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eh009us

Member
Just thinking out loud. Anyone else get this as well? Had several false starts on at least two -7 kits and a set of Bearhawk wings. I'll get into it, then start thinking ahead to what will happen with avgas (prices, availability), user fees, is this the plane I REALLY want, How many more years will I get to fly this after all the work (I'm only in my early 40's, so probably irrational), etc. Then sell the project at a marginal loss. Wife getting mildly frustrated, but still supportive of a build (she's the bomb) and LOVES TO FLY ! Made the mistake of showing her an RV-10 at the 2010 SnF. She knows only a -7 would be in the budget. I Have all of the tools and a detatched 3-car shop some would kill for. Oversized workbenches, air, sound system, the whole shebang. EAA metalwork course four years ago. PPI. Live near several builders in SE PA. Live two miles off the west end of KOQN, so of course I see a budies RV-7a flyover on occasion. So I ask myself...self, wtf ? you could have had the plane about done by now ! Lately, I often find myself thinking about certain videos a certain builder posted on his extensive build site before he flaked and pulled it down a while ago. Especially the "Big Bear" landing video and flying over the snow capped mountains with the music. Beautiful stuff. Great pilot. Miss the inpirational site.

Anyway, the point is, anyone else feel this anxiety about getting into a big project like this ? I suppose it's normal. This isn't nearly the biggest thing I've ever attempted for sure. I guess constant motivation would be the key for me. And to stop thinking so dam much. -E :confused::rolleyes:
 
Same question - different angle - how long have you been married? What made you think you could commit to her? How is that different than the airplane?

Less worry - more do. Get busy.
 
Rest assured, anxiety before and during are completely normal for 99% of us...or at least first time builders. If you're not anxious, you probably have no idea what you're getting into.

My advice is, you should be "all in" or you'll probably end up folding the tent at some point during the build. You have to be of the mindset, nothing is going to stop me from getting this thing flying...its that attitude that will see you through the trying times...its not all rosie. It takes a lot of dedication and I gotta say its the biggest commitment I've made outside of getting married. Its not a trivial thing.

But with all that being said...my only regret is I didnt start sooner, I spent about three years just 'thinking' about it, much like you are now. Good luck!
 
Worry is interest paid on trouble before it comes due.

eh009us said:
Anyway, the point is, anyone else feel this anxiety about getting into a big project like this ? I suppose it's normal. This isn't nearly the biggest thing I've ever attempted for sure. I guess constant motivation would be the key for me. And to stop thinking so dam much. -E :confused::rolleyes:
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Worry is interest paid on trouble before it comes due.
 
It doesn't happen often, but I have definitely have those moments. When it happens I find something else to occupy my brain.

You might look around and schedule some transition training in a 6/7/9. See if the plane is something you *want* to own. Then, like Dave suggested, buy one that has already been well loved by another owner.

If you finish the transition training and decide its not for you, then you can happily move on to a Bearhawk or Kitfox or Cessna or whatever knowing that you did your due diligence.

Building isn't for everyone, don't waste another minute doing what you don't want to do.
 
You asked...

eh009us said:
Anyway, the point is, anyone else feel this anxiety about getting into a big project like this ?
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Yes, and for all the reasons you stated and more. My main concern was "is this something I really want to do over the next several years?" As a test I bought a Steen Skybolt and disassembled it down to the frame. It took a couple of years to rebuild it (the typical 6 month project) to include recovering, paint etc. I did the standard dollar per airspeed calculations and determined the RV line was best. Another factor favoring the RV was that I didn't want to do another fabric stitch/knot and sure didn't want to do any fiberglass work (the RV builders are chuckling at that insider joke). Only you can tell if you possess the mechanical skills and they are not that onerous -and there is the option of help-for-hire.
Come on in, the waters fine.
Don
 
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Nothing ever worth having has ever come easy. Quit thinking and start doing. Commit to it or move on to something else and quit wasting your time and money. Only you can commit to it, only you can justify it, only you can want it. So, DO YOU?
Maybe a better way to look at it is this. When you are old and gray and lying on your deathbed are you going to be happy that you chose NOT to build and fly your own plane, or are you going to wish that you would have?
As for the anxiety, there is anxiety in any massive undertaking (and building is). But heck man, if you can fly a plane, you have already proven to yourself that you can manage anxiety. What are you afraid of:

1.) Not finishing? If you don't start you can't finish. Life may throw you curve balls you are not expecting. You can't help those. Manage them as they come and be aware they may take you out of the build. BUT you can't let that stop you because they MAY NOT happen.

2.) Not being able to afford it? If you have a job you can afford it. It may just take longer to build.

3.) Wanting another plane after you get started? Accept the fact that the grass is almost always greener on the other side. That doesn't mean its better for you. Pick the plane that suits the mission you intend to use it for. Don't pick a wild dream and try to build that.

4.) Its to much work? Then you may as well quit thinking about it because it is to much work. Buy a finished plane then.

Yoda...there is no try...do or do not.

Have fun building!

(Not trying to be harsh...just getting to the meat and potatoes).
 
I guess regarding buying a used -7 it defeats the purpose of homebuilt ownership for me. Can't inspect/maintain anything major on it. Might as well buy a Cherokee. Money isn't the issue, unless you're talking about a -10. Been doing the "what-if" dance in my head for a while, regarding which plane, etc. Being able to buy the kit in part is very appealing. Just need to git 'r done and set a schedule for myself. When I get to certain milestones in the build the motivation will come.
 
Good questions Ed. Seat, relax, dust off your trusty calculator then open Vans estimator one more time. Run the numbers then reread David Paule's and DanH posts in this very thread.

If you have more time then money build then.
 
You're not getting any younger..

Get on with it man! None of us are getting younger. It's better to have tried and failed than never to have tried (which is a failure in and of itself)..
 
You are not alone.

eh009us said:
Anyway, the point is, anyone else feel this anxiety about getting into a big project like this ? I suppose it's normal. This isn't nearly the biggest thing I've ever attempted for sure. I guess constant motivation would be the key for me. And to stop thinking so dam much. -E :confused::rolleyes:
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The best way to eat an elephant is one bite at a time. That's what keeps me going. If you start thinking about the whole project, it's easy to be overwhelmed. I do best when I focus on one little piece at a time. (Take it with a grain of salt, as I've yet to finish my project! :rolleyes:) The little victories are motivation to keep going. I can't describe how great it feels to solve the little puzzles and move on to the next thing. It's like learning to fly. And I've found that if I spend a whole lot of time worrying about how to do something, it's just wasted time because in the end I'll figure it out by getting my hands dirty and actually working on the part. (Or just post your question on this forum, and you'll have a lot of answers the same day!)

That said, if your heart is in the FLYING, take the advice posted here and go find one of those great deals out there on RV-6's. You can't build one for what they're selling for. Find a good A&P and let them do the annual, you can work on it & fiddle with it all you want during the rest of the year. It will fly so much nicer than any spam can ever will. There's no shame in buying one, lots of great airplanes need homes. My boyfriend just sold his kit and bought an -8. And his average mood is so much better now. :D
 
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My dad always used to tell people that you are just building parts, not an airplane. When the parts are all done you can put them together and have an airplane. He built clocks and steam engines from scratch with this same attitude. I get the overwhelmed feeling when I look at something complex, but then if I just figure out how to build on part, then the next, then the next it becomes manageable.

Priorities change too. I started an RV10 when they came out, it was the plane I wanted since before the -8 was out. However into the fuse I adopted a daughter and started thinking about where the priorities lied over the next few years. I sold the kit and only occasionally regret it. I do have our -4 to fly and know when the time is right I will get into it again (is it 12-13 that they start hating you?). There are a huge number of people that I talk to with the intent of building the plane to get the plane, but don't let that get in the way of the joy and experience of doing the building!
 
KatieB said:
The best way to eat an elephant is one bite at a time. That's what keeps me going. If you start thinking about the whole project, it's easy to be overwhelmed. I do best when I focus on one little piece at a time. (Take it with a grain of salt, as I've yet to finish my project! :rolleyes:) The little victories are motivation to keep going. I can't describe how great it feels to solve the little puzzles and move on to the next thing. It's like learning to fly. And I've found that if I spend a whole lot of time worrying about how to do something, it's just wasted time because in the end I'll figure it out by getting my hands dirty and actually working on the part. (Or just post your question on this forum, and you'll have a lot of answers the same day!)

That said, if your heart is in the FLYING, take the advice posted here and go find one of those great deals out there on RV-6's. You can't build one for what they're selling for. Find a good A&P and let them do the annual, you can work on it & fiddle with it all you want during the rest of the year. It will fly so much nicer than any spam can ever will. There's no shame in buying one, lots of great airplanes need homes. My boyfriend just sold his kit and bought an -8. And his average mood is so much better now. :D
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Yeah, what she said!!
 
eh009us said:
I guess regarding buying a used -7 it defeats the purpose of homebuilt ownership for me. Can't inspect/maintain anything major on it. Might as well buy a Cherokee. Money isn't the issue, unless you're talking about a -10. Been doing the "what-if" dance in my head for a while, regarding which plane, etc. Being able to buy the kit in part is very appealing. Just need to git 'r done and set a schedule for myself. When I get to certain milestones in the build the motivation will come.
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Nope, you buy a a flying RV and you can do ALL maintenance and inspection on it. You only need an A&P to endorse the logs for the condition inspection and an avionics shop for transponder/pitot checks.
 
The surprise for me was when I discovered how much I really enjoyed building. The afternoon after the DAR had departed, looking at the pink slip, I remember thinking, what the h*** am I going to do now - it's done! (I got over that.)

Semi serious - if you don't think you'd enjoy the building, then buy one and enjoy the flying. The great thing about experimental aircraft (E-AB) is that for maintenance & repair work you can hire it done or do it yourself - you need not hold a mechanic certificate nor the repairman certificate. (The repairman certificate gives only one specific privilege - the ability to sign off the condition inspection (http://ecfr.gpoaccess.gov/cgi/t/tex...iv8&view=text&node=14:2.0.1.1.4.5.1.3&idno=14)

For that matter, you might also consider finding a RV that needs a little TLC and / or upgrade.

Just $.02 more - good luck.

Dan
 
eh009us said:
Had several false starts on at least two -7 kits and a set of Bearhawk wings.
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Given this situation, I would vote for buying a flying RV. If you decide the RV is for you, then you can always build another if it suits your fancy. As already noted, you can modify, fix, maintain etc. any RV. The only thing you would not be able to do is the condition inspection.

my two cents.

greg
 
Greg Arehart said:
Given this situation, I would vote for buying a flying RV. If you decide the RV is for you, then you can always build another if it suits your fancy. As already noted, you can modify, fix, maintain etc. any RV. The only thing you would not be able to do is the condition inspection.

my two cents.

greg
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Anyone can do the condition inspection, just need an A&P for the logbook endorsement. Find an A&P that has confidence in your ability to maintain the plane and is willing to supervise the inspection.
 
ppilotmike said:
Get on with it man! None of us are getting younger. It's better to have tried and failed than never to have tried (which is a failure in and of itself)..
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It seems to me that the gentleman in question has indeed "tried and failed" on numerous previous occasions. In his own words: "Had several false starts on at least two -7 kits and a set of Bearhawk wings. I'll get into it.....then sell the project at a marginal loss".

Sounds to me like he'd be far better off buying rather than building.
 
No failures, Captain. Just learning experiences. Favorite quote so far "the best way to eat an elephant, one bite at a time". Perfect. Sums it up. I have no interest in buying a used kitplane. If something structural is going to fail, I'd rather it be something I did. Personal preference. There are some things you can't learn from other people's mistakes. Makes no sense to some, just my thing. I've made my living with my own two hands and on my own merits. I would rather keep it that way. Thanks for the continued input guys. Happy turkey-day. :)
 
eh009us said:
No failures, Captain. Just learning experiences.
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Yeh, but what you may possibly be "learning" Ed is that your real ambition is to be a flyer rather than a builder.

I come across many wannabe builders who are endlessly procrastinating about starting a project and ask my opinion. I always give them the same advice and it probably applies to you also. It's very simple. If you want to build because you're the sort of guy who drools at the thought of spending endless years playing with tools and doing your own thing in solitude out in your workshop...then go for it. But if you just want to fly, then it's best to buy. ;)
 
Sam Buchanan said:
Anyone can do the condition inspection, just need an A&P for the logbook endorsement. Find an A&P that has confidence in your ability to maintain the plane and is willing to supervise the inspection.
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Sam...

Do you have a reference to a reg that allows this? I was taught that the inspection was different from maintenance. For example, in the standard category world, the IA has to be the person doing the actual inspection - that cannot be delegated or supervised (as is the case with repair or maintenance). Similarly, in the experimental world, I thought the same concept applied to the condition inspection (must have the repairman certificate or A&P).

Dan
 
DanBaier said:
Sam...

Do you have a reference to a reg that allows this? I was taught that the inspection was different from maintenance. For example, in the standard category world, the IA has to be the person doing the actual inspection - that cannot be delegated or supervised (as is the case with repair or maintenance). Similarly, in the experimental world, I thought the same concept applied to the condition inspection (must have the repairman certificate or A&P).

Dan
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Dan, I will defer to Mel on this one, maybe he will jump in with details on the regs.

"Owner assisted annuals" are common in the certificated community. Guess it depends on how you define "supervise" and "assist".
 
Pick and Choose

Captain Avgas said:
......I come across many wannabe builders who are endlessly procrastinating about starting a project......I always give them the same advice and it probably applies to you....
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I resisted the temptation to add my 2? to this thread until I read Captain Avgas' response and similar to his thoughts upon reading your "just thinking out loud" post, am not inclined to tell you what you may want to hear.

First off, let me say that most people who are enthusiastic about all things RV tend to be naturally inclined to encourage anyone and everyone within ear shot or keystroke to go for it, eat an elephant, build on, or some other variation of a predictably common theme.

Despite what anyone suggests, seeing an aircraft project through to completion is an enormous years long undertaking. By its very nature, it demands a fundamental change in how you manage finances and daily life not just for now but for years to come. While I am reasonably assured you possess the basic skills and native intelligence to actually see a project through to completion, I am not at all convinced you possess the total and unrelenting commitment to make that life altering goal come to pass. You just don't seem to convey a deep down sense of "hunger" to me. Instant gratification comes to mind.

The way I interpret your comments, you do seem blessed with material advantage. You have the necessary tools and equipment, possess a to-die-for shop fitted with all the luxuries and amenities and the most important resource of all, a supportive wife. Starting out, most builders simply do not have all those coveted resources at their disposal. You do. Upon viewing an inspirational video or watching an RV fly overhead you are seemingly overwhelmed with a euphoric wave of motivation. In light of your past attempts at aircraft construction which by your reckoning includes at least 2 aborted RV projects, surely by now you know what the building challenge really involves and must also realize that cool videos and gee whiz flyovers provide an unsustainably brief "sugar rush" of enthusiasm. To go the distance, you are going to have to reach deeper, much deeper than that.

Who knows? You may ultimately go on to prove my opinion completely wrong. That would be a pleasant turn of events because by nature, I am an optimist. As a technical counselor, however, I am a realist and my opinion right or wrong has been formed by personal observation over the years. For now though, you and I can agree that for a variety of reasons, seeing an RV project through to completion is just not an endeavor that everyone can succeed at. So what? So what?

As our national day of Thanksgiving draws nigh, enjoy the many advantages you are already blessed with. I extend to you the very best of luck and wishes for great success satisfying whatever personal goals and aspirations you finally do decide to settle upon.
 
can you say...partnership?

Okay, I'm not a builder, so I'll just chime in with what seems to be a common theme or two.
1) people who build, say it was a life-changing experience; they found out things about themselves they didn't know before.
2) totally different tack; if you buy an RV-10 kit, and your new 'buddy'/partner buys an engine, and starts showing up at your shop every day, the outcome may be very different than your previous projects.
 
I struggled with similar doubts over my 13-year project. That's one reason it took so long. In order to build, I had sold my Yankee. No plane = no fly.

I guess I don't see much difference between you starting two RVs and quitting and me starting one and quitting ... and re-starting ... and quitting ...

I guess that's one of the blessings (to use a seasonally appropriate word choice) of the RV kits -- you can start one with minimal investment and decide at each step whether to continue or bail out. You bailed out. No shame there. Better than tying up thousands of dollars and hours of sweat and blood to end up unhappy with your choice.

Maybe a good solution for you would be to buy a used RV to satisfy your yearning to fly an RV while you start another empennage. Who knows ... you may decide to keep building.
 
eh009us said:
.

Anyway, the point is, anyone else feel this anxiety about getting into a big project like this ? I suppose it's normal. This isn't nearly the biggest thing I've ever attempted for sure. I guess constant motivation would be the key for me. And to stop thinking so dam much. -E :confused::rolleyes:
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The anxiety you feel with regard to building an airplane is not normal. The sometimes stated platitude that "anyone can build an airplane" is not true. Some personalities are not suited for it.

There is QB RV-8 kit for sale right now, it is 13 years old. How come after 13 years a QB is not completed and flying? Probably the guy was not suited to do it.

I respect people who deep sea dive or climb mountains, but I know it is not for me. Just thinking about it produces anxiety. Building an airplane does not. The fact that you started 2 projects and abandoned them is some evidence maybe building is not for you....I don't know. But I'd sure think about it from that perspective.
 
Build or not

Rick had a truly great answer on this one. I for one cannot tell you whether to undertake another project or not...you have to decide what you really want to do. Let me give you a little bit of my experience however.

I live in Alaska and learned to fly over 30 years ago. I have been a plane owner since 1986. Never been without one...currently have a Citabria that lives on wheels in the winter and floats in the summer. I have a remote cabin the screams for maintenance and play outdoors a lot. That said the winter week nights can be long, dark and cold up here. My normal routine was to go home and night and watch the boob tube...some times hit the health club.

In my youth I used to build plastic model airplanes...as an adult (some would challenge that) I build RC planes but rarely flew them. And I always wanted to build my own plane. One day I was looking at all the models I have hanging in my garage and decided that rather than spend another grand building a kit to hang from the celling I would take on the RV. All it took was turning off the TV...I still do all the other stuff but turning off the TV was worth at least 800 hours a year. And quess what? The wife likes working on it as well. She is a great riveter. The only dimples I have in the airframe are from my male friends who have helped.

Now my only real concern is that when I finish this one I will need to start the next...we were at Vans a month ago and the wife saw the RV10...ouch, but she says she will save the money for the engine...........

I have done some things in my life I wish I hadn't done...building an RV is not one of them...
 
Inspector MUST inspect!

DanBaier said:
Sam...
Do you have a reference to a reg that allows this? I was taught that the inspection was different from maintenance. For example, in the standard category world, the IA has to be the person doing the actual inspection - that cannot be delegated or supervised (as is the case with repair or maintenance). Similarly, in the experimental world, I thought the same concept applied to the condition inspection (must have the repairman certificate or A&P).
Dan
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Dan is correct on this. Maintenance may be delegated. Inspection may NOT!
On assisted annuals, the "assistant" may remove/replace panels, and even inspect the aircraft. But the "inspector" MUST inspect behind the assistant.
Regulations state that the "inspector" MUST inspect.
 
Building Buddy

Getting a building partner might be a motivational ploy for some. Like any long-term commitment, the other person can provide incentive or encouragement when you're down. I used to be in an airplane partnership for financial reasons. Now that I'm sole owner of one I sometime miss the friendship that went with the partnership. Needs, desires and focus can easily waiver over the years; a partnership can help level things out.
 
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