J

jim

Well Known Member
Hi,

I have been lurking here for quite some time now and on the matronics site for years. I have a flying RV6 (purchased) and have been working on a 8 for far too long. I want to go to Land of Enchantment this year. I live in Michigan, but, I have absolutely ZERO experience with mountain flying. I am looking for advice as far as route, and questioning whether it may be feasible to hook up with other RVers planning to go so as to not attempt this alone for my first mountain experience.

I picked up Sparky Imesons book Mountain Flying at OSH this year, also got a O2 tank and cannulas for the plane. I plan on having a passenger with me for the entire trip (unless she who controls all decides not to go).

I have visited the LOE site and read the various write-ups available and would really like to make the trip, I am just worried about the mountains and my lack of mountain experience.

From what I have seen I think it would be best to fly to TX, maybe DFW area, then hang a right and head west from there? I am looking for suggestions and advice and possibly hooking up with others planning on making the trip who wouldn't mind a tag along.

Thanks,

Jim
RV6 flying
RV8 wings (still)
 
Hey Jim,

Swing down to western Texas and go *just* south of El Capitan (Guadalupe mtns). It's pretty flat there and the view off your right wing will be incredible: http://www.vansairforce.net/loe/loe4_pics/IMG_2176.jpg.

El Paso is just west of that and it's flat through the passes - lots of long flat roads. I would call it 'desert' flying before I'd call it 'mountain'. On the day of the fly-in listen on 122.75 and you'll probably be able to join in a long string of Texans headed that way <g>.

Hope to see you there!!!

Best,
 
Hi Doug,

Thanks for the reply. I need to get some sectionals and start checking out the trip. Will definitely listen in for the line of Texans!!!

Thanks,
Jim
 
We are on the RV Hotel list and are located right across the taxiway from Jay Pratt's RV Central. The hangar owner directly across from us is currently building a 10 with Jay.
If you want to break up your trip come on down and meet the BC Squadron guys and fly out the next morning.
 
When you plan

As Doug says, the mountains are not a real big thing in that part of the country. Just plan with lots of fuel reserve; the head winds can be severe and the refueling options are far between. Also there are some serious Restricted areas to be avoided.

Bob Axsom
 
WHere are you going park

Airports near Anaheim

Chino* (The Air Museum ~ Planes of Fame)
Corona*
Riverside* (RV hotel list?)
Fullerton**
Compton
Longbeach

* Out side LAX Class-B and 20-30 miles East of Disneyland
**Closest to Disneyland (never been there)

Flying over / around the Rockies is not a big deal, but consider going around and doing an end-run thru Albuquerque NM. This adds only 100 sm and brings you over much lower terrain and cruise altitudes. It is still high (desert) but not near the 12,000' peeks like the ones near Denver. Going direct takes you by Denver and some real high hills.

Going a little further south, thru ABQ also puts you by Las Vegas, NV or Phoenix, AZ. You may want to consider a RON at one of these cities if you are so inclined on the way out or back.

As far as headwinds, I think your mountain flying book will warn you about winds aloft greater than 20kts over the mountain tops can be bad news (turbulence and vertical up/down drafts which can exceed aircraft performance).

From what you say you plane on flying high with O2. I am all for direct routes and mountains, which don't bother me too much. I flew freight years ago in old twins over the Cascade Mountains in the winter. Still you may want to consider the southern route with lower terrain and more available airports.

I think of real Mountain flying low thru the passes well below the surrounding peaks. It is fun to do, but snaking thru a mountain pass following a road is not a fast way to travel. Also taking a wrong turn into a blind canyon has bit more than a few pilots. Even with the RV's great performance, at high altitudes, hot temps and heavy weight you can get into a situation where you are sucking wind and can't out climb the rocks. Getting into a narrow pass may not give you room to turn around. Ouch.

The restricted areas east of LA basin (especially R2501 Bullion mountain) needs to be avoided, altitude is surface to unlimited, but with GPS that should be a snap. No worries there, but there are some that pop-up enroute and the GPS is a real help. I know my GPS alerts has saved me one airspace incursion. Best advice is have fun, fly safe. It really is no big deal. ONe great peice of advise is gas prices. Go the AirNav and use the fuel planner to calculate a route based on gas prices. National Gas avg cost is $3.27 to a max of $5.25, this could save you some cash so you can buy those Mouse ear hats you want. You can still find gas for $2.20. You can save about $42 on this trip each way. :D

http://www.airnav.com/plan/fuel/

Cheers George

Whoops, Wrong land of enchantment :D :eek: :rolleyes:
 
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I think you have the wrong LOE

I think the thread starter is interested in going to the desolate part of New Mexico west of El Paso not the real enchanted part up the valley north of ABQ and certainly no LA. Planning will probably involve refueling at Midland. 14 years ago when returning to LA from the AOPA Convention at New Orleans I was on a leg from Kileen to Ft. Stockton and with some conservative inflight calculations I was sure I could make El Paso. The headwinds came up over 60 kts and there is no way I could make it even though I could see the mountains west of El Paso in the distance. I saw a paved strip in the middle of nowhere that was not on the charts and told El Paso Approach I was going to have to land there. It was a private ranch strip and the the lady that was there did have some avgas that she sold me. She said this happens all the time when the winds come up and the previous year at couple in a bonaza made a pass and circled back to land but crashed short of the runway. When I climbed out the same controller was on duty but I was not inclined to contact anyone. I did very discretely call however, and the cheerful old hand controller said "welcome back 04Lima..." Since then I pay great respect to that part of the country. The restricted areas include the White Sands Missile Range. When we flew by there in March two B-52s were making runs on the place. It is an adventure to treasure but plan well and be careful.

Bob Axsom
 
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Re: Want to go to Land Of Enchantment

Bob & others,

In regards to fuel in Texas, Bridgeport Municipal (XBP) is located about 26 nm northwest of the DFW metroplex and currently has fuel for $2.53 (recent high was 2.65). It's self-service 24/7 and has a very nice new terminal and very clean bathrooms.
The group I flew out with to LOE last year stopped at Andrews County Airport (E11) at Andrews, TX, located north of the Midland/Odessa mess. The current fuel price there is $2.62 and it's a big self-service ramp. Others we knew coming out from south of DFW stopped at Winston Field (SNK) at Snyder, TX. Current fuel price there is $2.95.
Study those charts and hope the info helps. The other big restricted area that I can think of for someone coming from Michigan would be the Lawton, OK, Fort Sill area. There's a pretty big one there that you don't want to stray into.

Bob mentioned seeing B-52's making a run over White Sands last year. Just as we came around El Capitan for some photos we were able to see White Sands to the north. Just as I called my wife's attention to it they shot a missile up. What a sight! What a welcome!

Hope to see all of ya'll out there this year!
 
Mike, Bob, and George,

Thanks for the replys guys! I will order the charts this week and begin planning for this trip. All of my flying to date has been in the midwest and while we have some beautiful sites I can only imagine how awesome this trip is going to be.

Mike, I appreciate the invite and may just do that if it isn't a problem for you. Are there many people from Hicks planning on making the trip? It sure would be nice to follow along with a group . I have been trying to look back through the site to check out the reference to the BC Squadron but haven't found it yet. Forgive my ignorance here, and please no disrespect intended, but can you tell me a little about this Squadron? How many RVers are located at Hicks? I have seen Jay Pratts name mentioned quite a bit on Dougs site. The nearest RV to me is about 50 miles away, not too many being built in north central lower Michigan. Sounds like your area is an RV mecca of sorts. Man, that would be nice to be closer to an active RV community.

Thanks again for the replies,
Jim
 
Sparky Imeson's "Bible"

If you do get around to flying mountains, I would definitely concur with your use of Sparky Imeson's mountain flying books. I'm not sure if you have his "Mountain Flying" or "Mountain Flying Bible." If you do not have the latter, I would strongly encourage it. The former is good, but watered down. The latter is extra thorough, but could use a good editor. Neither is perfect, but I think if you really want to understand mountain flying (aside from, and in addition to, getting a good checkout from someone who knows mountain flying), the Mountain Flying Bible is a great resource that I would encourage you to pick up.

If you have a chance to fly mountains do it, even if you have to get instruction first! I just moved from Ohio where I had to live for four years. They were the four most boring flying years of my life--if there is such a thing with flying :) . I made it back to the mountains where I learned to fly and hope I am never without them again. Go to LOE via the Rockies (even if you have to take a detour) is my vote!

Have fun-

Steve
 
Hi Steve,

Thanks for the recommendations, I have the first book, Mountain Flying. I heard the other is out of print but haven't looked too hard for it yet. I can imagine once someone were to get the chance to fly in the mountains the midwest would seem pretty tame. Especially OHIO (sorry buckeyes....but I am from Michigan)!!! (just kidding).
Anyways, I will look for the other book.

Thanks,
Jim
 
Rental Cars at LOE

Hello,

I called the listed number for reserving a rental car at LOE Thru Advantage and was first given another number to call - then finally told they don't rent cars at Santa Teresa airport. Has anyone else had luck getting a car set up for LOE? Maybe I am asking the wrong question.

Let me know -

Thanks,

Pete
 
Hey Pete,

The final planning meeting is scheduled for next Monday (I'm attending) and we should have all the hotel/rental car bugs worked out at that time.

There will be 150+ cars at the Santa Teresa airport for rental for sure. I'll post an update on the site Tue next week with an update.

B,
D
 
Rental Cars

The rental car agency will be asking you for your current CAR insurance carrier AND policy number to make the reservation. You can make the reservation without it but you MUST have this information at the time you pickup your car :) No info, no car...Rosie
 
Approximately how many RV's are expected at LOE?

I'm thinking about jump-seating into El Paso Saturday morning and spending the day.

TIA.

Brad
 
Loe

Jim,

Please come to Texas and fly with the BCs. You are welcome to fly with us.

We will not cross many, any? Mountains. You will fly over more in Oklahoma than we will going to LOE.
Mike Reddick or I will put your plane under cover some where.
I plan to leave Friday AM with Krash,YellowBird, Sky, Turbo, and who ever?

We usualy break up the flight into 4shps" so we do not have to sit on the ramp waiting for fuel. "Although" somtimes,,,? some of the best hanger stories are told while wating for fuel with "17 + RVs!"
 
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How Many RVs?

Brad,

Last year there was 200+ RVs. The number has a direct proporation to the WX. Lets hope it is good this year! Hope to see you there!
 
Jaypratt said:
Brad,

Last year there was 200+ RVs. The number has a direct proporation to the WX. Lets hope it is good this year! Hope to see you there!
Click to expand...
Wow...sounds great. I'm going to try to make it! Thanks Jay.

Brad
 
goodie rack

I just finished my hideaway stash rack for all the goodies I plan on hauling home from LOE.

just got her up on the gear yesterday, should be ready. a few more details... i'm on a roll

just hope the DAR scheduled for Nov. doesn't see me or ask me about the bugs from Oct. :eek:

loegoodiehidaway5fh.jpg


straininggear5lf.jpg


maybe I'll take the train.
 
Loe

Jay,

I've been offline for a few days and just got on again and noticed your post. Thank you, I do plan on coming to fly out with you guys and am really looking forward to this. I think the wife is coming but not 100% sure on this yet. I have reservations for a room once at LOE, and have not been able yet to connect on the car rental thing but I will keep trying. My work keeps interfering with getting hold of the guy at the car place. Mike Reddick gratiously offered us a place to stay for the night the night before flying out and hopefully the weather doesn't foil any plans.

I do need to replace my AI as it took a crap this week, looking for a good deal on one and plan to have it in before the trip.

Thanks again, you guys are great!

Jim
 
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