sbalmos

Well Known Member
Sponsor
Hi all,

First a preface - unless I hear suggestions otherwise, I will just have Vans throw new aileron parts in with my fuselage crate. It's only a few weeks away anyway.

While building my ailerons earlier this month, I read about how misdrilling, twist, or other general misalignment of the steel counterbalance tube was a common point of causing twist in the ailerons in the end. I had none of that. The counterbalance tubes were laid out flat/neutral on my work table. And after drilling, I was able to fit the spar skeleton together with the tubes clecoed to the nose ribs without a problem. Fit on the main skin/stiffener assemblies to the skeleton, no problem.

The problem came when fitting the nose skins on. I could swear the nose skins were really underbent from the factory. Trying to get them to conform was a massive pain. And when I finally did get it clecoed to the spar and main skins, the upward springback pressure of the nose skin popped a number of clecos and really tried to deform the main skins.

I should've probably just stopped there, in hindsight. But I went on, prepped everything, and cursed quite a bit as I forced the nose skin into place while riveting. Put on lots of weight on the main skins to keep down the resultant oilcanning while I drilled the trailing edges, thinking that the wedge would keep things in alignment.

IMG_20131204_205142_zpsq8nfcdfk.jpg


Well, I went to remove my aluminum angle I clecoed to the wedge, to keep it straight, while the RTV sealant I put on the wedge set up. As soon as the angle was off, the skins pulled away from the wedge at the oilcanning points in the skin. See below.

Left aileron:

IMG_20131222_095137_zpswefffai4.jpg


Right aileron:

IMG_20131222_095157_zpsmzl7zvxj.jpg


I really don't think it's twist, because in both pics, the left edge surface is the bottom skin, which when the whole aileron is laid on a table, is perfectly flat. It's just the top skin that has deformed.

Has anyone else ever seen this? Would I probably be correct in saying it was an underformed nose skin creating springback stress? I'm just trying to get other opinions so the same doesn't happen on the replacements.

Thanks! I'm now going to go find my asbestos flamesuit in the closet. :rolleyes:
 
I went back and looked at my build photos. I think you did everything right, but this is a challenging area. I had to use a lot of weight on the aileron top to get everything flat before drilling the trailing edge. I then used the same weights to bond the TE wedge in using proseal:
dcp_4718.jpg


BTW - if you put parchment paper on the bench and spray with with cooking spray, the proseal squeeze out is much easier to cleanup.
dcp_4714.jpg


I waited for a long time to get the proseal to be good and strong before removing the weights. The TE came out straight and strong. I'm not sure you even need the rivets. Be careful when you rivet the TE you don't curve it.
 
Thanks Dave. I followed the same TE procedure I did with the elevators, RTV backed by an angle from Lowes Aviation. I didn't keep the weight on while the RTV set up though - just clecoed to the angle. I think next time around I'll keep the weight on. Guess I have to borrow some bricks from my father next time. :D Guess a bag of water softener salt and some (at least I think they are) old heavy college textbooks aren't enough. Probably will do more prebending of the nose skin also.

As for cooking spray... Heh. My best friend, a newly-minted DiamondStar driver, was asking me if we're building a plane or baking cookies. :eek:
 
That looks just like mine looked and they came out straight. I used pro-seal as well, and some bricks and 2x6s to weight everything down. I should have let the proseal set up longer because it started to separate as I riveted, but either way it came out perfectly straight. Also, I needed to use 3.5 rivets to make up for the extra thickness of the proseal.

FWIW, I used no proseal on the flaps and they turned out perfectly straight as well, so I'm sure it's doable without proseal as well.

Chris
 
Same here!

That looks just like mine looked and they came out straight. I used pro-seal as well, and some bricks and 2x6s to weight everything down. I should have let the proseal set up longer because it started to separate as I riveted, but either way it came out perfectly straight. Also, I needed to use 3.5 rivets to make up for the extra thickness of the proseal.

FWIW, I used no proseal on the flaps and they turned out perfectly straight as well, so I'm sure it's doable without proseal as well.

Chris


Yep, twisted all to heck. 2x6's with concrete paver blocks on top. I pro sealed the rudder and elevators, but not the ailerons or flaps.
 
... and suddenly I'm starting to feel better. :) I think I'm going to go ahead and try riveting everything with bricks on top and see what happens. That was the other thing was when I stuck in -3 rivets, the tails just didn't look long enough at all. I'll use -3.5's.

At least I'm starting to get that feeling of "been there, done that" rather than "wow, they look like ****, you done gone screwed up big time".

Thanks!
 
Go ahead and rivet them and see how they turn out before ordering new parts. I'm willing to bet you'll be pleasantly surprised.
 
I am pleasantly surprised

Okay, okay... To quote Kurt, I am "pleasantly surprised". Went ahead and riveted the trailing edges tonight, after the replies here and also a near-verbatim "you'll be surprised" email from Ken at the factory.

Just a very slight wave in both, maybe 1/32" or so. The left aileron, which was worse off bowing-wise, does have a small twist in it, which I didn't notice before. But I think both are acceptably within "we'll see how good/bad they are when she flies" tolerance.

Right aileron edge:

IMG_20131223_215731_zps4ehwy1pp.jpg


Left aileron edge:

IMG_20131223_215803_zpsizvpl8yg.jpg


Thanks for the reassurances and notes to not knee-jerk ditch these pieces.
 
TRAILING EDGE ASSEMBLY

All these posts about trailing edge difficulties make me wonder how I ever built mine. Mine was an early kit before the instructions specified using pro-seal to align trailing edges. I was just real careful, I drilled and clecoed my edges to the work table and every thing came out very straight. No pro seal, no tape, not even any swearing. Thankfully I never saw the pro seal tips, or the latest double sided tape tips. Mine was kit 90054. I built the empanage in 1999. It worked and I never questioned the instructions.
 
All these posts about trailing edge difficulties make me wonder how I ever built mine. Mine was an early kit before the instructions specified using pro-seal to align trailing edges. I was just real careful, I drilled and clecoed my edges to the work table and every thing came out very straight. No pro seal, no tape, not even any swearing. Thankfully I never saw the pro seal tips, or the latest double sided tape tips. Mine was kit 90054. I built the empanage in 1999. It worked and I never questioned the instructions.

If I had to do it over I wouldn't use pro-seal, either. Came out fine either way; the pro-seal just resulted in a slightly thicker edge and more goop to clean out after riveting. It's surprising how much the trailing edge stiffens up after riveting, even without sealant, and a testament to how precisely engineered the pre-punched kits are.