B

Bob Hoffman

Well Known Member
Anyone know if Charlie & Gamut Services are still in operation ?
I sent them a check in July for their tilt stiffner retro kit.Seems like a nice enough guy,spoke with him several times ,each time was a different story , last time it was in the mail - that was two weeks ago .Now I can't even reach him on the phone. If they are no longer in business I would like to know so I can get on with my building , right I've got my canopy off and waiting for
this kit to arrive. A shame really as it looks like a good retro kit that would help aleviate twisting that is prone to "tilts"
Sooooo if anyone knows what is going on I would appreciate an update.
Surf & Fly
Bob
 
Gamut services, BUYER BEWARE

Bob, and others.

I do not know if Gamut Services is still in business or not. I ordered one of the composite canopies and almost 3 months later have not recieved it or a refund that I demanded. No answers to emails, no answers to phone calls lately. Before that lots of promises that were always broken with convincing stories.

If you wan't to hear more about this in sordid detail, contact me at: [email protected] or call 907-344-4401

Mike Ice
 
YES,
That is what happened to me too.
The stories were entertaining - for awhile - but the kit, or my money back, or even an explination would have been appreciated.
Sorry you had the same experience,if you hear any other news please keep me posted
Bob
 
Same guy....

Is this the same guy who advertised a Tucson workshop?

From a local yahoo mailing list....

> > The day will start at 8:30 and end when we all get tired of making things
> > sometime late afternoon.
> >
> > Cost: $75 for the 6 hour day
> > Date and time: November 11 at 8:30
> > Place: Ryan Field (KRYN), Cherokee Cabanas, Hangar C-16.
> >
> > Advanced reservations required by 11/1 please: Contact Charles Wilhite,
> > 817-832-1178 or [email protected]

If so, he is is planning on being here in Tucson soon..... :)

gil in Tucson
 
gamut same guy

Gil,

That would be the same fellow. The name and phone numbers match. I sure do hope your function turned out better than my deal with him did. I am out $3,400 and no canopy. :eek:

Mike Ice
 
Same guy.

Hey Mike,
Bet its cold in Anchorage about now.. Very nice in Tucson this time of year..
 
COLD

Yep, it is very cold in Anchorage this time of year and yes I do wish I were in Tucson not just today but all winter. This morning it was ZERO degrees. Bright and sunny but very cold. :eek:

You guys have it made with all that great RV flying and building weather.

Mike
 
Mike,
Did you notice the other thread on his carbon fiber canopy here on VAF ??
Gil,
Yes it's the same guy. Did you pay for this in advance ?? If so you better check BEFORE going.If you are going to call 817-832-1178 don't expect an answer.
Just a heads up - good luck
Bob
 
Not me...

Bob Hoffman said:
Mike,
Did you notice the other thread on his carbon fiber canopy here on VAF ??
Gil,
Yes it's the same guy. Did you pay for this in advance ?? If so you better check BEFORE going.If you are going to call 817-832-1178 don't expect an answer.
Just a heads up - good luck
Bob
Click to expand...

No, I'm not dealing with him... but another local builder has one of his canopies with a fit problem... I think that is why he is coming here. This builder has the canopy, but is being delayed due to slow response...

Any of my Tucson folks I visit as TC can get a free composites workshop whenever they want.... :)

I'm certainly not recommending him...

gil in Tucson
 
I considered ordering one

I looked into it. My first thought or concern was that every airframe is different. So each canopy needs to be hand fit. With metal frame and skirt you can tweak it. With a ridged Carbon canopy your plane better be just like the one that was used as a mold. I was assured that was not the case, but how does he really know the variations of other RV's, unless its tested on many RV's. I suspect he was wrong and is finding one size does NOT fit all.

Sure Van's match drilled parts, fuselages should be close, but how good was the RV that was used as a master mold. It could have been off, at one end of the tolerance range. With a Carbon canopy I felt culd not be adjusted for all but minor variation in a fuselage. I passed. If I go w/ a composite (skirt), I'd mold it right on my plane for a perfect fit. The composite frame and roll structure is cool, but if it does not fit its does not matter how cool it is.

As far as indication of his good intent, it seemed like he was on the up and up, but this was way before he promised or deliver any canopies. I showed interest and was contacted later and got a little brochure in the mail when he started accepting orders. He may have ran into problems on many fronts and now is in hiding. Too bad, hope you get your money back.
 
Last edited:
Gamut, composite canopy

George,

I can't confirm if Charles Wilhite ran into any problems and is in hiding but I can tell you I have tried to contact him and get a refund many times. My emails and phone calls are ignored. I think you were wise to not send him any money. I hope the brochure looked nice, my $3400 probably helped finace it. :rolleyes:

I had the same positive feelings with Mr. Wilhite in the beginning but the stories just got to be more frequent and the delays more constant and then nothing.

Mike Ice
 
The Charles Canopy

I had experienced delays, but I sought out Charles and knew all along I was getting a custom-installed prototype (#3). I'll be posting my more complete experience with Charles in the near future, but for now, I talked to him this morning. Apparently he hasn't been doing very well with customer relationship mgm't, but I don't believe he'll run off with anyone's money. He said he'd been unavailable recently but he'd call his customers today and make it right.

Roger.
 
I hope your right

Roger,

I am glad your dealings with Charles went well. Mine sure have not. I would sure be surprised if I get a call from Charles and he does owe me money, $3400 to be exact. If you see him or get to talk to him ask him about me and why he won't send me a refund.

I sure would like to see and read about your canopy.

I am totally soured on the deal and don't want one a canopy at all under any circumstances. I can just imagine how bad the warranty claims will be or if a person needs spare parts.

But, on the other hand I am happy for you. :)

respectfully,

Mike Ice
Anchorage, Alaska
 
Roger,
How were you able to contact him? I tried his 817-832-1178 and get a message that his message box is full (gee I wonder why).
Any help would be appreciated - be careful and keep your "eyes" open
Bob
PS I do hope this works out to everyones satisfaction.
 
Gamut Services blues

Thomas,

Yes, I have contacted that company. Mr. Bob Kelly is the owner and seems to be a reputable sort of fellow. He is the representative for Charles Wilhite's company, Gamut Services. I don't think he has very much influence on how Charles conducts his customer "no" service. I know he has heavily promoted the products of Gamut but I don't think he has anything to do with product development or production.

Perhaps he would like to chime in. How about it Bob. Why is Charles ignoring the folks that he owes money or products?

Mike Ice
 
revenson said:
I had experienced delays, but I sought out Charles and knew all along I was getting a custom-installed prototype (#3). I'll be posting my more complete experience with Charles in the near future, but for now, I talked to him this morning. Apparently he hasn't been doing very well with customer relationship mgm't, but I don't believe he'll run off with anyone's money. He said he'd been unavailable recently but he'd call his customers today and make it right.

Roger.
Click to expand...


Roger, I waited all day yesterday hoping Charles would call. He did not. Bob, did you get a call?

Mike
 
NO I did not
Luckily I wasn't holding my breath. I did try to call him and got a "full message box" message.
Shame though , still hoping for a "happy" ending.
just call me an optimist. But I do appeciate all the replies and support.
Bob
 
Gamut, Wilhite blues

Bob, Larry, Roger and others,

As of today I have not heard anything from Mr. Wilhite and I suspect i never will except in court. He has proven to be very dishonest and continues to be so. (Sorry Roger, but it is true, he never called or even tried)

Thanks for replying to this and other posts. It has been cathartic to vent this information. Thank you Mr. Doug Reeves for allowing it to take place in a public forum.

I pray that some good comes of this sharing of information. I hope that no one else gets their feelings bashed by Charles Wilhite and their money stolen. I have felt many emotions during this sordid ordeal and the one that keeps recurring is "stupidity". I just feel stupid :eek: for trusting this man.

If there is a lesson here, It might be, Beware of fancy web sites and glowing reviews on the internet, (I know, I should have already known this) there are a lot of "Snake Oil" salesman out there.

Oh well, that being said, I will leave this thread and continue on with trying to recoup my loss.

Mike Ice

PS: If you want to contact me off line,
[email protected]
 
Gamut Services service

I have followed this thread with great interest and consternation and I believe it is time to inject what I know (or don't know.) I have dealt with Charles probably longer than any of you, being the one who initially talked him into creating his second canopy, after one done to repair a -6 as an insurance job.

Charles knows more about composites than anyone I have ever met. He goes back to the Vari-eze days and teaches composite repair to the automotive world.

When he sent me a canopy, it didn't fit. As it turns out, he didn't realize that the -6's and -7/9's are enough different that the windscreen bottom shape is different. Only by 3/16" or so, but different. He drove from Texas to Indiana to check it out. He returned to make new tooling.

There was a time he wouldn't return my phone calls, probably for three weeks. I was so PO'd I almost canceled everything. He later said he had put his phone in a desk so he could get work done. He came back to Indiana with a second canopy which fit like a glove. I have it installed on my 9A and love it!

Another builder (RV-7) saw my canopy and ordered one on the spot. This was a flying aircraft! He ripped off the windscreen and Charles installed one, only to find out later that it had an optical flaw--something that was not his fault. This was replaced, even though it had been flown for some time and required repainting. Now I understand Charles removes the protective plastic from the bubbles and checks them for problems. Not a bad idea.

At least one other time while dealing with him he has refused to return calls, later saying he was too busy. Rotten way to run a railroad, but I know him to be a perfectionist and working with only one employee.

I have promoted his product. I know it works. It is an improvement over the stock alternative. Is he trying to rip you off? I doubt it, but how do I know? If he is, there certainly should be more effecient ways than driving all over the country making sure your product is "right."

Having been in on the development of this product, I can say that it is FAR more complex than you would ever believe. The fact that the plexi bubbles are slightly larger than they should be and place outward pressure on the frame caused months of headaches. Many of you know how hard the canopy process is out of the box. I would say that is a piece of cake compared to developing the replacement.

Whatever is going on, Charles needs his ### kicked for not communicating. I just doubt if it is as underhanded as you are being lead to believe. Please take this for what it is; one person's experience. YMMV.

Bob Kelly
 
End to the Gamut blues

Bob,

Very well written.

I finally receved a refund check from Mr. Wilhite today.

As promised, matter closed. I will comment no further.

Mike Ice :D
 
I hope this all gets resolved as I would like one of his canopies in a year or so.

-Ron
 
Weighing in

I purchased a baggage door from Charles. It was delivered and was full of voids and of generally inferior quality. I called Charles. He did return my call and sent me another, absolutely perfect door, within a week. Regardless of others experience and with no disrespect to their issues, I will have Charles' composite door on my next 8.
 
Mike Ice,
Glad to hear you got your money back.

Bob Kelly,
Nice reply, Charles is lucky he has someone to speak up for him.
When I started this thread I was looking for anyone who may have any feedback which is what you gave me.
My hope is to get the product promised rather than $ back. Time is the problem as I will soon be beyond where I can use his kit.
After reading your reply I still have hope. I will say I have not received a reply nor am I able to leave him a message as his "message box" is full.
Hope things woork out well for him.
Again thanks for your PIREP
Bob
 
Bob Hoffman said:
After reading your reply I still have hope. I will say I have not received a reply nor am I able to leave him a message as his "message box" is full.
Hope things woork out well for him.
Again thanks for your PIREP
Bob
Click to expand...

A friend of mine who ordered one of these canopies (Aug. delivery date), just recieved an E-mail a few days ago, explaining the situation, and an offer of returning his money if he doesn't want to wait. He's now planning on waiting a while longer, and hadn't been aware of this internet thread.

I just happened to mention this topic, and he just happened to get the E-mail, which at least is "some" communication.

L.Adamson
 
Any updates re Gamut Services?

Just wondering if anyone has heard from Gamut Services lately. I'm in for a deposit and a canopy, but haven't heard anything from from them in several months. It was suposed to ship in early November.

Stan
 
Nope - Not aword
I keep callin and hopeing
Maybe He'll get the Christmas spirit and give me a call
OH Well it is dissapointing
Bob
 
PIREP Update
I called Gamut yesterday AND Charles picked up the phone.We had a lenghty conversation and I have every confidence that he will ship the product as newly promised.
He also now has help in a area that he may have been weak in.He sounds upbeat and rejuvinated.
Keeping my fingers crossed
will keep everyone posted
Bob
 
Any Updates on Gamut Canopies?

It's been a couple of months since the last update and was wondering if anyone has heard any more?
 
Well sorry to say ,outside of a lot of lip service (some very creative)I have not heard anything to make me feel that I will ever get what I orded and pad for.
He is next to impossible to reach and when you do you get nothing but empty promises and lies (he forgets what he told you the last time).
Thank goodness the majority of RV'rs are not like that.
Bob
PS I did get an e-mal from another RV'r who is looking to a Lawyer for satisfaction.
 
Bret
I am one of the other dissatified customers of Gamut Services. I was one of the original first purchasers and bought and paid for a canopy last July 2006.
Charles does do good work, I saw his work on Bob Kelly's canopy and decided to get one, mainly to save on building time. In November I decided I couldn't wait any longer and sent Charles a letter and emails requesting a refund, that was when all communications from him ended. I only know of one other RV builder who has gotten a refund back and that was after threatening legal action. I just recently recieved an email from him explaining that he has had personal problems and is working again and intends to refund my money, so I'm hoping this not just another excuse and I will wait just a little longer. There are currently 3 other builders who have decided to join me in hiring an attorney and seek legal action to recover our money if it comes to that. The clock is ticking and at least four of us have demanded a refund from him. If he would get his act together, he could turn out a decent time saving product, in the mean time my advice is Buyer Beware

Ron
RV9A
 
I purchased a baggage door from Charles and was pleased with everything at the time. He was just starting to design the canopy and having built several RVs I felt that it was going to be almost overwelming to get a one shape fits all. I believe that has happened and I believe that he is a good guy and will not cheat anyone. COME ON CHARLES!!!! Your image is more important then your product. When you loose trust, you loose it all. I told Charles I would be interested in the canopy when it's refined and fits properly. I still would but will need to hear some positive feed back. He should refund any and all moneys on request if he can't deliver. Larry
 
Gamut Blues continue

Hi Bob and others in this morass,

I am the guy that got his refund and I did not just threaten legal action I actually did that. This is theft and if you want your money back your going to have to fight for it.

Good luck and stay tough, :(

The dealings with Wilhite are the only sour notes I have had with any one in the RV community. I continue to buy products via the internet and they always show up. Thanks to Stein, B&C, Aeroelectric, and especially Van's, this has been a great experience. :)

Don't let one bad apple spoil it for every body else.

Mike Ice
 
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