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Bob Axsom

Well Known Member
I read the one page article by Van on the last page of the latest RVator (and I will read some of the rest I'm sure) and I really respect his judgement on marketing and development. His history as I observe it is one of desire to develop and fly and very hesitantly commit to market. Wise man I think. I do not think there will be a big natural market for the RV-11 but he has created one by making builders out of a significant number of pilots. I think he is starting to move very carefully in the direction of satisfying that market. From the things he wrote in the short article I sense his feeling for making excellence a reality is being pursued once again and this will be an outstanding aircraft that will draw us into soaring. The man's marketing instincts, dedication to performance and his careful methodical development are inspiring.

Bob Axsom
 
Bob,

I've always viewed Van as an accidental business man. Don't get me wrong, I'm not putting him down, quite the contrarily, I have the utmost respected for his business and engineering skills.

The reason I say this is because of the way he modified one plane, eventually ending up with the RV-3 and started selling plans. Then was pushed into making a two seat version. The RV-6 didn't come about until a customer played around with the RV-4 parts to come up with a side-by-side plane. Seeing how that performed, Van designed the RV-6. All the while this was going on, he slowly expanded his parts business, until he came to the point where he can ship nearly completed airframes around the world.

It is also my understanding, but I could be wrong, that the nose wheel and sliders were first built by customers and then adopted by Van.

Next came the RV-10, from what I have heard, he was dragged, kicking and screaming, into the four place market.

The -12 was simply good business move and may lead him into full blown aircraft construction.

What I still can't figure out is how he provides free, unlimited builder support and still makes a profit. This, in addition to continuous product improvement. That company really has it going on!

There are a lot of companies out there who could learn a lot by studying the Van's business model.
 
N941WR said:
There are a lot of companies out there who could learn a lot by studying the Van's business model.
Click to expand...

Perhaps the evolution of Van's designs is a metaphor for the success of the company. Keep fitting, designing, trial, error, thought, work, rework, day after day, week after week, year after year, decade after decade. Never settle. Keep going. Bit by bit. A true testament to perseverance.
 
Discussed this over lunch today. I, for one, would probably put my -8A on hold to build an -11 if it became available. I don't think it will become available, for the very well stated reasons in this thread, until well after my -8A is finished.

That's okay, I'm willing to wait, but I will be one of the first orders.:)


Joe
 
N941WR said:
Bob,



It is also my understanding, but I could be wrong, that the nose wheel and sliders were first built by customers and then adopted by Van.
Click to expand...

A lot of customer ideas have been adopted by Van's over the years but tri gear on the RV-6 (about 1988) and the sliding canopy (about 1990) were both first done by Van's. The first sliding canopy to fly was built onto a customers RV-6A but the parts came from Van's.
 
They don't build many planes

One thing, likely due to FAA regs, they don't build many planes. They build one or two of each model and that is it. Same with the staff that are builders.

My point is that the people out there who have built ten or twenty RVs actually have more knowledge about building than the factory does.

Hans
 
nucleus said:
One thing, likely due to FAA regs, they don't build many planes. They build one or two of each model and that is it. Same with the staff that are builders.

My point is that the people out there who have built ten or twenty RVs actually have more knowledge about building than the factory does.

Hans
Click to expand...

Excuse me ????? ;)
 
nucleus said:
One thing, likely due to FAA regs, they don't build many planes. They build one or two of each model and that is it. Same with the staff that are builders.

My point is that the people out there who have built ten or twenty RVs actually have more knowledge about building than the factory does.

Hans
Click to expand...

Surprising statement from someone in MT.

(Art Chard territory) :rolleyes:
 
RV-11

Van's Aircraft: (Van, Marketing, Shipping Dept. et al.)

I know of two people at my local airport who would be building the RV-11 powered sailplane now if it were available. Of course, I'm one!:D

Hope it comes on line before I'm too old!:p
 
rvbuilder2002 said:
A lot of customer ideas have been adopted by Van's over the years but tri gear on the RV-6 (about 1988) and the sliding canopy (about 1990) were both first done by Van's. The first sliding canopy to fly was built onto a customers RV-6A but the parts came from Van's.
Click to expand...
Thanks for clarifying that for me. It looks like I was wrong and the urban legend is now history.
 
Four place push for Van

Next came the RV-10, from what I have heard, he was dragged, kicking and screaming, into the four place market
Click to expand...

I spoke with Van privately back in 1992 about a 4 place offering. At the time, I had one of my own on the drawing board. Van was very stand-offish; he listened but didn't react at all.

Of course, he's tapped into a very hot market, possibly by accident but who cares? He did have enough business acumen and personal work ethic to forge ahead into new territory. That in itself is commendable. And then he garnered a reputation for being honest with us as customers - again that's above board for many these days.

I have nothing but respect for the man. He's worked for it. He deserves the results.
 
N941WR said:
Thanks for clarifying that for me. It looks like I was wrong and the urban legend is now history.
Click to expand...

Well the one about the RV-6 is not...Van never thought a side by side would have very good performance so was resistant. Art Chard who was working for him at teh time began building one on his own. It performed pretty well, Van was convinced, and the rest is history.
 
Imagine if Vans had never been. What would we be flying? how different would eaa look? A real legend in the making. Thanks Vans.
 
My subjective opinion re Van's Success

N941WR said:
Bob,

I've always viewed Van as an accidental business man. Don't get me wrong, I'm not putting him down, quite the contrarily, I have the utmost respected for his business and engineering skills.

The reason I say this is because of the way he modified one plane, eventually ending up with the RV-3 and started selling plans. Then was pushed into making a two seat version. The RV-6 didn't come about until a customer played around with the RV-4 parts to come up with a side-by-side plane. Seeing how that performed, Van designed the RV-6. All the while this was going on, he slowly expanded his parts business, until he came to the point where he can ship nearly completed airframes around the world.

It is also my understanding, but I could be wrong, that the nose wheel and sliders were first built by customers and then adopted by Van.

Next came the RV-10, from what I have heard, he was dragged, kicking and screaming, into the four place market.

The -12 was simply good business move and may lead him into full blown aircraft construction.

What I still can't figure out is how he provides free, unlimited builder support and still makes a profit. This, in addition to continuous product improvement. That company really has it going on!

There are a lot of companies out there who could learn a lot by studying the Van's business model.
Click to expand...


Disclaimer: I am a mechanical engineer & registered professional engineer.

Van has been able to overcome two traits that many engineers struggle with:

1. NIH (not invented here)
2. Trying for perfection instead of continuous improvement (in industry, one often hears the phrase "sooner or later it's time to shoot the engineer and start production," or "perfection is the enemy of good enough.")

Because Van's Aircraft was founded by an engineer, the company has never suffered from the "curse of the bean-counters." Over 30+ years Van has returned a portion of the company's profits into capital equipment improvement as well as product improvement.

The contrasting case to make my point is General Motors, once the greatest corporation in the world. GM reached its zenith when Ed Cole, one of our greatest engineers, was president and started its race for oblivion during the reign of "famous" cost-account Roger Smith.

I agree with the other commentors that Van's success is well-deserved. I am thankful that some day I will have a well-engineered 200mph RV-7 to fly istead of my 140mph Cherokee. I'm pretty sure I'll like getting 20mpg instead of 14mpg too.

Larry Tompkins
 
RV-11

I very much hope Van's finishes his RV-11 and we see a kit version on the market in a few years.

I am one of those power pilots who would love to learn how to soar. I hope Van's instincts are not correct about the lack of appeal of the motor glider to the power crowd. Yes there are definitely times I want to go from point A to point B quickly, but I also love those days where I just cruise the coastline enjoying flying and the scenery. A motor glider would be perfect for that as well as getting to experience the joy of real soaring.

Van, please keep plugging along!
 
The other nice thing about an RV-11 kit: It would bring a 'modern' single seat kit to the van's line.

(The RV-3 is totally great, but you know what I mean)
 
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I believe Van loved the Grumman Tiger so much that he didn't think he could build a better one. He did. Much bigger, quicker and more fun to fly.
 
You guys can correct me if I'm wrong but I remember Art Chards side by side, it's now owned by someone in Hillsboro. It had a slider canopy if memory serves me correct which Art designed and built before working for Vans Aircraft. He was his own designer and superb craftsman from what I gathered seeing the Chard aircraft.
 
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