P

Pirkka

Well Known Member
Is more than I would expected... I took page from history and compared to prices at Van's site today. Then calculated change in %. Average is calculated from all percents so if change in QB fuse is 10 % and in preview plans 0 % here will be 5 %. Therefore the increase is actually even more as preview plans prices didn't change at all. RV-12 not included as it was not present in 12th October 2008 price list...

Price list was exported directly from IE to worksheet but due there are all kind of markings in number fields it required some manual work as well. Therefore there may be some typing errors.

[edit: Incorrect price data removed]

PS. Q: Why build RV-7? A: It's still less than 20k, unlike 7A, 8 and 8A. :D
 
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I question the data; I've been considering starting on a -10 now that the -6A is flying. The empennage kit last year was $3500, up 3.7% from 2007's $3375. The 2009 price is still $3500, so a 0% increase. Did you inadvertently use 2007 prices, Pirkka?

Edit: I used the figures on the spreadsheet that Rob linked to above to check. For instance, in 2007, a quickbuild -10 cost $48325. In 2008 it cost $49995, and in the RVator today it is listed as $52145. The increase from 2007 to 2009 is 7.9% while the increase from 2008 to 2009 is 4.3%. I stopped after doing the RV-10 column, but it looks like you are comparing 2007 to 2009 prices.
 
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Darn I just cost myself $600

I had planned to order my finish kit but since I did not have a lot of room to store stuff I decided to put it off for a while longer. If I had know there was going to be a near 11% increase I would have ordered it last year. :mad:
 
I thought the same thing when I saw the price increases. They seemed VERY unreasonable and that's not something I've historically come to expect from Vans.

During the fuel run-up, they raised the prices and blamed the increase on the cost of fuel. That excuse is fine and perfectly acceptable.

But they never lowered them when the fuel prices came back down and instead slapped a 10% increase on those prices. Just doesn't make any sense to me.

If you can't judge from my words, I'm really disappointed. I can understand a modest increase of 2-4%, but not 10%.

If you look at the direction the shrinking economy is headed, their increase is probably north of 12-14% relative to the dollar spent.

Something just doesn't smell right.

Phil
 
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None of the numbers listed in the first post is correct. I just created a spreadsheet comparing prices from December 27,2008 to the latest prices. The complete kit price increases are between three and four percent. The biggest increases are in finishing kits.

2008 2009 difference
RV-3
tail kit $910.00 $940.00 3.30%
wing kit $5,165.00 $5,450.00 5.52%
fuselage $2,765.00 $2,880.00 4.16%
finishing $4,585.00 $4,820.00 5.13%
total $13,425.00 $14,090.00 4.95%

RV-4
tail kit $1,230.00 $1,260.00 2.44%
wing kit $5,415.00 $5,600.00 3.42%
fuselage $3,875.00 $3,930.00 1.42%
finishing $4,965.00 $5,250.00 5.74%
total $15,485.00 $16,040.00 3.58%

RV-7
tail kit $1,600.00 $1,600.00 0.00%
wing kit $6,185.00 $6,450.00 4.28%
fuselage $5,505.00 $5,550.00 0.82%
finishing $5,785.00 $6,080.00 5.10%
total $19,075.00 $19,670.00 3.12%
total (QB) $28,725.00 $29,660.00 3.26%

RV-7A
tail kit $1,600.00 $1,600.00 0.00%
wing kit $6,185.00 $6,450.00 4.28%
fuselage $6,165.00 $6,240.00 1.22%
finishing $5,955.00 $6,250.00 4.95%
total $19,905.00 $20,530.00 3.14%
total (QB) $29,555.00 $30,520.00 3.27%

RV-8
tail kit $1,550.00 $1,550.00 0.00%
wing kit $6,205.00 $6,420.00 3.46%
fuselage $6,975.00 $7,220.00 3.51%
finishing $4,965.00 $5,340.00 7.55%
total $19,695.00 $20,510.00 4.14%
total (QB) $29,345.00 $30,510.00 3.97%

RV-8A
tail kit $1,550.00 $1,550.00 0.00%
wing kit $6,205.00 $6,420.00 3.46%
fuselage $6,455.00 $6,570.00 1.78%
finishing $5,875.00 $6,240.00 6.21%
total $20,085.00 $20,760.00 3.36%
total (QB) $29,735.00 $30,760.00 3.45%

RV-10
tail kit $3,500.00 $3,500.00 0.00%
wing kit $8,535.00 $9,040.00 5.92%
fuselage $13,795.00 $14,090.00 2.14%
finishing $12,790.00 $13,555.00 5.98%
total $38,620.00 $40,185.00 4.05%
total (QB) $50,220.00 $52,145.00 3.83%
 
My fault

Hi,

yeah, I did screwed this a big. I do apologize for any confusion.


As noted, I accidentally used prices from year 2007 as I just took last entry from Web archive. As year is changing and years get mixed I didn't notice that so prices in my original mail where I was comparing was 12th October 2007.

It seems that Web archive didn't save anything for the 2008 from kit prices page, which is shame: http://web.archive.org/web/*/http://www.vansaircraft.com/public/kitprice.htm
 
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In defense of....

I'm not going to comment on the specifics of the price increases but am going to offer a general defense.

The costs for any manufacturer are a combo of a lot of things - most of which you have very little control of at time. I own a machine shop/precision sheet metal fabrication company and the cost of things like raw materials (aluminum) make up a small fraction of our overall costs. The largest cost by far is labor with all its various components. When you read about the health care crisis in this country I can tell you that costs are escalating at an unsustainable rate in that areana. I have no idea what Van's provides its employees if anything but if they provide even the most basic coverage the costs have been escalating at a rate many many times the rate of kit costs increases. Taxes are another huge expense with payroll taxes enjoying their annual uplife every year. property taxes also go up and everytime you see a new building going up on the Van's website you can bet the taxes are being levied and need to be paid, etc.

All in all, compared to every other aviation enterprise I see I beleive Van offer great value. In fact I suspect they don't charge as much as they could get away with but I'm not encouraging them to do so.

The R&D for the new planes and features ain't cheap and its not like the old days when Van was basically working for nothing designing these planes we enjoy so much hoping to get paid back for his sweat over time. He obviously did and is a great american success story - God Bless America!. But he has a very talented staff now carrying the load and they don't work for free - nor should they.

You also have to realize Van's only does this once a year. Can you imagine how difficult it is to set a price when your basic commodity costs (aluminunm) can vary by 30-50% in cost ovet the period you are setting yoru price for.?Guess too wrong and you end up like GM - and I doubt the government would bail out Van's.
 
in one of my business ventures we buy a lot of sheet steel and plastic. you do not even want to know what the prices have done the last year, and no, they have not come down with the drop in oil.

face it, van is not getting rich on his profit margin. even if he was, so be it. he is still selling the best value in aviation.

bob burns
N82RB
 
Sounds like you need to hire a good procurement professional

Vans if your reading - I'd be happy to help...

We did see commodity costs sky rocket through most of the year but the last 90 days we have seen unprecedented declines in those very same commodities. In fact, in many cases below 2007 prices. It's time to get tough with your suppliers and push back.

I am confident Vans is not getting rich on this but their suppliers sure are.

A very well informed commodity procurement professional could save us and vans hundreds, if not millions of dollars.

MM.
 
Not Commodities

The materials used to manufacture these airplanes are not commodities. Commodities are the raw base material such as aluminum ingots not aluminum sheet ,etc. The materials used in these kits are manufactured and facing the same rising costs we are all seeing in our daily lives.

You should make your offer to the mills that manufacture the sheets. Some how I bet they already have qualified people to do this though.

Van's does an excellent job of procurement of materials. Holding prices down to an annual increase on average of 5% or less in these ecconomic times is quite a feat and should be commended. How many other companies can hold the same minimal increases.

Ted
 
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