Just a quick follow up - I spoke with right wing pilot David Myers a few minutes ago. (He has a phone number on the team web site)

I asked him specifically what mods were done the the 0320 engines other than high compression cylinders - none except the fuel nozzle jets were slightly enlarged to accommodate higher fuel flow for the 160+ HP.

The single most perplexing item in the system, for me, is the mechanical fuel pump. I asked about it. They have always used the stock Lycoming pump.

Very interesting. I could save over $2 a gallon on fuel by burning 91 octane E10 fuel from Walmart. :)
 
49clippper

david,
I thought they burned pure ethanol, not 10% like you mentioned. You would not need the increased fuel flow for the 10% I would not think.
Jim
RV-6
Aero Estates
 
Experience with ethanol

In Brazil we have been using ethanol in Lycoming engines for the last 10 years. Most agricultural aircraft equipped with lycon IO540 are certified by Brazilian authorities for ethanol. We just change fuel noozles because we use a higher fuel flow (24 gph in cruise instead of 17 gph). You must take care of aluminum fuel lines and tanks because of corrosion and add a cold weather start system because you wont get to start the engine below 20 celsius.
 
fantastic airshow

Very interesting discussion on ethanol, but the airshow performance with the 4 identical RV-3s is just outstanding. Beautiful maneuvers and even the Blue Angles or Thunderbirds don't do hammerheads.
Bill McLean
RV-4 slider
lower Alabama:)
 
Why wait??

I'm keeping my fingers crossed that the EPA will drop the BS ethanol mandate
Click to expand...

Why wait? If the Vanguard squadron doesn't convince you nothing else will.


I thought they burned pure ethanol, not 10% like you mentioned. You would not need the increased fuel flow for the 10% I would not think.
Jim
Click to expand...

According to their own accounts they mix and match any and all combinations of avgas, ethanol and mogas with or without ethanol.
While no one will certify the mechanical fuel pump for ethanol, after watching the Vanguard squadron perform for over 10 years, I am no longer concerned about a mechanical fuel pump failure due to ethanol intolerance.

Mogas is now more than $2.- less per gallon in these parts of the USA.
Don't want to hear anyone complaining about 6 dollar avgas.


]http://www.vansairforce.com/community/showthread.php?t=115088&highlight=mogas
Click to expand...
 
WillyEyeBall said:
Very interesting discussion on ethanol, but the airshow performance with the 4 identical RV-3s is just outstanding. Beautiful maneuvers and even the Blue Angles or Thunderbirds don't do hammerheads.
Bill McLean
RV-4 slider
lower Alabama:)
Click to expand...

I agree - I saw them in LaCrosse WI last month and they were spectacular. I was more impressed with their flying skills than with any other act at the show - Blue Angels included.
 
Don't forget about ethanol's effect on vapor pressure
Click to expand...

Constant flow return line : End of vapor lock story!

It really is very simple, the hardest part is overcoming the tide of naysayers,
most of whom have never even tried to use mogas with ethanol.


In the face of 4 very successful (Vanguard squadron) and public users of ethanol gasoline and many years (more than 10 years) of problem free engine operation the demons of vapor lock and detonation keep most pilots away from even trying.

I am not trying to sell you anything but give that fuel a try sometime and you'll be pleasantly surprised. Although none of the Vanguard airplanes has any modifications done to the fuel system other than enlarging the fuel injectors for the higher fuel flow delivery of pure (90%) ethanol, most of us still won't trust them. What about vapor lock, what about detonation, if that worries you like it did me, install a constant flow return line and you won't need to worry about vapor lock any longer.
 
N427EF said:
Constant flow return line : End of vapor lock story!

It really is very simple, the hardest part is overcoming the tide of naysayers,
most of whom have never even tried to use mogas with ethanol.


In the face of 4 very successful (Vanguard squadron) and public users of ethanol gasoline and many years (more than 10 years) of problem free engine operation the demons of vapor lock and detonation keep most pilots away from even trying.

I am not trying to sell you anything but give that fuel a try sometime and you'll be pleasantly surprised. Although none of the Vanguard airplanes has any modifications done to the fuel system other than enlarging the fuel injectors for the higher fuel flow delivery of pure (90%) ethanol, most of us still won't trust them. What about vapor lock, what about detonation, if that worries you like it did me, install a constant flow return line and you won't need to worry about vapor lock any longer.
Click to expand...

I used MOGAS with ethanol in my old J-3 Cub about ten year ago, and it turned the rubber in the fuel system (lines, carburetors, seals) to goo....

I believe that ethanol CAN be used safely Ernst, but the fuel system needs to be built (or at least evaluated) for it - from the filler cap to the intake valve. I've had vapor lock with 100LL - you just deal with it. I don't like the fact that yo'll lose a lot of range with ethanol because of its lower energy - but if you fly short legs or locally...who cares? But using it is a system that hasn't been examined for incompatible materials is not a good risk trade in my book.
 
I believe that ethanol CAN be used safely Ernst
Click to expand...

Yes it can and what I have pointed out many times is that it is particularly simple to do this in an RV.
Aluminum fuel tanks and caps with Viton rings are standard Van kit parts. No changes needed except for the little 10c O-ring on the tank drain.
Aluminum fuel lines or teflon if you prefer, both are ok. Airflow Performance fuel injection and you have a complete fuel system tolerant of ethanol.

A return line is T'd out of the mechanical pump and T'd into the Airflow purge line, cost about $30 for a hose and fittings.

I don't like the fact that you'll lose a lot of range with ethanol because of its lower energy
Click to expand...

This is true for those using pure ethanol but it simply makes no difference when flying with E10, in fact I am able to lean back one full GPH when using mogas.
I am not sure why but vapor pressure and better atomization are probably the reason. All this without loosing any airspeed at all.

For long cross country flights, I fill up with 100LL because that is what is available in most places.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.