Terrible awful piece of junk
n41va said:
Just a question. What does Vans and the "RV community"
think of the Harmon Rocket? I am looking into building one. I have grown up
in the back seat of an RV-8 and love the RV community so I just want to
know your feelings on the Harmon and how Vans looks at it. Also any
suggestions, its an add on kit to the 4 right?
Thanks Kelby
Rocket? Terrible awful piece of junk
Kidding its ALL GOOD!
Really if you are going to compare say a 180 HP RV-4 to a 250 HP Rocket, I
think you can say the differnce is 70 HP. I am not sure how the Rocket Guys
feel (probably pretty good because they have an awesome airplane). I know
some like to think of the Rocket as a totally different plane. What ever.
A Rocket or Rocket II was "invented" by John Harmon over 10 years ago. It is
a RV-4 with a stretched and wider forward fuselage, slightly clipped wings
and a 250 hp engine. You buy about $8,000 worth of parts from Harmon and a
RV-4 kit from Van's with duplicated parts deleted (full kit price is $14,000 minus
credits). The kit is not quick build or pre-punched.
Than Mark Fredrick, super nice guy and RV/Rocket II builder in Texas started
offering a one stop shopping for a complete Rocket kit and later a QB called
the F-1, his version of the Harmon's Rocket II. The price of Mark's kits go up
to almost $40,000 to $45,000 (EVO wing). The EVO wing, is tapered and has
slotted flaps to maintain reasonable stall speed. For comparison the RV-8 QB
is under $27,000.
Here are some sites to help you make your decision, but remember you are
talking about a significant difference in price. The airframe will be about
$8,000 to $20,000 more. The engine will be about $15,000 more (all very
round numbers). Depending on if you build a Harmon Rocket II from parts or
a Team Rocket F-1 QB, what engine you choose and what kind of wheeling
dealing you can do. I do not include the prop but the Rocket prop will be a
about the same or way more depending the way you go, two or three blade.
Not only will the engine for the Rocket be more expensive it will burn more
fuel. However Randy Pflanzer at
http://www.pflanzer-aviation.com/
will tell you how he flys at lower power settings to match RV speeds and
achieve similar or better burn; I believe that's possible with a careful throttle
hand, although what's the point? You only live once, go fast.
Here are some good Rocket Sites:
http://www.harmonrocket.com/
http://www.teamrocketaircraft.com/
http://www.vincesrocket.com/
http://www.f1-rocketboy.com/index.html
Exterior Dimensions.....RV-4...............Rocket II
Span....................... 23 ft................21 ft. 10 in.
Length.....................20 ft 4 in...........21 ft. 6 in.
Height..................... 5 ft 5 in..............5 ft. 7 in.
Wing Area.................110 sq ft..........109 sq. ft
Performance ...........RV-4 ...............Rocket II
Top Speed................213 mph.............250 mph (note 200hp RV-8 222mph)
Cruise Speed 75%......201 mph.............230 mph
Econ. Cruise 55%.......182 mph.............215 mph
Redline.....................210 mph.............275 mph
Rate of Climb............2450 fpm (solo)...3100 fpm (gross)
Stall..........................54 mph..............55 mph
(Note: you will pay dearly in gas to go fast in a Rocket)
Weights
Empty Weight............905 lbs..............1200 lbs
Gross Weight...........1500 lbs..............2000 lbs
Loadings
Wing Loading.......13.64 lb/sq-ft.........16.4 lbs/sq-ft.
Power Loading....10.0-8.33 lb/hp..........5.9 lbs/hp.
Powerplant/Systems
Engine ................150-180 hp.........I0-540-C4B5/250 hp
Fuel Capacity.........32 US gal...............42 US gal
(Note: during Cafe Foundation Tri-aviathon, the RV-stalled at 44.78 mph and
the Harmon Rocket II stalled at 56.38 mph. A differnce of about 11 mph. Not
sure about claimed figures, but the Cafe foundation required power to be
under 14" hg. I am not sure how Dave Anders got 45 mph out of his RV-4 but
that is incredible and obviously better than Van's specs.
You can do your own comparison between the RV-8 and Rocket II/F-1. RV-8
with 200 hp is about 10 mph faster across the board than a 180 hp RV-4).
There is NO doubt the Rocket II/F-1 is a hot rod. However I guess it is like
comparing a Turbo Porsche with a Non-Turbo Porsche, both can scare you
and triple the national speed limit. Clearly you could build a RV-4/8 "light"
with fixed pitch, Carb, 150-180 HP and save a bunch more money and still go
fast. I tried to keep it to the facts. My choice to build a RV-7 was two fold, I
had a RV-4 and I already had an overhauled O-360/Hartzell ready to go.
Now if you serious about it than write the check, sell a kidney. I think the
most important thing is to get into the air, Fire Breathing Rocket, or fixed
pitch 150 HP RV-4, both are fun. Just because the needle is a little further
around the airspeed indicator, there is no direct correlation to the fun meter.
Flying a RV is fun, whether its called a RV or a Rocket.
The thing I love about the Rocket is the looks, and its fast enough to race at
Reno in the sportsman class.
http://www.sportclass.com/race_results.html
A basic 180 hp RV is hard pressed to make the 200 mph lap speeds at Reno,
but we can try. (remember pulling G's and density altitude not straight and
level). I would love it if they had another sportsman's type class with max
cubic inche limit of 360 Vs. 650.
Racing at Reno is a goal and I'd like to do it in metal. The only metal piston
kit planes that will qualify easily are the: Questair Venture, RocketII/F-1 or
Swearingen SX300. They are all expensive but the Rocket is a bargain. People
think lift, drag, thrust and gravity are the 4 forces involved in flying.
WRONG, money is. The faster you go, money flow must increase
exponentially. It is a law.
Good luck George
PS how does Mr. Van feel? If you ever meet Van, you will notice he is not a
man of many words. However rumor has it that while at a fly-in many years
ago, a Rocket took off and Van causally said, "Nice Plane", as a nearby
bystander over herd (allegedly). Officially you will not get Van's to
acknowledge it for liability reasons. Lets face it. The airframe is
near stock and flying up to 40 mph faster than the previous Vne. May be
Van's limit is conservative and the small changes in the Rocket account for
the difference in speed limitation. Not saying the Rocket is not safe, and no
doubt Van knows where all those RV-4 kits with XYZ parts deleted are going.
How do RV'ers feel? Who cares build what you want.
