mcjon77

Well Known Member
Hi guys,

I'm new here and am astounded by the number of people on this board that have built multiple RVs/homebuilts. That has led me to a question. Is it possible for someone to use their experience building RVs/other homebuilts to fulfill the experience requirement to sit for the A&P exams? Have you heard of anyone doing this? Is it even legal?

I know that one doesn't need an A&P license to work on their homebuilts, but it would be something nice to have, especially if you own certified aircraft as well.

Thanks in advance,

Jon
 
My understanding is that at least one regular poster on this forum has done that.

Gary Sobek form southern Calif, IIRC.

Hopefully he will chime in here, nothing like hearing things straight from the source.
 
A&P Supervision

I believe that the hours have to be supervised by an A&P who signs off on your logged hours. Then you are good to go.

Hans
 
Technically.....

according to the FARs all "training" for the A&P certificate has to be on certificated aircraft. Reason being that your maintenance has to meet the requirements of the type certificate (which experimentals don't have). When I got mine in the early '70s, this was strictly enforced around my area.
Now, having said that, I do know of several people who have used their building experience as meeting some of the required experience. It seems to vary between FAA offices.
My recommendation is to talk with your local FSDO or MIDO and work with them.
 
My understanding is that at least one regular poster on this forum has done that.

Gary Sobek from southern Calif, IIRC.

Hopefully he will chime in here, nothing like hearing things straight from the source.
Negative: Gary attended A&P night school...
 
I know another person who has done this. I'm hearing from a couple of people that the FAA isn't very excited about this, has started to disallow time logged while home building, and is now pushing for only allowing certification through an approved training syllabus. They don't even appear to want to approve getting training on the job working under an A&P or IA anymore - which is what I've been doing part-time for the last several years. I'm on track to take the tests in the next few months, but don't know for sure now whether they will accept my logged experience anymore. :mad:
 
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Is it possible for someone to use their experience building RVs/other homebuilts to fulfill the experience requirement to sit for the A&P exams? Have you heard of anyone doing this? Is it even legal?
It is a simple thing to contact the FAA with your query. My factory shop experience as an aircraft production worker certainly counted even though technically speaking, taxpayer owned combat aircraft are not "certified" by the FAA. Similarly, I would think building an RV will fulfill not all but a significant portion of the "practical experience" criteria to acquire an A&P license. Keep in mind though that not all FSDO's read from the same script. Give yours a call to get a local answer.
 
Negative: Gary attended A&P night school...

Paul, thanks for straightening me out.

I might have had him confused with someone else, or just bad information in the first place.

Apologies, if needed, to Gary.
 
What about applying for a repairman certificate for a RV you purchased flying? Is this possible with prior RV building experience??
 
The only people I personally know who got their A&P without going to a Part 147 school came out of the military and were military aircraft mechanics. When I was attending a part 147 school I believe the time requirement for class and lab was 2000 hours for airframe and powerplant and a few hundred hours for general. I had to log these hours by punching a clock and had to submit these time cards to the DE before for the oral and practical test. By far the A&P probably took 3 to 4 times longer than it took me to study and train for a private, instrument, multi engine and commercial ratings. I don't think the A&P curriculum is that difficult there is just a lot of time involved. I always tell people that time spent getting pilot ratings is a walk in the park compared to getting an A&P.
 
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No A&P because while you are building, it's not an airplane, it's just various pieces of aluminum. Now if you used the experience on your repairmen certificate to apply for a A&P, you might be able to talk an FAA guy into that on a good day in the right FSDO. That said, as a professional mech, i'd cringe at that big time. Certified airplanes are a completely different game than RV's.

As for a repairmen cert for a bought RV, never heard of that being done.
 
Yes, you can

It depends, of course, on your local FAA guy, but I'm approved to take the exam based on building N17HH and an earlier project with wings on a Moni. I already had the repairman ticket when this was OK'd. I had a local DME vouch for me as part of the process and I'm sure that helped. I'm not saying it's always OK, but it is OK in a case where the FAA person OK's it and it has been done.
 
NOPE!

What about applying for a repairman certificate for a RV you purchased flying? Is this possible with prior RV building experience??

The only person eligible for the repairman certificate on an amateur-built aircraft is the person that constructed a major portion of that aircraft. One to an aircraft, no exceptions.
 
Negative: Gary attended A&P night school...

Correct. It was a little over 3 years. Something like 20 hours of school a week and a 40 hour a week job. IIRC, the minimum FAA Requirement for an approved school is 1,980 hours. (just shy of 2,000 hours). Without the school, IIRC, you need 1.5 years airframe work under supervision and 1.5 years power plant work under supervision.

I had my A&P before I had a flying RV. Building the RV made the school VERY easy. RV building time DOES NOT count toward an A&P license. IMHO, the RV building time makes the A&P stuff easy.

ONLY the original major portion builder of an amateur built aircraft can get the repairmen certificate. NO EXCEPTIONS. ANY A&P can do the once a year condition inspection on an EXPERIMENTAL aircraft.
 
Is it possible for someone to use their experience building RVs/other homebuilts to fulfill the experience requirement to sit for the A&P exams?

As others have said, talk to your local FSDO. They're the only ones who can make that decision.
 
Thanks for the info, guys.

I wanted the A&P primarily for personal satisfatiction, and to have the opportunity to work on certified aircraft, if I ever purchase one. I guess I'll just get started building Afterwards, if the time counts, great! If not, no big loss. I'll just have to find an A&P who will let me do owner assisted annuals. Besides, all of this is a few years off, anyway,

Jon
 
Well this is a subject that I am interested it. I went to EAA and in their GOVT FAQ page in the homebuilder headquarters section this question is addressed. According to the FAQ, yes you can use the construction of an aircraft for the experience requirements of an A&P license but it will be evaluated on a case by case basis. Below is an excerpt from the FAA Examiner Handbook 8300.10
5-1135 EXPERIENCE REQUIREMENTS. Section 65.77 requires the applicant to have documented practical experience in maintaining airframes and/or powerplants . At least 18 months of practical experience is required for the appropriate rating requested. For a certificate with both ratings, the requirement is for at least 30 months experience concurrently performing the duties appropriate to both ratings. If the 30 months concurrently performing the duties appropriate to both ratings has not been met, then calculate each rating separately using the 18-month requirement for each.

A. The practical experience must provide the applicant with basic knowledge of and skills with the procedures, practices, materials, tools, machine tools, and equipment used in aircraft construction, alteration, maintenance, and inspection.

B. With exception to the JSAMTCC A&P certification program experience gained from the military, work as an airframe or powerplant mechanic or work on an experimental amateur-built aircraft will be evaluated on its own merits to determine whether it fulfills the experience requirements. When evaluating military experience, aviation safety inspector’s (ASI) and ASTs are not to accept military occupational specialty (MOS) or Air Force Specialty Codes (AFSC) “carte blanche” as qualifications to accepting experience of § 65.77 . Even though the MOS suggest authorization for either the airframe, powerplant , or both the A&P certificates, the inspector will only endorse FAA Form 8610-2, Airman Certificate and/or Rating Application, after ensuring, by a thorough interview and detailed review of records, that the person qualifies under § 65.77 .

C. An applicant is not expected to be highly proficient in overhauls, major repairs, or major alterations in the minimum 18 months experience.

D. Powerplant tests will include questions and projects on propellers that must be completed successfully regardless of the applicant’s experience.

E. In evaluating documented part-time practical aviation mechanic experience, an equivalent of 18 months (or 30 months) based on a standard 40-hour workweek is acceptable. The months need not be consecutive. A standard workweek has 8 hours per day for 5 days per week, thus totaling 40 hours per week and approximately 160 hours per month.

If you plan on using the construction of an AB aircraft to meet the experience requirements for an A&P, EAA had this advice:
We suggest a three ring binder be used to keep a running log of the date, time and what was accomplished. As the log is entirely up to the builder to keep, it would not be a bad idea to have it validated from time to time by a friendly A & P with an entry such as "I have reviewed the work hours and the log of the work and found them to be correct. Signed John Smith, A & P, etc." Another way to validate the log is to have it notarized and taken to the FAA inspector.
Here is a link to the EAA FAQ page, if you have access: http://members.eaa.org/home/homebui...e and Amateur-Built Experience.html#TopOfPage
 
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Part 43 Appendix A

If you are a registered owner of a certified aircraft and you hold at least a private pilots certificate there is a ton of work items you can do to your aircraft. These items are listed in FAR Part 43 Appendix A (c) Preventive Maintenance. I was surprised of all the work a aircraft owner could do to his/her own airplane. Even If you have an A&P you still can not perform an annual inspection and will need an IA. There are a lot of IA's that will perform owner assisted annuals. I highly recommend this, it is worth every penny. There is a lot of stuff you can learn from this process. It is not a bad idea IMHO to have a second set of eyes looking at you airplane. I have learned a lot from the IA that I use.
 
100 hr. inspection

One other minor thing. An A&P can sign off a 100 hr. inspection on a certificated aircraft. The 100 hr. is basically the same inspection as the annual but the annual must be signed off by an IA.
 
WOW! I have to say that i am in awe by the sheer awesomeness of this forum. I postied this question less than 36 hours ago and got more good info than I could have dreamed of. Thanks JakeC, for the FAA and EAA links. That is exactly what I was looking for. The funny part is that the time requirements actually provide me with another reason to go the slow build route with my (hopefully) future RV-7.:D.
 
As others have said, it all depends on what your local FSDO will accept. While I spent 2 years going to school to get mine, I personally know of three people who had an A&P vouch for them so they could just test for their tickets. One guy had never done anything other than paint planes for an airline; another personally owned a couple of GA planes and worked on them himself; and the third person was a GA parts telephone order taker. All of this serves as a dumbing down of the ticket. IMHO.