E

esco

Well Known Member
Friend
Does anyone have direct experience purchasing or operating the "used mid time lycoming" from Vans? What was your cost, experience with installation, and experience with operations?
I'm considering building a 9a, have decided to go with an 0-320, and looking for powerplant options.

I don't like the outlay for new or reman, even though I do like the time it saves, as well as available warranty;
Rebuilding saves money and teaches quite a bit, but that adds months(?) before I fly, and in the end may only save few dollars;
Third option is to roll the dice, get a mid- to high-time engine, and weigh dollars, performance, and time.

I've searched VAF and found folks who purchased new, new clones, or refurb engines; those who rolled their own; but no one with a mid time from Vans? Has anyone tried this?

Thanks,
 
Van's only sells new engines. If you're looking for a usable used engine, you'll have to look in Trade-a-Plane, find one from a salvage company such as Wentworth, or find an individual who has one for sale.
 
I wanted an IO-360-A for my RV but was unwilling to spend the $34K for a new one, so I found a first-time runout, 2000-hr-since-new, with logbook, IO-360-A3B6D for $8000. All accessories except alternator were included. I overhauled the engine myself and sent out the various parts to those vendors who I thought had the experience to properly service those parts. I ended up spending $11400, including overhauling all the accessories (I overhauled my own Honda Civic alternator similar to how PlanePower does it and used a Skytec starter). Also included in that figure is dual Lightspeed Plasma II with crank trigger. The cylinders were overhauled by ECI and cylinder bores done with their nickel-carbide treatment. Airflow Performance overhauled the Bendix FI. All parts that aren't experimental are yellow-tagged.

So, for the sum of $19400, I have a completely overhauled engine and I have first-hand knowledge of all internal parts. There really isn't that much to these engines.
 
Obviously the route that hgerhardt took is the best way to go, but I didn't feel up to taking on the rebuild task myself, nor did I have a good mentor to look over my shoulder.

Companies like Barrett and Aerosport will sell engines that they've rebuilt. The problem that I had with this approach was for a 10-15% savings over a new engine from Van's, I still had a used engine. You don't know how long various parts, like the crank, will remain within specs. If they fall below specs at the next overhaul it could get expensive. The other side of the arguement is that you may never see the next overhaul, since that's probably 10 years away.

Van's usually offers a small discount at both Snf and OSH. This is the least expensive way to get a new engine. In my opinion, a new engine had a better resell value if/when I every sell my plane.

If you go the core route and rebuild, you need to do your reasearch. I found several major vendors (like one already mentioned here) gave out bad information. I was told a particular engine would work in my RV-10. But after talking to Lycoming, it would have taken a significant amount of work and expense. It would have cost more than a new engine and then I would still have a kluge. There is a benefit of having all the vendors at OSH. One of the Lycoming guys spent a half hour educating me on all the issues with this particular engine and gave me manuals to back up what he was explaining.

There is no right answer here and only hindsight will tell which is the correct decision. Only you can determine what's important to you.
 
getting smarter - slowly

Kyle:
Apologize, I misread Van's website, thinking they could provide used engines; this is the least expensive mistake I've made to date. I also received a short email from Van's to that effect.

Bob:
Thanks for the input. New from Van's is still easiest and fastest; better resale and potential for OSH discount are two valuable tips - thanks.


hgerhardt:
Still mulling this one over. I can do the work, and it will cost the fewest dollars, but take the most time, and probably put me in the 40-hour test period (vice a potential for 25.)
 
I bought a O320D3G with 1720 hrs on it for 7250. ran it for 250 hours and just traded it for a new ECI engine and got 5000. for the core. I think that if you shop around a mid to high time engine is a great way to get the plane flying and you can upgrade later.
 
I suggest that if you have the dollars, a new engine should be seriously considered - a core, and the cost to rebuild properly, is within a few thousand dollars of new. In the grand scheme of things, and taking into account resale value, the chance to specify exactly what you want, and warranty, and the fact that (depending where you go) the engine will be delivered run in and tested for an hour, a new engine is a good choice.
And don't assume Van's supplied Lycoming is the best choice without looking into the builders out there who supply new engines (I got mine from AeroSport). These builders have excellent reputations with RV builders, you can specify (and discuss with them) exactly what you want in terms of fuel system, ignition, accessories, paint, they are immediately available for advice and after sales service. There is a lot of value in that.
Bill Brooks
Ottawa, Canada
RV-6A finishing
 
Not the route I've ever used, but one thing not mentioned here that would have been great using a mid timed engine is initial test flights. I was not comfortable (being new to the RV world) wide open to break in an engine. It would have been nice to slowly build up to top cruise speed. It would have been nice not worring about an engine at all (providing you know the used engine's condition, previous owner) buring the first few flights. One always has to worry about any engine but most problems turn up on the first flights.
Ron
 
C-GRVT said:
I... a core, and the cost to rebuild properly, is within a few thousand dollars of new.... ...There is a lot of value in that.
Bill Brooks
Ottawa, Canada
RV-6A finishing
Click to expand...

Don't know what your definition of "a few thousand dollars" is, but my "proper rebuild" saved me $18,900 over the cost of a new Van's experimental Lyc (subtracting the dual Lightspeed Plasmas that I also added during the rebuild). My only drawback is that my labor is not warranteed, although most of the parts are. And, I suppose the resale value is somewhat diminished, although the more hours I put on the engine, the less important that becomes.

Bottom line is, if you're building for the express purpose of selling the airplane when you're done, then buy new!
 
I suggest new experimental. Talk to someone like Americas Engines in Tulsa who sell new ECI ready to install or kit ECI engines. Either way a much better value for an engine built with PMA parts.

My 2 cents

Pat

RV8
RV8A
J3Cub
RV10
 
You must log in or register to reply here.