RV7Guy
Well Known Member
I'd like to preface the following rant with the fact that I actually enjoy fiberglass work and am not a fiberglass hater like many. I have considerable experience working with a variety of materials including vacuum bagging with glass and carbon. My plane is an RV7 so your kitglass may vary slightly. I molded all of my tail glass into the various parts. These can be seen at Brad Olivers site at www.rv7factory.com under the tips section. Also understand, for me, all fiberglass work must be perfect and I didn't stop until it was.
Facts- Van's uses to OEM's for their glass. The cowl and wheelpants are made from an Epoxy glass lay up. The wingtips and tail glass are polyester resin with significant gel coating.
The gel coated polyester parts are relatively easy to work with although you must understand that there are many voids in the glass that are covered by the gel coat. These need to be discovered and filled or they will manifest themselves later.
My real frustration came with the cowl. As I began my prep by liberally washing the cowl with acetone and sanding with 150 grit paper, I noticed that much of the cowl had voids in the areas of the honeycomb structure. Voids are simply a lack epoxy to fill the weave or structure.
I sprayed a coat of Feather fill primer on the cowl to see how extensive the problem was. The primer really brings out the problems and it was much worse than I suspected. My first thought based on my experience, was that this was a very simple fix by adding more epoxy to the layup during manufacturing.
There are many techniques to fill the inadequate layup. Some use epoxy and microfiller squeegeed in. Others use Rage or other types of fillers. I used a few different techniques to see what worked best.
When I thought I was really close to being done with the filling, I sprayed on 3 relatively heavy coats of Feather Fill primer on the cowl. I was still shocked at how much was still unfilled!!! I now filled the remainder of voids by "fingerpainting" Feather Fill into the voids.
This is when I realized, "okay, I like working with this stuff and I'm totally frustrated. I can imagine what the average builder is going through." I wrote and email to Van's asking why the cowl quality was so inconsistent with the quality of the rest of the kit and why to different types of glass stuff was being used. Regarding the cowl I mentioned that the fix was rather simple.
I received an email back from Van's that said if they had to add more epoxy the price would go up. Regarding the polyester glass stuff, he said that polyester was cheaper and easier for the end user to work with. So where is the logic? The cowl pieces are the biggest glass pieces in the kit and the most visible, so why are they the toughest to work with?
I replied and said that Van's was probably the major income source for these OEM's. (may or may not be accurate) If Van himself called and said, "the glass quality is not to my standards, please fix," I'll bet the cowl would be improved.
I also noted in my reply that the fix,(in my estimation) would only require 6-8 oz of additional epoxy to fix the problem. Our retail price of epoxy would put this at roughly $1 per ounce. At wholesale, (manufacturers price) it would only be about 1/2 to 2/3's of that. So, $6-8 retail for higher quality cowl, I'm in!!!
Finally, I said that if the kit prices were raised a nominal amount for improved glass work, sales would not suffer. I don't believe anyone would make the decision to not buy based on an increase of a few dollars. This is especially true when you realize it is going to cost you more than that to fill the cowl when you get to that point.
Now where everyone can step in and affect change for future builders, the reply from Van's also included the statement, "we don't get that many complaints on the fiberglass."
For those who have completed their planes or are in the process of working on the glass, simply send an email to Van's to provide a few thoughts on the quality.
Please understand that I'm not complaining about the overall kit quality. The past couple of years have been some of the most rewarding of my life and I love my 7. I will be traveling the Country proudly flying the Van's flag and preaching the benefits of the RV line to who ever will listen.
My only purpose to make Van's aware that the glass work is probably the lowest quality point of the kit. I believe they don't receive more complaints is that the glass is usually at the end of the project. We get caught up in the process and when done we forget the undesireable things.
Lets help out those behind us in the process.
Facts- Van's uses to OEM's for their glass. The cowl and wheelpants are made from an Epoxy glass lay up. The wingtips and tail glass are polyester resin with significant gel coating.
The gel coated polyester parts are relatively easy to work with although you must understand that there are many voids in the glass that are covered by the gel coat. These need to be discovered and filled or they will manifest themselves later.
My real frustration came with the cowl. As I began my prep by liberally washing the cowl with acetone and sanding with 150 grit paper, I noticed that much of the cowl had voids in the areas of the honeycomb structure. Voids are simply a lack epoxy to fill the weave or structure.
I sprayed a coat of Feather fill primer on the cowl to see how extensive the problem was. The primer really brings out the problems and it was much worse than I suspected. My first thought based on my experience, was that this was a very simple fix by adding more epoxy to the layup during manufacturing.
There are many techniques to fill the inadequate layup. Some use epoxy and microfiller squeegeed in. Others use Rage or other types of fillers. I used a few different techniques to see what worked best.
When I thought I was really close to being done with the filling, I sprayed on 3 relatively heavy coats of Feather Fill primer on the cowl. I was still shocked at how much was still unfilled!!! I now filled the remainder of voids by "fingerpainting" Feather Fill into the voids.
This is when I realized, "okay, I like working with this stuff and I'm totally frustrated. I can imagine what the average builder is going through." I wrote and email to Van's asking why the cowl quality was so inconsistent with the quality of the rest of the kit and why to different types of glass stuff was being used. Regarding the cowl I mentioned that the fix was rather simple.
I received an email back from Van's that said if they had to add more epoxy the price would go up. Regarding the polyester glass stuff, he said that polyester was cheaper and easier for the end user to work with. So where is the logic? The cowl pieces are the biggest glass pieces in the kit and the most visible, so why are they the toughest to work with?
I replied and said that Van's was probably the major income source for these OEM's. (may or may not be accurate) If Van himself called and said, "the glass quality is not to my standards, please fix," I'll bet the cowl would be improved.
I also noted in my reply that the fix,(in my estimation) would only require 6-8 oz of additional epoxy to fix the problem. Our retail price of epoxy would put this at roughly $1 per ounce. At wholesale, (manufacturers price) it would only be about 1/2 to 2/3's of that. So, $6-8 retail for higher quality cowl, I'm in!!!
Finally, I said that if the kit prices were raised a nominal amount for improved glass work, sales would not suffer. I don't believe anyone would make the decision to not buy based on an increase of a few dollars. This is especially true when you realize it is going to cost you more than that to fill the cowl when you get to that point.
Now where everyone can step in and affect change for future builders, the reply from Van's also included the statement, "we don't get that many complaints on the fiberglass."
For those who have completed their planes or are in the process of working on the glass, simply send an email to Van's to provide a few thoughts on the quality.
Please understand that I'm not complaining about the overall kit quality. The past couple of years have been some of the most rewarding of my life and I love my 7. I will be traveling the Country proudly flying the Van's flag and preaching the benefits of the RV line to who ever will listen.
My only purpose to make Van's aware that the glass work is probably the lowest quality point of the kit. I believe they don't receive more complaints is that the glass is usually at the end of the project. We get caught up in the process and when done we forget the undesireable things.
Lets help out those behind us in the process.