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FresnoR

FresnoR

Well Known Member
As manager of a small airport, and RV fan (really hoping to build one sooner rather than later), I would like to alert everyone who does not already know about the proposed regulations by the TSA, Large Aircraft Security Program, Other Aircraft Operator Security Program, and the Airport Security Program (LASP).

This is big, it will attempt to regulate the operations of private aircraft, warbirds and vintage aircraft, passengers, and pilots flying for personal or corporate use. At this point, it is limited to aircraft 12,500 pounds and over, but there is no doubt that number will be reduced as soon as the TSA needs a larger budget.

There is a huge movement to stop this by the AOPA, EAA, and other associations, please read into this, we need as many people to comment as possible. We were able to extend the comment deadline 60 days.

TSA Website:
http://www.tsa.gov/press/releases/2008/1009.shtm

EAA Warbirds info:
http://warbirds-eaa.org/index.html

EAA Article:
http://www.eaa.org/news/2008/2008-11-11_proposal.asp

AOPA Article:
http://www.aopa.org/advocacy/articles/2008/081009tsa.html
 
Sounds like a time to...

...alter your airport master record to state a weight limit of 12,000 pounds or so....:)

I'm going to propose this to our Airpark. Other airpark residents might consider the same thing.
 
Kill the DRAGON! KILL the DRAGON!!!

az_gila said:
...alter your airport master record to state a weight limit of 12,000 pounds or so....:)
Click to expand...

Gil, that might keep the dragon away for awhile, but in light of what he originally posted, i.e.,

"...At this point, it is limited to aircraft 12,500 pounds and over, but there is no doubt that number will be reduced as soon as the TSA needs a larger budget..."


...time might be better spent trying to slay the dragon.

We all need to be members of EAA and AOPA (even if we don't agree with everything they do) and we also need to let our Congressmen and Senators know how we feel.

As Barney Fife used to say, we need to "NIP IT! NIP IT! NIP IT!"

Don
 
You can comment to the Feds on this potential reg here:
http://tinyurl.com/6oo5cm
I was #34 about 3 weeks ago. But it does not seem to do much good.

Here is a new reg the feds DHS/CBP put into affect today. You now need permission to both leave and enter the US, and it has to be done electronically, a manifest to include each person, etc etc
http://www.dhs.gov/xnews/releases/pr_1226943273725.shtm

Sigh. Flying is getting more difficult if you want to go to backcountry strips north or south of the US. The way they define "United States" this reg includes trips from the lower 48 to Alaska and back.
 
It does not just affect 12,500 lb airplanes

As I understand it this affects all airports where these aircraft operate and thus all people and aircraft will be subject to the "filter" in whatever form it takes. The presence of that kind of controlling authority will impact everyone and all aircraft at airports where 12,500 lb aircraft operate. When the government management structure and workforce is employed to implement the new laws nothing will limit the power growth. Reduction of the freedom to fly will be the natural mission of the implementing organization.

Bob Axsom
 
I totally agree...

..it needs to be fought, and the dragon slain.

My thought was to exempt private airports (our Airpark) in the short term to give some breathing room -- until TSA realize there are other runways they don't control....:rolleyes:

A weight limit note in the Airport Master Record is the "Controlling Authority" - just to prevent them catching you in their filter.

rv7boy said:
Gil, that might keep the dragon away for awhile, but in light of what he originally posted, i.e.,

"...At this point, it is limited to aircraft 12,500 pounds and over, but there is no doubt that number will be reduced as soon as the TSA needs a larger budget..."


...time might be better spent trying to slay the dragon.

We all need to be members of EAA and AOPA (even if we don't agree with everything they do) and we also need to let our Congressmen and Senators know how we feel.

As Barney Fife used to say, we need to "NIP IT! NIP IT! NIP IT!"

Don
Click to expand...
 
regulates airports and operators

It will regulate airports that are considered "reliever" airports, and will regulate all operators with aircraft over the 12,500 lb threshold (this also includes warbirds that give rides at air shows). This will include:

-All crews and pilots to go through an extensive FBI background and fingerprint check
-All passengers to be compared against the terrorist watch list through the TSA
-TSA-Approved security plan
-Third-party audit of that plan 6 months after TSA approval and every 2 years thereafter
-an in-house security coordinator, being provided initial and recurrent training

Imagine how this can affect the economics and sustainability of the small business in the general aviation industry?
 
backdoor to user fees

The TSA will not do all the checking they will require for free - they already charge about 7 USD per trip. Get ready for more ridiculous costs and hassle.

If the government is going to mandate something stupid like this, they need to open it up to competition. Give the specifications for the checks that need to be done, and let either the airlines or other private companies have space at the airport to do the required checks. As soon as you set up a monopoly, we the people will get ripped off.

I am really disappointed that there are so few elected officials with the courage to stand up and decry this whole TSA charade as nothing more than security theatre. I guess we the sheeple are to blame, since we seem to just keep accepting it. :mad:
 
TSA and you

In reading the thread on the TSA and 12,500 lb airplanes, I began to wonder if it is me or all pilots that always seem to get singled out for special care.

I don't buy one way tickets or pay cash for my two way tickets, yet almost a flight never goes by when I don't get special screening, my bag is checked for explosives, and/or my checked bags get picked through.

Does this happen to other pilots who travel commercial airlines for business?

The only thing that I can think of that might trigger such special care, besides posting on this forum, is possibly my concealed carry permit.

(OK, moderators, if you are going to delete this note too, give me the courtesy of letting me know why?)
 
N941WR said:
In reading the thread on the TSA and 12,500 lb airplanes, I began to wonder if it is me or all pilots that always seem to get singled out for special care.

I don't buy one way tickets or pay cash for my two way tickets, yet almost a flight never goes by when I don't get special screening, my bag is checked for explosives, and/or my checked bags get picked through.

Does this happen to other pilots who travel commercial airlines for business?)
Click to expand...

I've never been singled out for special screening since I became a pilot 7 years ago.
 
special Screening

N941WR said:
In reading the thread on the TSA and 12,500 lb airplanes, I began to wonder if it is me or all pilots that always seem to get singled out for special care.

I don't buy one way tickets or pay cash for my two way tickets, yet almost a flight never goes by when I don't get special screening, my bag is checked for explosives, and/or my checked bags get picked through.

Does this happen to other pilots who travel commercial airlines for business?

The only thing that I can think of that might trigger such special care, besides posting on this forum, is possibly my concealed carry permit.

(OK, moderators, if you are going to delete this note too, give me the courtesy of letting me know why?)
Click to expand...

I average about 60 flights a year with about 10 to 12 of them international. Many of my flights are one way or disjointed because I'm on a corporate leg between the airline ones. I think the last time I got special screening was a couple of years ago as a random check.

Question - Have you ever given them a hard time or been cought with anything prohibited ? That will get you on their "hassle every time" list.

The stupidity of the deal is your boarding pass will have SSSS on it triggering the inspection before you ever get to security. What bad guy seeing that would go ahead an try to get something through? I don't think the folks making the TSA rules and procedures are rocket scientist material. :rolleyes:

My opinion is the whole TSA thing is to make the un-washed masses comfortable and would do little to stop a wise person bent on doing harm and thinking about all those virgins. Just my VHO.

Don
 
Bill R.
I suspect you had or still have a very small amount of "residue" on your clothes, on your bag, or did at one time on a previous check. Now you become a victim every time, because of the flag set on your file...

The only time I've been pulled aside for more screening was when I was late for a flight. I ran quite a bit, trying to make up time in the parking garage etc. I was winded and perspiring, so I understood completely. Once in a while I get the SSSS boarding pass, but very, very infrequently. I figure that is just a roll of the dice.
 
dhammer said:
Question - Have you ever given them a hard time or been cought with anything prohibited ? That will get you on their "hassle every time" list.
Click to expand...
Don,

Good question but the answer is no, I have been very careful to be level headed with all airport personel, from the lady behind the checkin counter, to the flight attendents. After all, they are just doing their job.

flyer46 said:
Bill R.
I suspect you had or still have a very small amount of "residue" on your clothes, on your bag, or did at one time on a previous check. Now you become a victim every time, because of the flag set on your file...
Click to expand...
Possible but unlikely. The one residue test my carry on was given (that I know about) was done while I was standing there and it was negative. I asked the lady some questions about what she was doing, how it worked etc. She was very informative and I was very courteous.

BTW, the reason I posted this thread drifting question here was because I tried to post it three different times as its own thread but the moderators kept deleting it for some odd reason.
 
On "the" list

I was on the TSA Don't Fly List for about two years. It was a major pain, I couldn't do curbside check in, self check in at a self serve kiosk or online check in. Every time I flew (and I was flying back to Boston from LAX once a month for 2 years) I had to check in at the counter. And 1/2 the time I did this they had to make a phone call to clear me to board the flight.

After about 6 months of this one of the gate agents told me I was on "the list" and that I should check the TSA website for how I could clear my name. It took just over two years to get off that list.

What happened was my travel department had me booked on three flights, all leaving from Boston Logan, all one ways, all within about 15 minutes of each other. I was chanigng plans while on this trip, so I had a flight to DC, JFK and LAX booked. It raised a flag and got me on "the list".

So if you make a bunch of changes to your travel plans make sure those old tickets get canceled!
 
Just a reminder from a moderator folks - this site isn't for generic aviation discussions, or political debate. It's for RV-related material. While I am sympathetic to the idea that we need people to comment to the TSA on this proposal, this isn't the place to do it.
 
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