F

Future N????...

Member
Looking to build a kit, have a couple of questions. 1) What is the best kit for a 1st time builder? I have read that a QB pre-punched RV-8 is the fastest/easiest for a 1st timer, but I question that. Mainly, how difficult is it to bring the standard kit to QB status? From the looks of many builders logs it seems that taking a standard kit to QB is the quickest/simplest stage of construction, and not really worth all those extra $000s spent. My second question with starting with a QB kit, I would think that one would be more into "building mode" by the time their project reaches QB status, and less likely to make crucial errors going forward that would cost time and $$$ than the person that jumped in feet first to a QB project. Any thoughts on this?

that said, my own personal logic would lead me to believe that the simplier the plane, the simplier the systems, the faster and less complicated the build should be. I noticed the trend with RV-8s is full glass panel 200hp C/S prop ect ect ect. By comparison, an RV-4 with an 0-320 fixed pitch prop and simple VFR avionics and a handheld radio should be a faster build than a QB RV-8 trimmed out with all the fittings and gizmos that one (me) will rarely (never) use. I would only plan to fly VFR flights mostly solo, would like the potential to carry a friend every now and again... correct me if im way off base in my logic here....
 
Best plane to build is the one that will best serves your flight mission statement.

Do you plan on aerobatics? Do you want 4 seats? How about long cross country? Maybe no medical, thus an LSA-12?

Be honest with yourself on what your needs are, then start to pick the best plane to fit that mission.

that said, my own personal logic would lead me to believe that the simplier the plane, the simplier the systems, the faster and less complicated the build should be.
Click to expand...

Yep!.... RV12 fastest build.
 
Future N????... said:
From the looks of many builders logs it seems that taking a standard kit to QB is the quickest/simplest stage of construction, and not really worth all those extra $000s spent.
Click to expand...

Do not underestimate the time spent getting a slow build kit to the quick build stage. It is a ton of work. If you are up for a slow build, go for it. After completing much of the slow build metal work I can understand why others go the quick build route.
 
Your question is not answerable without you qualifying your question.
"What is the best kit for a 1st time builder " to do what?
Have the most fun building?
Learn craftsmanship and building techniques?
To get in the air the fastest with the least amount of work?
To reduce builder mistakes?
TO be more like an erector set so my 10 year old kid will help?
To fly my family?
To... You fill in the blanks.

There are many many qualifications necessary for anyone to be able to point you in the right direction.
 
As I emphasize in my talks,

"Build an airplane because you want to build an airplane.
Do NOT build an airplane because you want an airplane!"
 
Future N????... said:
Looking to build a kit, have a couple of questions. 1) What is the best kit for a 1st time builder? I have read that a QB pre-punched RV-8 is the fastest/easiest for a 1st timer, but I question that. Mainly, how difficult is it to bring the standard kit to QB status? From the looks of many builders logs it seems that taking a standard kit to QB is the quickest/simplest stage of construction, and not really worth all those extra $000s spent. My second question with starting with a QB kit, I would think that one would be more into "building mode" by the time their project reaches QB status, and less likely to make crucial errors going forward that would cost time and $$$ than the person that jumped in feet first to a QB project. Any thoughts on this?
Click to expand...

The skills are the same whether you go SB or QB. What a QB kit really does is allow a builder to trade time for money: one type of kit is not necessarily eaiser or harder for a first timer. Typically the build order for RVs is the the tail first so that's where new builder's hone their skills before moving on to more expensive and complex parts of the kit. Also there's no QB for the tail kit so everyone starts on the same playing field.


that said, my own personal logic would lead me to believe that the simplier the plane, the simplier the systems, the faster and less complicated the build should be. I noticed the trend with RV-8s is full glass panel 200hp C/S prop ect ect ect. By comparison, an RV-4 with an 0-320 fixed pitch prop and simple VFR avionics and a handheld radio should be a faster build than a QB RV-8 trimmed out with all the fittings and gizmos that one (me) will rarely (never) use. I would only plan to fly VFR flights mostly solo, would like the potential to carry a friend every now and again... correct me if im way off base in my logic here....
Click to expand...

A single EFIS display and radio is about as simple as it gets and will give you tons more capability with less installation complexity. Why limit yourself with perceived economies?

However, I've got to say soley based on your questions, that you might want to consider buying an already flying example as that's the quickest way to your objective bar none. Building is not hard (at least I don't think so), but it's a lot of work and there's no real shortcuts, even going QB. I firmly believe that old adage that if you want to build, build, but if you want to fly soon, buy something already flying. YMMV....
 
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Welcome to VAF!

John, welcome to VAF.

I concur with all the above posts, you just simply have not given enough info for a solid recommendation.

Tell us more about yourself, what are you flying now, how many hours do you have, what have you flown before, what are you planning to do with the plane you do build, what are your skills that will contribute to the build ETC.

Good to have you here at VAF:D
 
In order of ease

-12 is easiest, hands down!
-14 because of new improvements
-7,9,8 are probably about the same
-10 is a great kit but bigger and more fiberglass
 
ScottSchmidt said:
-12 is easiest, hands down!
-14 because of new improvements
-7,9,8 are probably about the same
-10 is a great kit but bigger and more fiberglass
Click to expand...

Scott nailed it - :)

Pick the plane for your mission and then chose the kit. But the 12 and 14 will be the easier. Find builders in your area or a EAA chapter. Find one of the builders that may allow you to assist them. This will help you see if you want to build and pick the one best for you .
 
Mission First

Here's the logic tree I used to make the decision to build an -8A QB:
Building Experience - None; neither metal nor fiberglass, so I figured there would be a learning curve and mistakes no matter what I chose.
Research Capability - Significant. There's a lot of stuff out there to help the newbie - including the EAA workshops. I enrolled immediately after ordering the emp kit.
Mission - Limited non-competitive acro; cross country; FACIT (Fool Around and Call It Training).
Spouse Involvement - From the beginning she said she wouldn't fly in the thing. Drove the decision to the -8. If she was going to fly, would have selected side by side.
-8 or -8A - 7000+ hrs of flight time, but zero tail dragger time. Remote area, not conducive to training. 64 years old at decision time and didn't want to mess with it. Taildraggers look better, but nose draggers are more cross wind capable. And cheaper for insurance.
Standard or QB - Picked QB because I still have a real job that keeps me on the road. There is a learning curve after being gone from the project for weeks. Even so, it still took me 6 1/2 years.
Tools - Buy the best you can afford - and specialized tools you'll rarely need. When you need it, you need it.
Fiberglass (commonly referred to as "that ****** fiberglass) - You'll either love it or hate it - but you'll learn; best thing about it - you can take a cut-off tool to it and start over.
Perfection - Probably unachievable, but each builder has to decide for himself how much sweat and worry should go into it.
First Flight - Priceless; worth every minute, ounce of sweat, dispair, and depleted bank account.

280+ hours and I still can't believe I actually built that magic carpet.
 
Thanks for the replies.

Flying objective: Local VFR flights. Mostly solo. Occasional pax.

Flying experience to date: <100hrs Cherokees and 172's

While I have never worked with sheetmetal, I would say that I have above average mechanical skills.

Buying a prebuilt is always an option, however, i have that purist, "I did all this myself" kinda feel about it.
 
Jump in, the waters warm, Thats what I did, built the emp, came across a QB wing to good to pass up, but I am doing the SB fuse, if you like making-building anything you will love this. There is tons of help on this site!
 
Mel said:
As I emphasize in my talks,

"Build an airplane because you want to build an airplane.
Do NOT build an airplane because you want an airplane!"
Click to expand...

These are wise words by Mel...I am nearing the end of a 4 yr journey building a standard build RV7. I am an Engineer, like working with my hands and building things and started this endeavor brimming with enthusiasm--but I am officially worn out, it wears on ya.

Make no mistake, there is a lot of work, a lot of sacrifice of personal time to finish one of these...and if you are NOT brimming with enthusiasm at the start, you probably wont finish. If thats the case, go with a quick build or buy one already flying.

Lastly, welcome to the madness...and enjoy whatever path you choose.
 
The current designs, the -10, -12 and -14, have a higher level of construction maturity than the others. People are flying the RV-12 in 1,000 hours, for example, although the other two will take longer. The middle group, the -7, -8, -9, have pre-punched holes and still seem to take considerably more time than the ones I mentioned first.

The hardest to build are the -3, -4 and perhaps the -6. At least the -3 has very little pre-punched parts.

An easy way to check is to buy a set of preview plans and see how you like them. They are simply a shrunken set of the real plans. For the RV-12, which is an exceptionally nice airplane, you can go the support section of Van's site and download some of the plans revisions, enough to get an excellent idea of what's involved.

I'm building an RV-3B, and everything takes more work on it.

That'll all give you an idea of the complexity and difficulty. However, more important is that you've got to want the airplane you'll end up with. Otherwise why bother?

Dave
 
ScottSchmidt said:
-12 is easiest, hands down!
-14 because of new improvements
-7,9,8 are probably about the same
-10 is a great kit but bigger and more fiberglass
Click to expand...

That's interesting about the 14. Right now only the standard built kit is available, but it looks like only the wing kit is available to start. To me that means the tail kit (which most builders start with to learn about building) is not available so one has to "learn" on the wing kit. Am I missing something here?

~Marc
Mailed my dues off to Doug today
 
build

I want to fly but i had to build cost wise there are good deals out there on kits and some for what im building for but not what i wanted so im building no way would i start with a slow build because i want to fly sooner than later .
Bob
 
Like Mel said!

For me, I wanted to build an airplane, not buy one. I also wanted an airplane that could go fast, do aerobatics, had good x-country capability and of course looked cool (I think the -8 is the coolest;))

I started my journey on March 7, 2010, when I started the empenage of the RV-8. At first, I was overwhelmed with what I didn't know and started second guessing myself. I moved forward always thinking that there are so many people that have done this, and I'm not the smartest guy, but....

I will take delivery of my fuselage kit in the next couple of weeks.

The journey has been awesome. There are so many that are also in this journey with me from my friends and family to those that give words of advice, help and support me with my build.

Stop talking about it, pick the -8 and move forward! You can look cool in an -8 too.:cool:

Don
 
Mel said:
As I emphasize in my talks,

"Build an airplane because you want to build an airplane.
Do NOT build an airplane because you want an airplane!"
Click to expand...

This is indeed very excellent advice. And I'm the last person who would want to disagree with Mel. However, there are exceptions. I am probably one of those. I didn't have money to just buy an airplane (unless, perhaps, a decades-old spam can). I admit, I went into this building project as a means-to-an-end. To me, it seemed like the most logical way to get the kind of airplane I wanted, and shiny new at that, at a price I could afford, spread out over a number of years. I do like to build things, but honestly, it was all about the airplane for me. The end result.

What I discovered as I got into it, was just how much fun I was having, and how tremendously rewarding this whole project can be. The effect it has had on me has been profound. I have never done anything quite as rewarding as this, and I'd do it again in a heartbeat. I didn't go quickbuild, it was standard kits for me all the way. Like someone else pointed out, it's either your time or your money.

Six years later, I'm working on firewall forward with the finish line in sight. And I can honestly say, "it's all about the journey!" I could have done it in half the time if "life hadn't gotten in the way" but that's just the way it is. For me. Every person is different. No complaints here. It will fly when it flies. Meanwhile, I'm still having the time of my life!

Order up a tail kit, choose the airplane you want to see when you open the hanger doors, not the so-called easiest to build, and get started. You'll know by the time your tail kit is finished whether or not building is for you. :)
 
If you're a "purist" and want to say "I built this myself", then you must build a slow build. All the kits are basically the same skill requirements except the 10 is larger and the 12 is simpler due to the pulled rivets. You need to decide tandem or side-by-side and if you want to do aerobatics.

While there is still considerable work left to a QB, QB kits give you wings and a fuselage that are well completed and eliminate much of the messy and complicated initial forming, insuring a good start to an excellent kit. QB wings and fuselage kits will save most builders 500 to 1000 hrs, depending on their skill level and rate of building speed.

Roberta
 
Well,

My best advice would be, if you already haven't, find your closest EAA chapter, go to a meeting. Have you sat in an RV? Flew in one? I bet you would be happy with any of them, but to find the best one by talking about it through a computer is tough at best. I'm on the other side of the continent so I can't help much here.

Please somebody on here with an RV near this guy give him a boost.

I started to build my plane cause I wanted a plane, but it turns out after I got started that I wanted to build a plane. Good luck with your endeavors!

Randy
8A 0-360
Fixed Catto 3 Blade
Simple, Fast and Kickin !!!
 
A lot of helpful comments here. I never sat or flown in an RV. I am in northern NJ. I have touched base with the Local EAA Chapter 73 where a gentlement is building a -9. I think slow build is the way to go for me, as it would be a project that my son and I can work on together. As far as the models go, the problem is I like all of them :-D. I guess its time to stop dreaming and start doing...
 
The one your gonna finish.

Even if you...
Change jobs
Move
Get deployed
Have children

Because your life and family situation will change unexpectedly during the build.

2x deployments, 1x cross country move and I'm still just excited about building as when I started.
 
Build time....

Took me 1660 hrs of hands on building time for the QB -9A. I would agree that the QB probably saves 1000 hrs, it cost an extra 10% of the end product. For me QB was a worthwhile investment to save at least 2 more years of building. So take those hrs, divide out how many hrs you can commit each week, and that's pretty close to how long it will take to finish. It typically takes YEARS.

Flying what you built is one of the most rewarding experiences you will have in your entire life. High rewards come with a price to pay, in many ways. These are projects filled with blood, sweat and tears. Would I do it again.... I already did!

You really need to get a ride in a 7/8 and a 9, as they handle quite differently. Then decide. I flew my Long-EZ 22 yrs so have tons of tandem time. I love the visibility of the tandem, but love the panel & cockpit space of the side by side!
 
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Thanks for all the replies and insight. 1st things first, I am going to build/organize my preliminary building area and start aquiring the neccessary tools that I dont already have.
 
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