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Having read the AOPA thread, I'm most concerned by the lack of direction and some downright hopelessness amongst the respondees. There seems to be a general feeling that it's too late and we've already lost. While there was some call to action, much of it was intended solely for the pilot's community in the form of protest or civil disobedience. My own feeling, while I have no idea exactly how to proceed, is that we need to expand the community to all the population in an effort to eliminate TSA entirely from our government. We have somehow perverted our fear of terrorism into actually sponsoring our own terrorists against us. To me, it seems that the 'war on terror' should apply to them, too.
 
Sounds like we'll end up filing the NASA form for every landing away from home base. Let 'em choke on their own paperwork.
 
The TSA needs to go. I will deliver this message to every person elected to represent me at every level. Further, I will do what I can to make any encounter I might have with TSA personnel as unpleasant as possible. One thought: Take pictures of TSA employees (like the four who attended the Montrose meeting) and post them at airports, post offices, and on the internet with names and what they intend to do!

It has been my dream for years to build an airplane and fly it around the USA. Go where I want, on my schedule. I am not going to let this die without a fight.
 
I don't get it, what exactly are they saying. I can't fly into and land at any airport without a pre-BOUGHT badge and security screening at EACH airport? Because that eliminates 75% of all airports in southern Cali.
 
Secret laws?

I just don't get how we as a country can allow secret laws, fines, and jail time stand!?

More and more I think the DHS sounds like the SS. :(

I love my country but I don't trust my government!

It kind of makes me wonder about the government wanting to put GPS devices on all of our cars so they can tax us by the miles we drive. Talk about Big Brother!
 
It's a fact!

Today I landed at KMTJ airport and sure enough, a pretty girl came out to greet us, well not really... she was the escort that is now required at that airport to make sure that I wasn't Muhammad? I guess. She stayed within several feet of us the whole time. Of course, she had no idea who I was, or where I was going. She was only concerned with following us from our RV to the FBO lobby and then later, from the lobby back to our aircraft. It's getting scary out there, bordering psychotic. Is Oshkosh going to be cancelled?
 
Did she have a wedding ring on? If not I should fly there to corroborate your experience. Did you go to the Jet Center or Black Canyon?
 
OSHKOSH

Oshkosh has not had airline service for several years. Appleton handles considerable overflow parking for Oshkosh and it will probably be a disaster if this insanity continues.
 
Jeff B said:
Today I landed at KMTJ airport and sure enough, a pretty girl came out to greet us, well not really... she was the escort that is now required at that airport to make sure that I wasn't Muhammad? I guess. She stayed within several feet of us the whole time. Of course, she had no idea who I was, or where I was going. She was only concerned with following us from our RV to the FBO lobby and then later, from the lobby back to our aircraft. It's getting scary out there, bordering psychotic. Is Oshkosh going to be cancelled?
Click to expand...

At that point, I would start walking around, looking at the other planes, as I always do. I wonder how long she would follow me around?
 
One other thought, as I try to get my head around this issue.

It is my understanding that "selective enforcement" of a law is illegal. In other words, a give law or regulation has to be enforced the same for everyone, those based at those airports and transients.

(A friend got out of a hefty fine back when the Mode-C rule read that aircraft with engine driven electrical systems and based w/in a mode-C veil had to have a Mode-C transponder. His attorney argued, successfully, that a transient pilot could fly inside the veil w/o a mode-C transponder.

His case was tossed out and the regulation changed the next year. Oh, and he bought a Mode-C transponder.)
 
Get on em'

E-mail all your Federal officeholders and tell them TSA is a farce and a drain on better used resources. These tactics won't stand the light. I can almost guarantee your Senators & Reps fly into 121 Airports in Part 91 or 135 Aircraft. Tell them how it will affect them & their families when they fly into these little 121 Airports. If they really understand, they will probably side with us GA people.
 
My home base (KLZU) has a tiny scheduled service (two flights a day). That service puts us under this draconian and unamerican plan. It seems ridiculous that such a small operation would effect the other hundreds of airplanes based there.
 
NASA report, nothing really to do with the TSA. If you think you can blast your way through/around something the TSA has decided to do you are going to get your you know what handed to you. That being said they get on a roll and then have to rework unworkable plans.

The airlines have seen their customers avoid flying for several reasons one of which is the abuse the TSA imposes on the passengers. The airlines are not able to dictate to the TSA what makes you think GA can? GA can either try to work with them or find themselves on the losing end of a fight. And it will be winner take all. So before anyone goes off half cocked and makes the situation very bad for all of us I suggest you check your ego and puffed out chest. If you don't it will get real ugly as they show you who's the boss on this one.

The places we get to go in our RV's could get really small really fast:(
 
asav8tor said:
... GA can either try to work with them or find themselves on the losing end of a fight. And it will be winner take all. So before anyone goes off half cocked and makes the situation very bad for all of us I suggest you check your ego and puffed out chest. If you don't it will get real ugly as they show you who's the boss on this one.

The places we get to go in our RV's could get really small really fast:(
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But doing nothing / working with them is akin to what happened in Germany prior to WW II. No one there thought it would get to the point it did.

The point is, if you don't fight it, you are allowing them to go against what our Constitution and Bill of Rights stand for.

Just the thought of secret laws that you can't defend yourself against sends chills up and down my spine.

When a government is afraid of the people it governs, it has lost the right to govern.
 
No one should be surprised by this. The "secret directives" started with having to show ID to board commercial aircraft some years ago. This was opposed by EFF and others. Most people ridiculed EFF and felt it totally acceptable to show ID to get on a commercial aircraft, never mind that there isn't any security in having a name on a ticket match a (possibly fake) ID. However, that wasn't the point - it was that the regulation requiring the ID was secret. Along with the "no fly list", again, a secret regulation.

Restricting GA access is just another step along that same path. Nobody should be surprised that the TSA is moving in that direction. Outraged, sure, but not surprised.

I see this has having some backlash against small airports that want to have commercial service. If getting commercial service means giving up GA service, some airports will say "no thanks."

TODR
 
Ok folks - worthy topic, but let's not engage in political rhetoric - you won't fight the TSA here (on VAF) no matter how honorable your intentions! Bring this to the attention of those in charge (Congress and the Administration) - if you don't do that, this thread serves no useful purpose.

Paul
 
Well said.

Ironflight said:
Ok folks - worthy topic, but let's not engage in political rhetoric - you won't fight the TSA here (on VAF) no matter how honorable your intentions! Bring this to the attention of those in charge (Congress and the Administration) - if you don't do that, this thread serves no useful purpose.

Paul
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TSA will only take notice of dissent through the appropriate channels. Make your objections known through your Senator, Congressman, Mayor, Governor- include the "POTUS". Join AOPA and pressure them to lobby more forcefully. EAA Chapters and flying clubs need to do the same. TSA is on an insidious path with this action. If this legislation was to be passed, then coupled with "User Fees", the future for GA would be grim. Oh - and what's the answer to the conundrum - Will it make us safer?

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act"
George Orwell.
 
TSA GA regs

Am I reading this right??????? ( silly Canadian here!)

IF you have a little badge, you can stroll around said airfield unescorted?

...ever see the 'ROckford files' where Jim prints up business cards in the back of his Firebird?....ditto the 'Official Security Cards'.
The 'bad guys' will have a trunk-full of them before you can say 'colour photocopier; why do the feds think they can save us from the evil world with fences and ID badges.?
The old adage was never more true......'the more you tighten your grip, the more slips through your fingers' ( Princess Leia? )

OH, we are not immune from stupidity here either, some might say we invented it. I have to write a 3- page Airside Vehicle Operators Permit that TESTs whether I know that I should not run my car into a plane, nor let it be run into by a plane. Duhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!


sorry guys, time to write your elected officials........again!...and again....and again. ( do we do much else?!)
 
flybye said:
TSA will only take notice of dissent through the appropriate channels. Make your objections known through your Senator, Congressman, Mayor, Governor- include the "POTUS". Join AOPA and pressure them to lobby more forcefully. EAA Chapters and flying clubs need to do the same. TSA is on an insidious path with this action. If this legislation was to be passed, then coupled with "User Fees", the future for GA would be grim. Oh - and what's the answer to the conundrum - Will it make us safer?
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I agree that they will only respond to "official channels". However, this appears to be a secret directive, so we can't even be sure that we know what rules we are violating! Do pressure your elected officials and use whatever group you feel appropriate that will help protect our right to fly and keep us out of the brig.

TODR
 
<<Bring this to the attention of those in charge (Congress and the Administration) >>

Does this directive have an official title, something by which it can be identified in a conversation with an elected official?
 
According to an AOPA thread it is: SD 1542-04-08F

U.S. DEPARTMENT OF HOMELAND SECURITY
Transportation Security Administration

Aviation Security Directive Advisory

Subject: Security Threat Assessment and Reporting Requirements Related to Individuals with Airport-Issued Identification Media

Number: SD 1542-04-08F Date: December 10, 2008
 
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TSA

Ron Lee said:
According to an AOPA thread it is: SD 1542-04-08F

U.S. DEPARTMENT OF HOMELAND SECURITY
Transportation Security Administration

Aviation Security Directive Advisory

Subject: Security Threat Assessment and Reporting Requirements Related to Individuals with Airport-Issued Identification Media

Number: SD 1542-04-08F Date: December 10, 2008
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I had no results bringing this up with google or the TSA websites. Guess I'll have to dig further.

My elected officials are already tired of hearing from me, but they're gonna hear more.
 
They started up the new "inspection" machine at KSLC International today.
You get a choice. Stand before a machine which shows your body shape with no clothes, or remove metal objects and get patted down, as if you're getting arrested. :(

L.Adamson
 
I think the proper action there is to use the machine. But then, in my case, that would be punishment for them... ;)
 
This might be a local action only, specific to MTJ for unspecified reasons (which in itself isn't too cool). The fact that TSA was there leads me to think they're possibly setting up for a local program to enforce more strict guidelines for that airport - kinda like KJAC had for VP Cheney who flew out of there alot since Jackson was his home.

At KJAC the security was so tight we actually had one of our own (United Airlines) ramp employees who was flying with us for a family trip arrested and escorted off the jet in cuffs simply because she didn't go through screening. Heck, she worked there! We all vouched for her but it didn't matter to them. Sad, sad day.

I can only HOPE this is a local program for some "super-secret" reason. Might have to do with the new team in Washington and their travel needs, who knows. Wishful thinking....
 
.....

I have worked at MTJ both at Western Skyways engine shop, and the FBO Black Canyon Jet Center. And just at the jet center this January 3 at one time, i counted 23 aircraft parked and waiting to take off. Some were commercial ,but most were private chartered business jets. I can't imagine what it would be like for the charted services to have their pilots have a badge to land at the airports that their customer want to land at. And then have an escort to accompany the passengers to and from the aircraft. There most certainly was not an employee from the FBO available to do it because we were all running around pumping thousands of gallons of fuel, both for the airlines and the GA sector. This would be an economic nightmare for the town of Montrose. Loads of money is brought into the region through that airport and this would kill the surrounding ski resorts!
 
A little bit of positive news.

While the LASP rules the TSA had open for comments is not the same as what's being discussed here, Aviationweek just posted a promising article http://www.aviationweek.com/aw/gene...ght Against BizAv Security Rule&channel=busav

There are some congress-critters mentioned in there that look like they are on the side of GA - now we have some names to email for some support. Couldn't hurt.

AOPA also has a story posted online with a letter by Bennie Thompson, D-Miss - chairman of the House Committee on Homeland Security. Not sure if you need to be an AOPA member or not to read the link at : http://www.aopa.org/advocacy/articles/2009/090309thompson.html?WT.mc_id=ebrief
 
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Does anybody have a list of our congressmen that are pilots?

A well placed complaint to the folks that can do something is where I would start. Give me a list and I'll send each one a letter.

All it takes if for one of these folks to get peaved about their favorite thing to do and watch out for who steps up on the soapbox.
 
Webb said:
Does anybody have a list of our congressmen that are pilots?

A well placed complaint to the folks that can do something is where I would start. Give me a list and I'll send each one a letter.

All it takes if for one of these folks to get peaved about their favorite thing to do and watch out for who steps up on the soapbox.
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Right around the election AOPA had an article I believe that had all the congressmen that are pilots or aviation friendly. I'll see if I can dig it up.
 
Patrick Kelley got it right!

flion said:
Having read the AOPA thread, I'm most concerned by the lack of direction and some downright hopelessness amongst the respondees. There seems to be a general feeling that it's too late and we've already lost. While there was some call to action, much of it was intended solely for the pilot's community in the form of protest or civil disobedience. My own feeling, while I have no idea exactly how to proceed, is that we need to expand the community to all the population in an effort to eliminate TSA entirely from our government. We have somehow perverted our fear of terrorism into actually sponsoring our own terrorists against us. To me, it seems that the 'war on terror' should apply to them, too.
Click to expand...

I could not have said it better. Try to fly an RV in Spain if you need an example of where misguided nonsense can lead. All of us want to be safe, but when the cost inhibits our ability to exercise our constitutional, hard fought for rights, we have gone too far.

If we're concerned about the future of aviation & AV GAS, this business seems a h***uva lot worse.
 
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What this looks like to me is a new agency trying to 'find itself.' They're going to overreach, overstep, and otherwise try to justify much more of the Federal budget than they deserve. They're going to keep charging and barking until they run out of chain or somebody up high, at the request of all of us citizens, pulls a Dog Whisperer on them and makes them sit down and be good. I don't mind a Federal agency charged with enforcing uniform standards for transportation security, because frankly, some of the airport 'security' I've experienced in the past was unbelievably sloppy. What I do mind is an agency with no clear mandate and zero accountability or oversight, so mired in political wrangling that it is worse than ineffective at its original reason for existing.

However, if TSA went away tomorrow, I wouldn't shed a tear.
 
As far as TSA secrecy is concerned, in 135 ops, the crew can get in big trouble for revealing the script of that particular act in the big play of "security theater".

TSA in a nutshell: Basically its much easier to put your thumb on an honest citizen and squash liberty, then it is go out and find real bad guys.

This and more is coming to YOU if you don't do what Paul says and write your representatives.
 
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