow down which helps keep it planted as our field is not perfectly flat either,but grass is lots of fun!

 

[hngrflyr]

I learned consistantly good wheel landings on grass just after buying my Cessna 120 in 1970. I just went out by myself and did it. The drag from the grass acts to reduce the angle of attack as the wheels touch the ground, reducing the tendancy of the airplane to bound back into the air. It works in same in my RV-6 as it did in the Cessna.

With the RV-6's smaller tires, you need to take care not to let the tail come up too much if the grass is deeper than you thought.

 

[allbee]

First off on a wheel landing you want 0 lift as you touch down, how? Some of my tricks are to increase speed over the 3 point by about 5 to 10mph. Next you bring it down and then as you begin to touch you want to take the stick and move it forward and backward with the center of that being your attack angle(small movements). This will put you down on the touch real gentle, then as you touch you want to release or sometimes put in forward stick to plant the mains. If the sod is hilly than you need to follow the hills with the stick, can be tricky. You will also balloon a lot easier when hitting holes or hills, so be ready to do a go around or if you have room convert to a three point, when converting to a 3 point you must keep the stick steady and maybe put in a little throttle, don't give in to the erge to pull back on the stick or you will stall and fall to the runway, not good.

 

[N941WR]

Dana,

The others have given you some very good advice.

My $.02 worth of wisdom is I never, never, never do wheel landings on grass.

If there was a grass field that I personally mowed, I might do it.

The reason is simple, there is always a possibility of a pothole on a grass field caused by gophers, dogs, sink hole, Bubba and his hickup truck spinning the tires, or whatever. A surprisingly small divot can cause you to either flip over or ground loop.

For this reason I always three point grass strips at the slowest possible airspeed. In other words, full stall landings on grass for me, sometimes with power for very soft fields. Your instructor will show you what he/she wants.

 

[flyeyes]

Since I am new to this tailwheel thing and might get the chance to try grass next week (easy now....) I have got the ask this question. On pavement, I do the "release back pressure" to plant the mains. This just seemed WRONG when I was learning, as in "prop strike", but it turns out to actually work, imagine that!! With that said, grass has got to provide more braking action than pavement (snip)

While you are learning, you owe it to yourself to read Wolfgang Langeweische's classic book "Stick and Rudder"

He specifically talks about wheel landings on grass (writing in an era when that was the norm) and points out that if you touch down gently using power and trim you will automatically pitch forward slight when the mains touch and you can land without touching the yoke. I was skeptical but he's right.

I routinely make "tail low" wheel landings on grass in my -8, using more or less the same technique I do on pavement. I think the little "push" to stick the mains is a little gentler, and you have to be ready for a little skip or two if the runway is bumpy, as grass tends to be.