Lionclaw

Lionclaw

Well Known Member
I've been tinkering with this panel model for quite a while now. I just can't seem to make it look "right". Original plan was to leave the right side empty for a second screen, but now I'm considering a map box. Hole on the left is for pushbutton starter, two holes above are for mag/ei toggles, two holes on right are for 12v plugs and single hole on right is for cabin heat.

My first instinct is to move the skyview up a tad and put the second row of switches there. But then I have extra space below the transponder.

I've scavenged the "Show us your panel" threads several times for ideas, but I can't come up with anything that will give me the warm fuzzy feeling for my panel.

Anyone have any ideas?

panel_1.jpg
 
I suggest

moving the EFIS up and placing all the switches along the bottom of the panel. easier to find and you can put the power distribution switches to the left and the device switches to the right as I have done below...

IMG_4204.JPG
 
The panel is where we have a lot of choices, and its what customizes the plane for us, so to each his own.... but since you asked:

1 Are you really sold on that radio? An SL40 would match up nicely with the transponder and give a more traditional stack look

2 Consider losing the RPM steam gauge - assuming you have engine monitoring capabilities on the EFIS/PFD. I Dont really see that as a critical backup instrument. Should be able to get engine time on the EFIS as well, no?

3 Consider a Garmin X96 GPS in an AirGizmo mount, maybe at the top of the stack - I like having some GPS backup, especially if it can run off batteries as well as ships power. Can also display a multitude of flight parameters that can come in handy. GPS will track engine time as well provided you turn it on for every flight

But thats just me : )

erich
 
Are you looking for comments on what is in the panel or the layout? I guessing your mission is purely day VFR.

The issues that seem to provide most furstration to day VFR pilots are getting lost and not being able to talk to someone. I would install a back-up GPS in the centre of the panel (so the passenger can use it), a tried and trusted radio, such as an SL-40, and an audio panel. The MGL radio may be fantastic, but until its got some history behind it I wouldn't install one as my sole radio. I also don't see the need for a tacho.

As for layout, I would put the EFIS as high in the panel as possible and separate out the switches - 14 together is too many to reliably get the right switch every time - 5 in one line is probably a good maximum. Think about the operations you will use several times a flight - fuel pump, flaps - and put them close to the throttle. Put the others further away so you can knock them when you don't mean to. If you're going to be pushing buttons on the EFIS a lot then don't put switches close to EFIS buttons.

I think your layout is pretty good as it stands. Standbys next to the EFIS is a good idea if you need to cross-compare. Above all its is your panel, so do what you want.

Pete
 
Here are my thoughts:


1. Some sort of music. Ipod mount, xm radio, cd player, something.
2. Are you going to use fuses or breakers, if breakers then you need a spot for them.
3. Are you using the radio for an intercom? If not, you will need to add one of those.
4. This is obviously not an IFR panel, so there really isn't a need for the steam guages unless you find them easier to use, but at that point it might make more sense to use a basic steam guage panel and a portable gps.
5. Have you used the dynon skyview and find the navigation to work well? Most efis systems have poor maps compared to a garmin which is why most people add a garmin portable. I've never used a skyview so I don't know.

Overall I agree with Erich, using a Airgizmos 495 mount on top of a garmin radio and the transponder will give you a more traditional radio stack which would 'look' much nicer, but what you have is pretty good bang for the buck.
 
My $.02 worth

Get rid of the tach. If your EMS goes out, you will be able to get home.

Move the ELT control out of the way. Like way over on the right side. You will still be able to reach if, if needed. However, since you don't need it in regular flight, get it out of the main panel. Maybe put it where the Tach is.

Switch placement is very important. Spend some time figuring out where you want them and in what sequence they should be in.
 
Move the 12 V outlets down to the bottom, or the cord that you plug in those sockets will hang down over the panel. Unless you're upside down at the time. :D

Also, the comment about the intercom is good. Nice to have. How about the panel connections for the ANR headset power, which are often these days not 12 V outlets, but standard connections:
http://www.lightspeedaviation.com/content.cfm/Products/Zulu

See the section on "connections," especially the LEMO connector.

David Paule
 
I like the airspeed/altimeter where they are. Should you lose the EFIS, that location seems optimal.

A few months ago I lost my airspeed (steam gauge) approaching an airport. Flew by the seat of my pants/inherent superior skill. OK, I did switch from the short runway to the long one and carried extra speed on final, but it was a non-issue.
 
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Ron Lee said:
I like the airspeed/altimeter where they are. Should you lose the EFIS, that location seems optimal.
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Ron,

That is the same location as mine and you are right, it works great in that location. The parking brake is located by the AS indicator on purpose, so I see it before the takeoff run and make sure it is not set.



You will also notice the fuel "pump on light" above the EFIS, that is a great place to remind you to either turn it off or on. The only problem with this LED is that it is a bit bright for night operations.

As for the power for the ANR headsets. I recently added that plug just below the headset jacks so all three plugs are very close together. (You can't see it in this picture.)
 
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Does the new Dynon Talk to the older EFIS D100?
A display in front of the co-pilot would be nice, better than looking
across the panel for flight info.

My other 2 cents, I'd keep the display up as high as possible, that way the distance of your scan is minimal.

Don't forget the heated seats.
 
Pretty much what others have said:

* Align ASI and ALT so the top/bottom align with top/bottom of EFIS. As others have mentioned, backup ALT is overkill for day VFR.
* Consider SL40 for COMM and align to top of EFIS.
* Think very carefully about switches. The most central placement makes sense to me since you'll be (presumably) flying with your left hand and right is free to work throttle and electrical gizmos.

TODR
 
the_other_dougreeves said:
...* Consider SL40 for COMM and align to top of EFIS...
TODR
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Better yet, consider an iCom A200 or A210. They have three mono audio inputs that allow you to connect the Dynon to the intercom. Which brings up one thing, where is your intercom?

If I were building today, I would seriously think about skipping my stereo intercom and install the Gramin GMA-240 audio panel. For $400 additional you get so much more for your money. Then the radio wouldn't matter.
 
N941WR said:
If I were building today, I would seriously think about skipping my stereo intercom and install the Gramin GMA-240 audio panel. For $400 additional you get so much more for your money. Then the radio wouldn't matter.
Click to expand...

Also, the new PS Engineering PMA-5000EX was released to compete against the GMA-240. Very close price points, but the PMA-5000EX gives you auto squelch.
 
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Wow, some really great responses :D

My goal is day/night VFR, although I don't plan on doing much flying at night. It's tough finding the best compromise between features and $$$, as I'm sure most of us here know. If $$$ were less of an issue (possible future panel upgrade?) I'd have dual skyviews, a gma240, sl30, and a 430w.

The three main components, skyview, v10 com, and gtx327 were chosen because they seem to be a good value in terms of $$$ vs features. I tried the v10's intercom at Osh and I really like it. I considered the sl40, but the additional cost plus the cost of an audio panel made me go with the v10. Agreed though, asthetics would favor the nice central radio stack.

I'm a little torn on the mechanical tach. The main reason I wanted it was to keep track of engine hours. I realize the skyview can do that for me instead. I've got to think it over a bit, but I suppose I could eliminate it or replace it with a VSI.

I have a PDA/GPS I plan to keep in the plane as a backup, otherwise I may eventually pickup a used 395/495 unit.

Rudi sent me a symmetrical layout which I like a lot better. (hope you don't mind me posting it)

panel_try.jpg


I'll tinker with the model a bit more and post back for another review :)
 
John Courte said:
I thought you were going to do a MGL Odyssey. What made you change your mind?
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Timing. No doubt the new Odyssey will be shipping long before I'm off the ground, but I was really waiting on the new Odyssey graphics upgrade. The skyview caught my attention a while back, but I thought I'd be buying sooner and it would be coming out much later.

Much of my FWF is done, and I had to pick one so I could start dealing with probes/sensors and wiring.
 
Ahhh....Symmetry!

You have gotten many comments on your choice of equipment, and it looks like you are taking the right things into consideration. The one thing I saw from your original design was obviously the same thing that Rudi saw - a lack of symmetry. It might sound trivial, but when people look at panels and go "Gee, that looks nice!" it is usually because there is some sort of symmetry in the design. Danny King pointed that out to me, so if you disagree, you can blame it on him....

(BTW, I'd ditch the mechanical tach based on the reason you gave for it - any EFIS this day will keep track of your hours - or you can put in a simple Hobbs...

Paul
 
David Paule said:
Move the 12 V outlets down to the bottom, or the cord that you plug in those sockets will hang down over the panel. Unless you're upside down at the time. :D
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Horizontally along the bottom of the panel, or underneath the panel? I was thinking these would be mainly used for phone/pda chargers, and it would be nice to keep the cables out of the way.
 
akschu said:
Here are my thoughts:


1. Some sort of music. Ipod mount, xm radio, cd player, something.

My wife and I have headphones with a 3.5mm input. The extra cable will probably be annoying, but unless I buy a stereo intercom I'm not sure what other choices I have.

2. Are you going to use fuses or breakers, if breakers then you need a spot for them.

Flip down fuse panel on passenger side.

3. Are you using the radio for an intercom? If not, you will need to add one of those.

Yes, v10 intercom, for now.

4. This is obviously not an IFR panel, so there really isn't a need for the steam guages unless you find them easier to use, but at that point it might make more sense to use a basic steam guage panel and a portable gps.

I wanted to have a basic set of intruments I'd be comfortable wiht if the glass were to fail. I guess this is just a personal comfort issue.

5. Have you used the dynon skyview and find the navigation to work well? Most efis systems have poor maps compared to a garmin which is why most people add a garmin portable. I've never used a skyview so I don't know.

This is a huge unknown for me. I have the skyview, and I've powered it up and played with it, but the mapping software isn't out yet. So there is certainly some risk associated with my decision so far on the GPS.

Overall I agree with Erich, using a Airgizmos 495 mount on top of a garmin radio and the transponder will give you a more traditional radio stack which would 'look' much nicer, but what you have is pretty good bang for the buck.
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The RV-12 guys are lucky! There's so much stuff to think about on the other models.
 
I think you have too much redundant information (clutter) in front of you, and glass is allways crowded. Basically two sets of all instruments (alt, speed, RPM). The glass screen is all you need, the other instruments can be set to the right.

Or if you plan to use the steamgauges, place those in front, and the glass to the right (for map mostly).

I assume this is VFR.
 
The panel is cut! I wanted to post a quick followup. I liked the modified layout Rudi sent me, so I went that route. I made up a test panel to check the fit of everything. All was good, so I cut the panel blank last night and it came out great.

Instruments/Avionics: ASI, Altimeter, VSI, MGL V10 , GTX327, 10" Skyview, ACK 406 ELT (if it would just ship already!)

Switches: Master, Alt, Avionics Master, Left Ign, EI, Autopilot, Cabin Lights, Strobes, Position Lights, Landing Lights, Flaps, Fuel Pump

The panel isn't perfect, but I think it will do just fine for my needs. Having the panel CADed up and having the CNC router will hopefully make future upgrades a painless process. For now, that big empty space on the right hand side looks like it'd be a great place to mount one of the many different tablet products that will soon be coming out :)

If anyone wants my CAD layout you can download it here: http://www.comptonsoft.com/rv9/N643AC_panel.dwg


002.JPG



007.JPG
 
Nice Job Andy! Did you build the router yourself? If so, well done....isn't it fun to have a toy like that around?!? Did you design it yourself or use a set of plans?

Anyway, I like your end result much better than where you started out. You owe Rudi a beer! :)

Cheers,
Stein
 
Thanks Stein. I definitely owe Rudi. I still can't believe that he not only took the time to think up a better layout, but he went and laid it out for me too!

The CNC is an awesome tool. I designed and built it, with many of the ideas coming from features I saw on other machines on CNCZone. It's my third homebuilt machine, and I'm already thinking about #4 :D My first machine was built from free plans by JGRO on CNCZone. I designed and built the second machine, which I called the Lionclaw LC50A. The third and current machine is a refined version of the second. I sold kits online for a while, but haven't had time to make any in the last couple of years with the airplane eating up all of my time.
 
Lionclaw said:
Thanks Stein. I definitely owe Rudi. I still can't believe that he not only took the time to think up a better layout, but he went and laid it out for me too!

The CNC is an awesome tool. I designed and built it, with many of the ideas coming from features I saw on other machines on CNCZone. It's my third homebuilt machine, and I'm already thinking about #4 :D My first machine was built from free plans by JGRO on CNCZone. I designed and built the second machine, which I called the Lionclaw LC50A. The third and current machine is a refined version of the second. I sold kits online for a while, but haven't had time to make any in the last couple of years with the airplane eating up all of my time.
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Do you use a ps handcontrol to operate the CNC?! :D
 
I went thru many revisions of my panel to get it to look just right. Look many times at the certified panels because you will notice different things each time you look. The certified panels define that "aviation look" because the designers have a lot of years in the field so know the history, ergonomics, and reasons thijngs are done a certain way. I suggest the three backup gauges- air speed, altimeter, attitude- either veritically to the side or horizontal below the EFIS. Trutrak makes a nice attitude, and your can get aviation looking 2.25" now without paying a ton of money. Radio stacks are an aviation look, so change your com to an SL40 and locate above the transponder in the stack. Also consider an audio panel in the stack to make the stack a little beefier. GPS redundancy would be nice- different operating system, hardware- so maybe get a Garmin gps if it interfaces to the Dynon, and it will make your stack look deeper. Change your switches to the lighted rocker style and place below the radio stack and extending to the right not the left. The flow is the key to getting the panels to look good so think scan and where your hands will be during all phases of flight. Hang in there and nice job, you've got good instincts!
 
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