S

Sig600

Well Known Member
I've got a line on a zero time (new) IO-360 from another builder that is parting out a kit. Word of mouth is that the motor was pickled, was cracked open and inspected by Ly-con, then sealed back up. The asking price is too good to not jump on but I haven't seen it in person yet.

What are some things to look for as far as log books, build, storage, etc when deciding whether to pull the trigger on buying it?
 
...was cracked open and inspected by Ly-con...

If that was recent and recorded, it would be the best selling point...:)
 
How many years ago?

Pickling and so on only lasts so long. How long ago did Lycon "crack the engine" and look inside? Two or three years ago is one thing....fifteen is another.

Best,
 
Paperwork from the owner is meaningless. Why do I say this? Because I have a friend who bought an engine that had perfect paperwork, only to open it up to find out it was junk. The pair who sold him this engine are doing time in a federal pen, since they fradulently misrepresented 26 engines they sold.

Look for traceable work orders from reputable shops. There should be one for the crank. What was it ground to? If its .010" over, walk away from it. What new parts were used? Are there receipts for the new parts that you can trace? What was done with the cam? What are the main bearing clearances? Who did the work?
 
The motor was a factory new IO-360A1A. Pickled, inspected, pickled over the last few years. Was mounted, ran on the ground, then the project fell apart.

Bought the motor, the owner is sending it to Ly-con for their "magic." Excited to get it back!!!
 
Landfill (Sig),

Just got your text, and this must be the engine off the Lancair project being stored in my hangar, by my next-door neighbor (two time RV-8 builder and Bearhawk builder, who helps pretty much everyone at Stead whenever they need it, and has selflessly helped many guys get their projects flying...good guy, a craftsman, and as straight a shooter as you'll find).

I don't know much about the engine, except that it's off his recently-passed Father's Lancair, and I believe its a factory new (as you said) then pickled, certified engine. The project stalled up in Idaho as his Dad aged (into his late 80's). Scott told me you were having it sent to Lycon to have some work done that you want. Scott's had several engines done by Ken, and I'm sure you'll end up with a great motor and a great deal (no idea of the $$, that's between you guys, but I think you'll be treated with honesty and fairness).

Have fun putting it together...Lycon makes nice motors (I have one too!)

Here's a question for the VAF gang: Scott was wondering whether a certified engine remains certified once a shop like Lycon modifies it. Not sure what Sig is having done to it, but at what point does it become an experimental motor. (For our knowledge, and maybe for Sig's Phase I...just wonderin').

Cheers,
Bob
 
rvmills said:
Here's a question for the VAF gang: Scott was wondering whether a certified engine remains certified once a shop like Lycon modifies it. Not sure what Sig is having done to it, but at what point does it become an experimental motor. (For our knowledge, and maybe for Sig's Phase I...just wonderin').
Click to expand...

ANY modification will take away the engine certification regardless of who does it. Once modified, the engine will no longer meet it's "type certificate", and therefore is no longer certified.
 
Bob, you live! Yes, off the lancair in your hangar. We asked Scott to have them port/flow match, do their piston ring treatment, paint it, EI, and some other stuff. Moving the kit out there in a few weeks over on the I row!

Mel, does that still apply if they hold an STC for the work? 15 more hours in phase 1, don't really care just curious.
 
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Sig600 said:
Bob, you live! Yes, off the lancair in your hangar. We asked Scott to have them port/flow match, do their piston ring treatment, paint it, EI, and some other stuff. Moving the kit out there in a few weeks over on the I row!
Click to expand...

Yeah...been on the run non-stop...been owing ya two replies! Engine should work out well, and the gent you're moving in with is a bud too. Sweet 7 he built, eh!

Lemme know if you need help moving...back on the road again for a few weeks, but if I'm in town, can help.

Cheers,
Bob
 
Mel said:
ANY modification will take away the engine certification regardless of who does it. Once modified, the engine will no longer meet it's "type certificate", and therefore is no longer certified.
Click to expand...

Ly-Con has a port and polish job that keeps certification on Lycomings. It is frequently used on Grumman O-360's. I believe they keep the final dimensions to within the OEM Lycoming specifications.

It depends on what you ask them to do.
 
Yeah his 7 is really nice, can't wait to see it come back from paint!

Planning the move for last week in August, could def use some hands unloading!
 
certification

Mels statement is simply not correct. There are several shops that have approval for flow matching cylinders(retaining certification) I believe that some also have balancing approval.
Two other examples are the Sparrowhawk conversion to convert late model 0 235's for higher compression and the STC approval for converting 150 hp 0 320's to 160 hp.
 
I stand by my original statement!

"Flow matching" or "balancing" is not really a modification.

That would be like saying that polishing the airplane is a modification.
 
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mods

flow matching is a modification that requires FAA approval for the specific engine shop. The difference between the approved programs and the experimental programs is the amount of material removed. The approved programs are very conservative, the experimental programs CAN BE pretty radical. Other examples-the Firewall Forward centri-lube cam approved for most Lycomings, the Ney Nozzles approved for all Lycomings and the Ney approval to convert certain Cont 0 470's to 0 520's.
Now if you want to delve into accessories there is a lot of stuff out there for certified engines.
 
Semantics!

OK, You win. I thought it would be obvious to anyone that if the modification is approved, it would not remove the certification. I should know better than to "assume".

Any unapproved modification will remove the engine from certification. This includes any unapproved after-market additions such as electronic ignitions, fuel injection systems, etc.

Better?
 
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Mel said:
OK, You win. I thought it would be obvious to anyone that if the modification is approved by the engine manufacturer it would not remove the certification. I should know better than to "assume".
.....

Better?
Click to expand...

I bet that Lycoming does not have a written approval for Lycon's port and polish.

I would guess that the approval comes from the FAA....:)
 
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mods

Gil is correct, the mod approval comes from the FAA. Look at the websites for Firewall Forward and Chuck Ney Ent. Each item specifies FAA Approved.
 
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