G

glenn654

Well Known Member
Anyone running Vetterman mufflers on a -7 w/ IO-360/375 in the Georgia area? I would really love to hear/fly the engine and get you opinions.

If you're in a nearby state would like to hear from you as well.

Glenn Wilkinson
 
Vettermen mufflers

Alf here's Vetterman's website.

http://www.vettermanexhaust.com/


Steve can you explain the muffler set up, I'm I correct in thinking that there is a heat muff over the muffler assembly? The one picture on the website does not show very much.

I'll be flying off a small strip and I want to be a good neighbor.


thanks, terry.
 
allbee said:
I have mufflers on mine and absolutely love them, you don't loose any power, I have plenty and the sound, who cares, I don't have to worry about noise abantment issues, I just go fly.
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I care about the sound!!! I live under the airport pattern. What fun would it be, if I didn't know a Lycoming was flying over...........and looking up! :D

Yes, Subies, rotaries, and helicopters need mufflers, as the sound is annoying to start with. :)

L.Adamson --- RV6A
 
We are the 1%...

L.Adamson said:
I care about the sound!!! I live under the airport pattern. What fun would it be, if I didn't know a Lycoming was flying over...........and looking up! :D

Yes, Subies, rotaries, and helicopters need mufflers, as the sound is annoying to start with. :)

L.Adamson --- RV6A
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...who like airport noise. The other 99% of the world not involved in GA does not. Politicians are numbers guys. Guess which group has the most clout?

I took transition training from Mike S. in N477RV. Mike installed a Vetterman exhaust with mufflers on that plane. It still sounded great to me on take off (same amount of propeller noise), but was noticeably quieter entering the pattern for landing. The interior noise level was lower, which I found less fatiguing.

To paraphrase Abraham Lincoln, one's freedom to swing one's arms (noise) ends where the other man's nose (ears) begins. The issue with noise is that it doesn't end at the boundary of the property. All of us that love flying ought to consider what a small (and blessed) minority we are. However, it pretty clear that in a tug-of-war one guy on the end of a rope is no match for 99 on the other end of the rope.

Larry

PS I also love race car noise. I have permanent hearing loss from all the time I spent aroiund race tracks without hearing protection
 
Heat comparison?

Has anyone tried the Vetterman system both with and without the mufflers?

It says on their website that the system with mufflers puts out more heat for the cabin?
More cabinheat would be very nice for winterflying in Norway....
 
mufflers

I just ordered the Vetterman system with mufflers. The muffler system will give more cabin heat due to increased surface area beneath the shroud and it comes a shroud for each muffler for very cold areas. I talked to Larry Vetterman and it is only a few pounds heavier with no noticeable performance difference. Silence is golden. If there is no performance benefit with straight pipes, I'll opt for quiet every time.

Jay, RV-7A finishing
 
Any recent PIREPS on mufflers? I talked to Larry this past weekend about them and he loves them. Sounds like it might be worth the investment.
 
Anyone know if these are retrofittable? I got my exhaust before mufflers were an option - and I'd love to make my plane a bit quieter (happy neighbors == less pressure to close airport)
 
A few answers

I have an exhaust system with mufflers originally made by Aircraft Exhaust and adjusted by Vetterman to Vetterman specs due to mounting and other problems. When returned I had them include a set of non muffler tail pipes. The intent was to fly my RV9A without the mufflers to see if I could notice any performance increase. The result of my little experiment was: no perceptible performance increase and definite increased noise and vibration in the plane. The plane is much more comfortable to fly long cross countries with the mufflers. I have no idea about the noise level outside the plane. I believe the mufflers would be a replacement for the straight pipe with different mounting required. If necessary Vetterman can modify the existing pipes for a reasonable
sum.

Paul Eckenroth
509RV
 
If your current system has the triangular flanges as shown on the Vetterman Exhaust site here, then yes, they should be. The muffler option is shown installed on an engine with an A mount in this pic.

I have the muffler system installed on my vertical draft 360, but I haven't flown yet, so I can't comment on noise, let alone compare it to an unmuffled system.

I bought the system direct from Larry Vetterman. He was easy to deal with. I imagine that even if you have ball joints with no flanges on your current system that he could modify it and supply mufflers. Larry was adamant that a constant supply of cold air is required through both muffs. They can't be plumbed in series. That's to prevent the mufflers from frying.

If you want some pix of an installed system I can snap a few with lower cowl on/off tonight when I get to my hangar.
 
Vetterman sent me a set of mufflers to try out. I installed them today and I have to say, I really like them. I didn't notice any performance decrease. However, definitely quieter than the straight pipes. They are NOT silencers! So there is still the classic "RV Sound". Just the noise level in on 7 instead of 10. Living up here in WI the big question was "how does the heat work?" Well, I have only one of the 2 heat exchangers hooked up and the heat was rolling out when I applied it. I will hook up the 2nd heat exchanger at a later date.

It appears that to swap your straight pipes for the muffled pipes will cost you around $650, but if you buy them for your initial installation you will save a $150 or so. Call Larry for an accurate quote.

In my opinion they are definitely worth it. I have been around planes a long time and I want to save my hearing for as long as possible. The mufflers do a good job toning the sound down, but not so much to make it sound like a Cessna.

It took me 4 hours to retrofit the mufflers and I took my time. I would think the average builder could retrofit in or about the same amount of time. The initial installation would take no longer than the straight pipe.

I brought the pipes to my EAA Chapter meeting last night. Although there were mixed feelings about "mufflers" most admired the quality construction and they were a bit of a novelty. (funny how we'll admire a set of mufflers like some would admire a piece of jewelry).

If you are interesting in a set call Larry Vetterman, his website is a bit old school and you won't find much help there. Just call and he will set you up.
 
it is more difficult (engineering wise) to make something fast, and quiet, than it is to make something fast/powerful and loud

I love the idea of a completely silent 200hp airplane, i can't imagine why someone would want otherwise
 
apkp777 said:
Vetterman sent me a set of mufflers to try out. I installed them today and I have to say, I really like them. I didn't notice any performance decrease. However, definitely quieter than the straight pipes. They are NOT silencers! So there is still the classic "RV Sound". Just the noise level in on 7 instead of 10. Living up here in WI the big question was "how does the heat work?" Well, I have only one of the 2 heat exchangers hooked up and the heat was rolling out when I applied it. I will hook up the 2nd heat exchanger at a later date.

It appears that to swap your straight pipes for the muffled pipes will cost you around $650, but if you buy them for your initial installation you will save a $150 or so. Call Larry for an accurate quote.

In my opinion they are definitely worth it. I have been around planes a long time and I want to save my hearing for as long as possible. The mufflers do a good job toning the sound down, but not so much to make it sound like a Cessna.

It took me 4 hours to retrofit the mufflers and I took my time. I would think the average builder could retrofit in or about the same amount of time. The initial installation would take no longer than the straight pipe.

I brought the pipes to my EAA Chapter meeting last night. Although there were mixed feelings about "mufflers" most admired the quality construction and they were a bit of a novelty. (funny how we'll admire a set of mufflers like some would admire a piece of jewelry).

If you are interesting in a set call Larry Vetterman, his website is a bit old school and you won't find much help there. Just call and he will set you up.
Click to expand...

Tony, the mounting hardware on my system appears to be somewhat different than on previous Vetterman installations, where all mounting hardware connected to the engine. Larry's setup as supplied to me had outer struts connecting to the motor mount, with inner struts going up to the aft edge of the crankcase at the oil pan bolts (the latter being similar to non-muffled Vetterman systems I've seen).

I'm a little leery of this because it seems that the struts connected to the motor mount will cause a lot of shifting and tugging on startup/shutdown. But I haven't started the engine yet, let alone flown with it. Is yours the same? Opinions?

Thanks!
 
Same here, but no problem so far.

We have huge noise restrictions and in Germany even pay landing fees according to the noise level we produce (more noise is more fees to be paid!!)

My Vetterman mufflers are the same set up (connected to the engine mount). I put the brases way out towards the Mount-bolts so there is no stress on the engine mount tubes, mid-span. So far 7,1 Hrs. and still looks exactly the same as when I installed it.

Regards, Tonny.
 
Lars said:
Tony, the mounting hardware on my system appears to be somewhat different than on previous Vetterman installations, where all mounting hardware connected to the engine. Larry's setup as supplied to me had outer struts connecting to the motor mount, with inner struts going up to the aft edge of the crankcase at the oil pan bolts (the latter being similar to non-muffled Vetterman systems I've seen).

I'm a little leery of this because it seems that the struts connected to the motor mount will cause a lot of shifting and tugging on startup/shutdown. But I haven't started the engine yet, let alone flown with it. Is yours the same? Opinions?

Thanks!
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Funny, in the middle of the night last night it dawned on me that the set up with the braces attaching to the engine mount might cause the pipes damage. So today I went to the airport and started fiddling with it. I have come to the conclusion that as long as the ball joint remains flexible I don't think there will be a problem. My concern is that the ball joint will get stuck then it may become an issue. I placed a call to Larry this AM but he didn't answer. I will try him again later.

The kit he sent me did have much longer ball joint springs and they are really flexible. Maybe that's the difference. In any case, the mufflers that I have on my plane were on Larry's RV7 for the last several months and are installed the way he suggested.
 
Thanks, nothing like field experience to verify the design. I'm gonna leave mine as per Vetterman's instructions. Off to the hangar. Must... finish... in... 2011...
 
Update on Vetterman mufflers.

I have about 10-15 hours on the mufflers now. I have to say, it's much quieter. I have had lot's of people fly in the plane before and after the installation and everyone agrees it's not nearly as noisy. Again I need to say that they only muffle the sound and do NOT silence it. The plane still sounds like and "RV" and I have not noticed ANY performance impairment.

I am still trying to figure out some collateral effects of the installation. Namely, my EGT's and CHT's seem to be more in line with each other. I am afraid to speculate but I wonder if it is possible that the minor restriction in the pipes has balanced the flow through my o-320 cylinders. Additionally, the "rumble" that I had beneath my feet has all but diminished.

Personally, I would not go with out them. They add a bit of cost to a FWF package, but I think it's a very worthwhile investment. The comfort of flying without my ears ringing afterward is worth at least the cost of the installation.

Since I my mufflers were on loan from Vetterman, Larry contacted me and told me wanted them back. So, I refused and told him to take a hike! No, actually, I was happy to send him a check for them. There's no way I am taking them off the plane.
 
apkp777 said:
Update on Vetterman mufflers.

I have about 10-15 hours on the mufflers now. I have to say, it's much quieter. I have had lot's of people fly in the plane before and after the installation and everyone agrees it's not nearly as noisy. Again I need to say that they only muffle the sound and do NOT silence it. The plane still sounds like and "RV" and I have not noticed ANY performance impairment.

I am still trying to figure out some collateral effects of the installation. Namely, my EGT's and CHT's seem to be more in line with each other. I am afraid to speculate but I wonder if it is possible that the minor restriction in the pipes has balanced the flow through my o-320 cylinders. Additionally, the "rumble" that I had beneath my feet has all but diminished.

Personally, I would not go with out them. They add a bit of cost to a FWF package, but I think it's a very worthwhile investment. The comfort of flying without my ears ringing afterward is worth at least the cost of the installation.

Since I my mufflers were on loan from Vetterman, Larry contacted me and told me wanted them back. So, I refused and told him to take a hike! No, actually, I was happy to send him a check for them. There's no way I am taking them off the plane.
Click to expand...

Good to hear... er, ah, read that. Since when I get mine flying I'll have no basis for comparison, it's nice to get your real-world report supporting my decision.

I take it that the muffler hangers are holding up fine so far?
 
Lars said:
Good to hear... er, ah, read that. Since when I get mine flying I'll have no basis for comparison, it's nice to get your real-world report supporting my decision.

I take it that the muffler hangers are holding up fine so far?
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I was surprised when I discovered that the RV exhausts came with no mufflers. I didn't really know it was an "option" until talking to Larry Vetterman at the Badlands Fly-In. I was also struck by how loud my plane was. Not that I needed it to be quiet, just not deafening. The mufflers are a good decision for sure.

The hangars should be fine. I did attach them per the plans to the engine mount and am keeping an eye on them for signs of failure.
 
Hi all,

With a rather large spread of CHT and EGT, interested by the idea that mufflers may help balance them. Does seem logical as little bit of back pressure evenly spaced is better than very loose exhaust pressures that may be affected by temps and cowl exits - I think?

Anyone else find similar improvements with mufflers?
 
Mufflers

I have 220 hours on an RV9a with mufflers. I really like them. Noise makes me tired and mufflers and a Cato 3 blade prop really make a difference.
The plane still sounds good to me.
 
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